New site design

[manolo]

John,
I can't believe you can respond so arrogantly to honest reader's opinions of the new website.
David OLLE.

Thanks, David, you took the words out of my mouth.

 

[manolo]

I just read that spoilers are hear to stay. Sorry I am out of here then, spoilers are a deal breaker for me. It was a nice ride while it lasted. You just killed what made the original site different from all of the cookie cutter news sites.

Absolutely!

 

[dwheeling]

new site- later

I'm sure all of you at Gigantic MultiMedia (or whatever it's called) are just doing your jobs and conforming to the company line, so it's probably not your fault- good for you.
Amazing how the biggest issue with the new site (spoilers) is the ONE thing that seems to be unchangeable. I am glad all the font size, and color issues are being taken care of so quickly though (lol).
We have all put up with horrible grammar, terrible editing, and sometimes unintelligible translations ("I was having good sensations", etc) to get live race coverage and/or live reports without already knowing the outcome.
The features, I can dig for- no big deal. Same for the regular news. The spoilers, if they are here to stay, will send my web browsing fingers elsewhere. I'd rather use a site with real editors- not just some guy with a spell checker.
Will check back in on CN later to see if you guys have gotten the message, but for now you are off my menu bar.
- aloha!

 

[Kazistuta]

I surely hope you'll righten the ship. The first look was agonisingly painful, as I expressed in an earlier post.

I've read around 600 posts in this thread (meaning not all, so might have missed some vital info), and the good things are:

- You decided to give us full results as default - Thank you! (But at the same time I currently can't find the full results of todays stage in TdS: http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/73rd-tour-de-suisse-2009-upt/stages/stage-6)

- It seems like you're working on the spoiler part, and you'd better This will be the massive turning point for a lot of users/readers, so be wise and dismiss the spoilers.

- The new design doesn't bother me (except maybe that I'd rather have the old black text on white background and no underlines), and I think we'll all get used to it.

I think you released the new page to early (and yes, I've read John Stevensons - or was it Stefans? - response), you could have avoided a lot of these complaints with just a little forthsight. And you should have made it very clear to all on the front page that it was a page in the making and things where subject to a change. I can only imagine how many haven't read the editors/developers answers in this thread and thus being enlightened just a bit.

There surely will be a lot of general hits these days, but I'm sure it's people visiting the forum to "air it out" or checking back to the front page to see if any alterations have been made. In a week you'll see a massive drop-out in users (me incl.) if the most pressing wishes aren't met.

And btw.: Did any of your readers/users suggest implementing spoilers? And if so, how many? Or was it just a fancy idea around the editorial table?

 

[titan_90]

The old site is gone. Here's why (above). Long live the new site (what else can I say? Hope you fail?). Here's what I would hope you would post here (or something like this...) for those of us who feel betrayed, ignored, trampled:

"We upset your cart. We destroyed what many of you thought was a beautiful site. We took away something you loved and liked for its simplicity. We didn't realize people loved it so much or that it meant so much to them. We screwed it up. It was a very clumsy maneuver and a very clumsy rollout. We never expected such a backlash and apologize to everyone that was flustered, indignated and felt at a loss when we made the changes we made, especially by implementing it without getting your feedback first by setting up a Beta site. We realize we "screwed up" many people's favorite cycling site, completely and forever obliterating a beautiful web experience which will never come back.

Please understand us. We're trying to move forward and look modern and be able to attract advertising dollars, make money and provide jobs to the many people that work here while providing meaningul content to our readers. But we screwed up with many of you. We apologize. Please give us another chance."

Maybe it's said elsewwhere (somebody please tell me what post and its number) by the editors, but it's been such a painful heart-wrenchig experience, such a personal loss to so many of us, that, honestly, it's like your girlfriend or wife deciding to take on a completely different look, personality and attitude just because she wanted a change and then surprising you with the changes overnight. It's been shocking, in poor form and poorly handled from a PR point of view.

