New site design

[yeagermeister]

Yeagermeister - Daniel has stated why in this post. While I appreciate your views might be at odds with his, there is an explanation there so claims to the contrary are incorrect.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

I think it's speaking to a demographic that doesn't exist. Cycling enthusiasts are reading your site. I doubt you've got readers stumbling onto the site just browsing the web and seeing race results is what brings them in. Cycling is what brings them in. If results are all people wanted there are plenty of places for them to go. Now I can't get to the coverage, or any other news or tech reports.

Again- my point is that cycling "news" is not like other news, and it's not available all over the world on TV.

Keep the spoilers, lose a lot of your fan base. It's like Cyclingnews has a focus group here (and a pretty large and interested one), yet you've already made the decisions. I hope all your new readers are completely unlike your old ones.

 

[Greg Johnson]

Greg Johnson, you have not addressed any key issues here.
Spoilers should be removed at ONCE. We aren't asking, we DEMAND it.
Why did you have to ruin this site?
It was so much easier to navigate.
It had more depth too.
I hate the mini articles that now take up a tiny left-hand side column.
Was this solely to make more room for ads??
Please take a vacation or something so you don't ruin the entire tour de france coverage.

TShame, aah I see. You're another one of these people.

You clearly haven't read every word in the 63 pages of this thread as I have - so frankly I don't really feel I have anything to respond to here. There's no more advertising on the current website than the one you were happy with a week ago - the only advertising changes made to Cyclingnews since Future Publishing's purchase of the website occurred six months ago to the previous website, so this sudden outrage at an advertising land grab is baseless, at best.

I have addressed several key issues, many repeatedly so. I suggest you read over my responses in this topic to get a better feel for my role in this process, before you go claiming I'll be destroying Cyclingnews' Tour de France coverage.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[TShame]

I did not say there were more ads, I said there was more room for ads.

But as you refused to answer, only asking me to read 63 pages of forum....


Here is my reply..

Instead of reading all of that I will just take the time to switch to eurosports or dailypeloton or something.

 

[Contralamontre]

It is obvious to me....

...that no thought whatsoever was given to the catastrophic results from allowing a low level web company to ruin a high quality and high traffic site. Or maybe it was a group of students?

If anyone has shares in Future Publishing sell them now before they are worthless. Knapp Communications must be cringing when they see how this lot have screwed it up.

 

[Greg Johnson]

Guys,

An update on what will come in today's roll out. There's two main features that will change - the first is the removal of 'show more' on results, so results will show in full on the first instance as with the previous website. The second is Really Simple Syndication (RSS) feeds will be added to the live website.

There are some other smaller issues that will be addressed: Softening of links underline, link colour consistency, removal of double captions on photos and some fixes to text displaying oddly due to CSS issues.

One other important note - you'll have seen me mention that there's several issues in the race sections which has led to a major overhaul. The code for this overhaul has been complete but we won't be releasing it today. This needs a significant amount of testing to avoid a repeat of the issues we've had with the current system, so it will be made public over coming days. I will keep you informed on this and other coming changes as they arrive.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

 

[Domingo]

Greg,

Yes there's been an answer, just not an acceptable one for many people. I understand you're a news site, but there's certain news that can be waited for. The BBC here in the UK (arguably one of the biggest news providers in the world) warn people in their Saturday evening news broadcasts that the football results are about to be put on the screen. This enables people who have avoided /don't know the results to watch Match of the Day, the football highlights show that follows, "as live". So there is a precedent. Major news providers can meet customers expectations without compromising their lofty news journalism creed.

This all leads me though to believe that CN have seriously misunderstood what people used the CN site for. Don't know what the your governance structure is but I think there is a business skills gap somewhere.

Martin

 

[wdymtlrt]

[EDIT] posted before I saw Gregs last post

Dear Greg, Stefan…

I have to admit, that I never thought about the old CN as "good design", I only notice how good it was, now that it is gone.
But I will try to be constructive with suggestions for the new one.
Many points were mentioned before, but you didn't comment on (or I missed it).

Citing Greg Johnson:
"We're listening to constructive feedback and making changes based on that. Some aspects we cannot change - like simply going back to the old website. We've welcomed feedback in the context of a new website with open arms, so far have only had to make one unpopular decision (spoilers) and continue to welcome feedback."