Of course, the site will go on. But please don't ignore the hearts you've broken, the unfairness of surprising your faithful readers with things they not only did not expect, but truly don't care for and just spew out the corporate line! Acknowledge your readership's sense of betrayal. Give us one last hurrah! Why not set a date, maybe for the Tour de France or the last few days of the Tour de Suisse and give us a 'goodbye tour'? Set up the old site one more time for just one day. Or follow the suggestion I just detailed above.

Ah, well, enough for today! But again, since I can get the race profiles elsewhere, and I haven't seen any good live tickers, are you doing Live Coverage? If you are, where the hell is it?... It may be the only reason I might get back on your site. Thanks for reading and for posting responses on these boards.

Edit; Just read a post that Susan Westermeyer did Live Coverage? Is it safe to come back?

Very well said, but you wont get a professional response like this from the staff. They have more than proved the could care less about long time viewers. I now believe that all Future Publishing wanted was the domain name pure and simple, because it a million times better than BikeRadar. Seriously, sounds like a three-year old came up with that name

 

[schadenfreude]

ok, the old site is gone. the new sight sucks, and sucks hard.

time to spend some more money on new designers, otherswise all of that plagerism from sporza.be, and other's will lose it's luster. QUICKLY.

you've been warned.

 

[sfgrandprix]

Ok a suggestion to throw in on the "we're a news site" v "we hate spoilers" war which may be possible and please everyone.

The current live report Susan is doing for the TdS has this url:

http://live.cyclingnews.com/

I think it was a pretty similar (if not identical) url on the old site. Previously once the race was over the full live report was archived using this style of URL:

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/road/2009/jun09/dauphinelibere09/?id=live/dauphinelibere097

As there were no spoilers on the front page telling you who had won a stage, website users could click directly on the link for the live report and experience it "as live". I assume a similar archived live report will be generated from now on on the new website with a url something like:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/73rd-tour-de-suisse-2009-upt/stages/stage-6/live-report

With the new content management system/coding would it possible to tag all newly archived live reports such that they would automatically be filed in chronological order on a page with a url such as:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/livereports

That way those who are desperate to avoid spoilers could just simply bookmark that page, go straight to it avoiding the front page, and pick out the report they want and read away spoiler free. After reading the report they can then return to the main front page for all the news.

This sort of system (if feasible - should be as it's a feature of most CMSs) would allow the hardcore to continue to get their "as live" fix from Cycling News spoiler free and benefit from the 24/7 rolling news and new design you've introduced. And everyone would be happy!

This is, by far, the most reasonable and well written comment to date on the spoiler issue, bravo! It seems to me this proposal would be very easy for the staff to implement and to maintain. It would go along way toward appeasing those who don't want spoiler headlines (including me and I dare say the vast majority of your readers). It would help do justice to all the hard work and the vital content provided by Susan and the other live report contributors. I urge you to give this proposal strong consideration. Thanks.

 

[sfgrandprix]

Very well said, but you wont get a professional response like this from the staff. They have more than proved the could care less about long time viewers. I now believe that all Future Publishing wanted was the domain name pure and simple, because it a million times better than BikeRadar. Seriously, sounds like a three-year old came up with that name

Indeed the most troubling aspect of this entire discussion has been the manner in which the high level management of Future Publishing has thrown their employees to the wolves, so to speak, by delegating the communication to staff members who clearly are not savvy in public relations (rule no. 1, do not show frustration with your critics in public). Everything that has been said gives me the sense that Future Publishing views Cyclingnews as just another property. They do not come across as fans of the sport at all and that is what is most distressing. It must be very difficult to work for such people.

 

[saladroll]

CSS and CMS can do so much better than this…

So incredibly sad given the number of excellent sites out there with stellar navigation, colour, format.

This site is just blech, 'fail' material, did any usability testing happen, did a trained designer even walk by the machine this drivel was produced on.

If i was an advertiser paying good bucks for my placements, I'd be outta here fast, by association this looks like a hack job put in place by the bean counter owners of this dreadful concoction.

Get someone like Jeffrey Zeldman in here fast for godsake and save your arses, http://www.happycog.com/

 

[I hate the new website]

What a surprise!!!

Anything I might say will be an understatement. 50+ pages of negative comments and dire requests for the return of the old page had me conceding that I was gone forever. As a last chance stab I sent a direct email to redesign@cyclingnews.com.
I reiterated what most of us have been saying but instead of just complaining I threw a few 'hail Marys' into my goodbye comments.
Almost as soon as I clicked send - I had a response. It must be my lucky day - (I'm out to purchase lottery tickets right after I post this...) Daniel Benson replied asking if he can call me to discuss my comments directly. I thought what the @#$% - sent him my contact info and after a mutual agreement not to post either of our personal info on the forums, we were speaking.
Daniel stated his business case, which if you have been following this thread you will know what that is already. BUT then it was his turn to listen to me. I'm not a web designer, not an IT guy, but what I am is: just an average hard core cycling fan who lives on a pretty small island off the northwest coast of British Columbia, Canada, who for the last 6 years has had cyclingnews.com as his homepage. I used to check the website several times/day, but as I stated in my email to Daniel I have a new homepage and will not be returning to cyclingnews.com.
I wanted the old page back - or at least the functionality (NO SPOILERS) so I suggested:
"Have you considered a link to a full index of live race reports? - this would address the spoiler issue - I could go directly to the live report page and avoid the headlines announcing the winners. This would not fix the spoiler issue for races that you do not report live. I am thinking that you do not accept that some of us like to follow races on our own terms - not yours. If I miss 2 days of coverage, I want to catch up progressively and not know where things are presently until I have digested everything in between.
That was the beauty of the old site - it allowed me to do that.

What about an index page of stories and race results without the blasphemous headlines? I'd go there first, because that's how I want to receive the info. I don't want to find out who won stage 6 when I haven't read the full story on stage 5."

As well I asked for a direct link to the news editions (only section on the homepage without a direct link). Daniel suggested http://www.cyclingnews.com/news which is better than the spoiler page.

You can go back and read my previous posts - I'm definitely not a fanboy and only signed up on the forums to get the old cyclingnews back but if they can give me a couple of workarounds to avoid the spoilers I might be back.
Daniel did not ask me to post this - I volunteered to write this because I think there is still hope for us. Some of them are starting to get the message.

Keep the suggestions coming - and buy a lottery ticket - it might be your lucky day.

 

[titan_90]

Anything I might say will be an understatement. 50+ pages of negative comments and dire requests for the return of the old page had me conceding that I was gone forever. As a last chance stab I sent a direct email to redesign@cyclingnews.com.
I reiterated what most of us have been saying but instead of just complaining I threw a few 'hail Marys' into my goodbye comments.
Almost as soon as I clicked send - I had a response. It must be my lucky day - (I'm out to purchase lottery tickets right after I post this...) Daniel Benson replied asking if he can call me to discuss my comments directly. I thought what the @#$% - sent him my contact info and after a mutual agreement not to post either of our personal info on the forums, we were speaking.
Daniel stated his business case, which if you have been following this thread you will know what that is already. BUT then it was his turn to listen to me. I'm not a web designer, not an IT guy, but what I am is: just an average hard core cycling fan who lives on a pretty small island off the northwest coast of British Columbia, Canada, who for the last 6 years has had cyclingnews.com as his homepage. I used to check the website several times/day, but as I stated in my email to Daniel I have a new homepage and will not be returning to cyclingnews.com.
I wanted the old page back - or at least the functionality (NO SPOILERS) so I suggested:
"Have you considered a link to a full index of live race reports? - this would address the spoiler issue - I could go directly to the live report page and avoid the headlines announcing the winners. This would not fix the spoiler issue for races that you do not report live. I am thinking that you do not accept that some of us like to follow races on our own terms - not yours. If I miss 2 days of coverage, I want to catch up progressively and not know where things are presently until I have digested everything in between.
That was the beauty of the old site - it allowed me to do that.