So we can await the unnecessary flash-carousel to disappear? It adds much to the cluttered and confusing look of the page. I don’t care whether everybody else has it or not. It is useless. Or will this be the second unpopular decision?
To the Spoilers: As requested before, make it possible to access at the live reports without. A bookmark able and spoiler free site. Maybe a tab "live reports". Can't be that complicated.
I personally have no problem with the spoilers, but I would prefer to read the stage numbers first: "Stage 5: Albasini king of Serfaus" instead of "Albasini king of Serfaus (Stage 5)".
What about all the underlining, it can't be so complicated to remove that? That is why you wanted a new CMS after all.
Full results (you say you're working on it, thanks)
Complete set of next, previous, related etc. bottoms with the photos (it seems you're trying) and also with the news (edition and single) on top and bottom.
Place the news editions more prominent. It is what you read to know you’re not missing anything.
I like the text above (and under) the photos, was it meant or an accident?
Bottom of the site: "Forums" should be a link, too. "About us" and "Contact" are missing.
I would prefer a warmer colour, really don't like this bluish appearance, will not get used to it.
Visited link colour (you fixed that, thanks) is to bright now.
Two columns are enough.
The "race history", of the TdS at least, is hardly readable.

Think about a list with a status for each point, maybe in the crew thread.
That will stop at least me repeating the same points.

 

[djhusc]

New website sucks!!!

I've used CN for years and referred others to it for the easiest, most straight forward, accurate procycling website. Now it sucks, way too much clicking around to find anything. Also, you deleted manythigns or atleast I can't find them and I'm tired of looking. Even your search can't find them.

Calander, startlists, contact info. I'm done with CN. PEZ, Velonews, here I come. What a bunch of fools!

 

[Greg Johnson]

Greg,

Yes there's been an answer, just not an acceptable one for many people. I understand you're a news site, but there's certain news that can be waited for.

Martin

G'day Martin,

As I mentioned in my post on the last page to James Jordan, I completely understand the reasons yourself (I presume) and others don't consider it acceptable. It's an emotive bond and that one aspect you feel so strongly about is changing has a huge impact on that bond.

But what I'm saying is that this is the reason that has been given by the person who made the decision. That same person is very busy overseeing the other changes that we're making to the website as a result of all this great feedback - but I'm sure at some point he'll get the chance to comment further.

Again, I encourage people to continue giving feedback on aspects of the website that I can assist with and work to have improved for you.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

 

[agaler]

Greg,

The BBC here in the UK (arguably one of the biggest news providers in the world) warn people in their Saturday evening news broadcasts that the football results are about to be put on the screen. This enables people who have avoided /don't know the results to watch Match of the Day, the football highlights show that follows, "as live". So there is a precedent.

Martin

The BBC don't do that any more on the TV news I think you'll find. The precedent isn't relevant anyway as on the BBC Sport website they do give "spoilers" and its impossible to view the online version Match of Day from the BBC website, without seeing the score, headlines etc.

 

[arrhythmia rules]

Flash & more

The flash headlines on the home page are just a waste of space. They may attract attention but they do not allow a mouse click to open a new tab. It gets worse. I want to read the piece on Ann Gripper. It is nowhere to be found. Makes a complete waste of space and creates time wasting and frustration.

On the previous site I could read the strap lines on the days news, decide whether to open it and have all the pieces on one tab, easy. Now I may have several tabs. Either there is now less news or older bits are mixed in with newer pieces so I have to look and ask "have I read that". So altogether less easy to use, much less easy to use.

On the race pages where are the maps and profiles, essential for any stage report and live report. How about links to the main results sections at the end of the race report eg mountains, team, overall? Save the scrolling down.

I started with Velo news then came to cyclingnews because it was easy to navigate and the fitness articles were particularly good. They have gone, the new layout is fiddly to say the least. So I will be checking out Velonews again and using Pez much more. Now Pez is good, simple layout with well written articles. Re read the article on Biomac shoes. It is appallingly written. Shame because the mid sole position is well worth checking out.

That will do for now.

 

[Domingo]

Thanks Greg,

I appreciate the respone. I guess we'll never agree on this one.