What about an index page of stories and race results without the blasphemous headlines? I'd go there first, because that's how I want to receive the info. I don't want to find out who won stage 6 when I haven't read the full story on stage 5."

As well I asked for a direct link to the news editions (only section on the homepage without a direct link). Daniel suggested http://www.cyclingnews.com/news which is better than the spoiler page.

You can go back and read my previous posts - I'm definitely not a fanboy and only signed up on the forums to get the old cyclingnews back but if they can give me a couple of workarounds to avoid the spoilers I might be back.
Daniel did not ask me to post this - I volunteered to write this because I think there is still hope for us. Some of them are starting to get the message.

Keep the suggestions coming - and buy a lottery ticket - it might be your lucky day.

Cool, I thank you for speaking for all of us.

However, what was his response on the spoiler work around like a different page? Can you tell us if they are at least considering something along those lines or not?

 

[I hate the new website]

full results back

Further to my last email - they heard us about the full results and made the change so if we keep chipping away and offering suggestions instead of just saying we hate the new site I really think we can get something usable.
It is really us that know what's wrong with the new site - not them, so tell them what will make it work for you. Daniel listened to me and if he continues to get ideas about how to make it work for us then it might happen.
Oh and he asked me if I would change my user name - I declined for now.

 

[pedrospeeps]

I feel so connected

Feel the same way.

I was not going to write anymore as this is really useless, these guys are not going to make it right. It is just a corp thing. Their jobs are on the line, so they have to do this. If I were the team, I would be looking for new jobs, maybe in a new cyclingnews startup somewhere in the world. I think it has all be said, cyclingnews is dead and will combine with bikeradar in a few months, or a year or so. Why I am writing is that I just did not understand that I was part of a worldwide group that thinks in the same way...sort of like cycling, and I have ridden in lots of countries..now I am in California. I really hope these guys fail at this and jump ship and join a small startup. Any team that could provide the same format as the old site would get instant income from the advertisers looking for like minded cyclist, not badly managed staff at Future. I did get a nice email from the CEO, but his mind is made up as much as his team, I think they have just missread the market. What a time to do this a couple of weeks before Tdf...the whole rollout was so bady managed it is almost text book, how not to do this. I am still reading the forum for my sins, but not the website...why would I, I can't get around it. I just go back to the old site to remind me how simple it was. When the dust has settled and a few people have left, I wonder what will be left?

 

[I hate the new website]

Cool, I thank you for speaking for all of us.

However, what was his response on the spoiler work around like a different page? Can you tell us if they are at least considering something along those lines or not?

To the best of my recollection... it is not his decision alone, he has to take it upstairs (or something along those lines) because it will require additional resources ($$$$ etc) to develop. But he definitely heard me and thought that it was a good idea.
My current view after my very positive discussion with Daniel Benson is that he does not want to lose us and is willing to try to accommodate us.
I'm pretty good at clicking around the internet but don't really care about what makes it work, as long as it works so it's difficult to verbalize what would fix it for me but some of the other posts in this thread demonstrated a very good technical understanding of alternatives so hopefully they will offer some ideas that might fix this for us.

 

[Lones1]

If you read through all the posts you will see we have been asking for the separate page/tab whatever without the spoilers for days....... We may not have written specific URL's, not being web savvy, but as they are the IT boys we figured they would know what we meant... (and know how to do it) Not one reply, not one acknowledgment of our posts. They have been asking us to not criticize but to have helpful suggestions, yet not one of those posts has been answered. Now suddenly it is "Oh what a good suggestion, we will look into it” If they had of replied to those other posts days ago, then a lot of this criticism could have been avoided. PR savvy they sure aren't. I don't like the new site, it is really slow to load, but if I could get the spoiler free part, that I could use as my link, I would stay, it is the only real thing I can get from this site and no other. The rudeness and arrogance of the staff has upset me and without the actual spoiler free URL then there would be no reason to stay with CN, everything else we can get from another site and a lot quicker, the loading time is a nightmare.