Martin

 

[Domingo]

I don't watch MOTD online - I'm usually in front of the TV with my laptop turned off so spoilers on the BBC website don't get in the way for me. And yes, they do still do it.

 

[Greg Johnson]

So we can await the unnecessary flash-carousel to disappear? It adds much to the cluttered and confusing look of the page. I don’t care whether everybody else has it or not. It is useless. Or will this be the second unpopular decision?

All of Future Publishing's websites have this feature, so it will remain as company policy. It's an important feature in the presentation of technical and feature content - in particular - on the website.

I personally have no problem with the spoilers, but I would prefer to read the stage numbers first: "Stage 5: Albasini king of Serfaus" instead of "Albasini king of Serfaus (Stage 5)".

You stole my idea! Yes, this has been put forward and accepted. It will be happening.

What about all the underlining, it can't be so complicated to remove that? That is why you wanted a new CMS after all.
Full results (you say you're working on it, thanks)

There are changes to underlining, possibly removal for some spots. It requires some tinkering and trying things to see what works, but yes, it's bing worked on.

Full results will change today, so that's a done deal.

Complete set of next, previous, related etc. bottoms with the photos (it seems you're trying) and also with the news (edition and single) on top and bottom.

This ties in with the overhaul of race sections, as this is where galleries are most often used. But yes, these things are happening.

Place the news editions more prominent. It is what you read to know you’re not missing anything.

As individual news items are more current than editions, which follow at set times each day (or will, when the script is finished - they are currently manually built) it makes sense for the individual items to come first.

I like the text above (and under) the photos, was it meant or an accident?

Above was an accident, below is intentional. Therefore above will be removed, below will remain.

Bottom of the site: "Forums" should be a link, too. "About us" and "Contact" are missing.

Thanks on the forums. The other I've just taken over responsibility for, so I'll get into it.

I would prefer a warmer colour, really don't like this bluish appearance, will not get used to it.

The background colour?

Visited link colour (you fixed that, thanks) is to bright now.

Thanks for your feedback. I'd like to hear from more people on this? I asked the question yesterday but only had one response.

Two columns are enough.

I've seen some discussion on this front. Not sure what the outcome will be, but they're seeing if anything can be done - either by removing a column of better utalising the space that's there.

The "race history", of the TdS at least, is hardly readable.

This has already been reported and will be addressed. It's not as high as other things on the list of changes, but is on there and will happen.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[wdymtlrt]

The background colour?

I've seen some discussion on this front. Not sure what the outcome will be, but they're seeing if anything can be done - either by removing a column of better utalising the space that's there.

Thanks for answering so quick.

The whole site contains a lot of different kinds of blue. Gives me a cold impression.
But I don't think you can satifiy everybody with this, unless you introduce "mycyclingnews" with different themes to choose.
Maybe you let your readers vote on different colour schemes, when the more urgent issues are solved.

I'd prefer removing the third column.

cheers

 

[metalslaw]

One word sums up my feelings on the new site (and I have never used the word by itself on a forum..... such is my dissapointment at the new site)

FAIL

Regards,
Ian

/\ Yes, I signed up today, just to express my discontent. The old site was perfect. Please give us an option to view the old site. /\

 

[hulkgogan]

All of Future Publishing's websites have this feature, so it will remain as company policy. It's an important feature in the presentation of technical and feature content - in particular - on the website.

Hi Greg, sorry you're the face of all this. The statement above doesn't sit well for a bunch of reasons beyond a crappy carousel widget. Mostly because it's corporate speak masquerading as fact. What it says is that Future wants to consolidate all its assets as the same brand. While it implies good stuff like efficiency, and economies of scale, this is a red herring as there are none in this case, and instead speaks to the true corporate mind space of consolidation as power and control.

It's also ***, like Harley Davidson buying Ducati then wanting to make all their bikes choppers.

The value of a brand is it's uniqueness. Commodifying a brand essentially destroys it. That's pretty self-evident and non-controversial. Yet the corporate world makes these mistakes over and over again despite knowing better. Like I said, it's not about business as everyone thinks, but ego. Why else would essentially nonsensical statement get passed off as good business?

Why have you done this? "Because all our other sites do this"

There is a rational reason behind this, just don't expect it to be an economic one.

 

[SlowBikeRacer]

Article Layout - Loose the middle column of unused stuff

CyclingNews Editors,
This should be easy to do...

On Latest Edition - Move the "Edition Archives" controll to the bottom of the page. Then widen the Latest Edition to 2 Columns wide so we can read it on a Laptop.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/editions/latest-edition-cycling-news-thursday-june-18-2009

Race Article Results
http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/73rd-tour-de-suisse-2009-upt/stages/stage-5/report
Move the Send/Share/Print to the bottom of the page. Widen the article to two columns. Right now the results wrap and are unreadable. This used to be one the best things of CyclingNews.

Please post when done so we know when to come back to CyclingNews...

Until then...

Also, Stop Moving Posts.

 

[ihatescarves]

All of Future Publishing's websites have this feature, so it will remain as company policy. It's an important feature in the presentation of technical and feature content - in particular - on the website.

The first sentence seems to sum up the reason for so many of the changes that people don't like - a directive from management for a consistent look across the company's web sites, regardless of whether it suits the site or its readers. People come to the site to read news, yet this abomination pushes the news half way (or worse) down the page.

The second sentence is just nonsense - if it were so important, it would be implemented in a more usable way using a technology that doesn't annoy people. The links in the carousel don't seem to appear anywhere else on the page - how do I get to that content if I block Flash/don't have Flash installed?

As someone else noted, it's also impossible to open links that appear in the carousel in a new tab. Opening links from the home page is more important than ever now that the home page is massive and slow - going backwards and forwards just sucks now.

Something you may wish to consider with regard to the spoilers - I'm less likely to view a race report if I already know who won. That means Mr Bensons "real news reporting" (isn't that a little tabloid to be fixated with headlines?) will actually lead to fewer precious page impressions (from me, anyway).

Also, any chance you might consider this?

 

[morephyous]

I think I understand splitting up the news. More page counts to present to advertisers .

 

[Greg Johnson]

I think I understand splitting up the news. More page counts to present to advertisers .

No - it means we can publish news in real time, instead of having to wait 12 hours for the next edition or decide if it's 'news flash' worthy. This is for the benefit of news tragics like myself who check a handful of websites once every two hours to see what's happened since my last visit.

You're still able to consume the news in the same way as before - via an edition of news - so the user has the ultimate decision on how that pans out.

Cheers
Greg Johnson

 

[Greg Johnson]

The second sentence is just nonsense - if it were so important, it would be implemented in a more usable way using a technology that doesn't annoy people. The links in the carousel don't seem to appear anywhere else on the page - how do I get to that content if I block Flash/don't have Flash installed?

So it's nonsense that it's important in the presentation of both tech and feature content, but you then go on to say it's the only way you can access this content from that page. So, you've kind of made the point?

Something you may wish to consider with regard to the spoilers - I'm less likely to view a race report if I already know who won. That means Mr Bensons "real news reporting" (isn't that a little tabloid to be fixated with headlines?) will actually lead to fewer precious page impressions (from me, anyway).

As I've said - this topic has been reconsidered since the launch and the outcome is that the approach stands. As a result, I don't see a need for me to spend any more time on this issue.

Also, any chance you might consider this?

Unfortunately I don't believe there's currently any plans for this.

Thanks
Greg Johnson

 

[manolo]

It's also ***, like Harley Davidson buying Ducati then wanting to make all their bikes choppers.

Ha ha! How true!

 

[morephyous]

Greg, what I liked about the 'old' news flash was when there was a news update, or a breaking update that was posted, you knew it was important. Like Armstrong to return from retirement. Whereas now, there are lots of stories which don't rate highly in terms of impact, if stories like the one mentioned would be mixed in with the countless others. Obviously you guys would put it in the flash intro, but maybe in future if something important comes along, the text would go red or something. I also agree that the text needs to be darker.

 

[krebs303]

Just checked out the live report from TdS. Just a couple things. Could we get the next/previous/latest buttons back on the bottom of the report to avoid having to scroll back to the top. And the text is loooooong. My eyes can only scan so far then I have to to turn my head to finish a line of text. not a big deal but distracting. Things are looking better. I hope that the spoiler issue can be resolved to every ones benefit.
Thanks for all your patience in your replies.