 

[titan_90]

To the best of my recollection... it is not his decision alone, he has to take it upstairs (or something along those lines) because it will require additional resources ($$$$ etc) to develop. But he definitely heard me and thought that it was a good idea.
My current view after my very positive discussion with Daniel Benson is that he does not want to lose us and is willing to try to accommodate us.
I'm pretty good at clicking around the internet but don't really care about what makes it work, as long as it works so it's difficult to verbalize what would fix it for me but some of the other posts in this thread demonstrated a very good technical understanding of alternatives so hopefully they will offer some ideas that might fix this for us.

Thank you for replying.

I wish the editors would come in here and tell us these things themselves. It would go a long way to cool some of the anger. For the last two days people have been asking very politely that same question with no response

For me this whole experience has been done very unprofessional. The redesign technically was not ready, they could have worked on it some more and waited until after the TdF to launch. They said they have been working on this redesign for a year If that is true somebody should be fired. Also, all of the money they spent on research was a total waste as they totally missed what made the old site click with everyone. To me it seems that all the corporate guys wanted was the domain name. So they could fill it with there poorly designed cookie cutter designed sites to just get more ad revenue.

But, however idiotic it may sound I am still holding out hope. CN used to be head and shoulders above every other site it was comical. I have been looking for a new home page and cycling news source but everything is rather pathetic in comparison to the old site. I am just completely lost without CN

 

[I hate the new website]

If you read through all the posts you will see we have been asking for the separate page/tab whatever without the spoilers for days.......

We must be wearing them down. I know for me, I was spending all the time I used to spend viewing cyclingnews.com over here on the forums complaining.
The spoiler issue is the final one for me. If we get a work-around then it was worth it.

 

[pedrospeeps]

I doing the same

We must be wearing them down. I know for me, I was spending all the time I used to spend viewing cyclingnews.com over here on the forums complaining.
The spoiler issue is the final one for me. If we get a work-around then it was worth it.

This is so amazing. I am doing the same. May be I don't need my CN fix four times a day, I need (or needed to join forums, like fight club) I have avoided forums for years, but the destroying of cyclingnews was just too much for me. I am sure these guys (other than the good doctor who needs to get out in the real world, rather than read about how it work in books, and needs to be fired) are great and ride their old beat up Holdsworths to work and were not ready for this PR mess up. My problem with this has been that it was not managed, otherwise it would not have happened. If they had asked for people to beta test the website (in the real world) they would have got the idea without a PR blunder. No one looking at the Ver 1 of the site on Tuesday would have said they liked it...that's for sure. As for wearing them down...I don't think so..this is just buying time until the big guns come down and sort the mess out. Minor changes to the website I am sure are fine, but it is the whole website (lack) of design and the stupid flash stuff is at the heart of the problem. The site is un-readable and will continue to be so until some sort of mass knife attack by a real designer and website programmer. I have spent so much time on this that I have forgotten all I knew about cycling around the world...I can go ride my bike now without rushing back to see if Boonen is riding the Tdf or Quickstep is going to sue...where would I find that info, other than the BBC worldservice as I sit here in a news blackout!

 

[manolo]

I think the new site has become more fluff than meat and potatoes... I could come here and find just about all the information I needed without having to go to 18 other sites...The new site has now pushed me to your competitors because of the lack of content... Is it really worth losing your base because of a bunch of flashy nonsense that looks really nice but has no soul?

How true this sounds! : )

 

[manolo]

We came here and didn't go to sites like BikeRadar because we don't have ADD and don't need instant gratification. You guys are totally clueless about what made the old site so popular. Like NO SPOILERS ON THE HOMEPAGE.

How true! : )

 

[manolo]

It's unfortunate that in that year there was no effort taken to pin down what made the site so popular. Then, you could have had better guidance in designing a better operating site that still has the same attraction to its faithful audience... followers are your best marketing tool.

So, as far as the "hostility" being thrown around. I think that part of it is that there are certain aspects that you can change with the new site that you are being adamant not to change. The spoilers of race results has been an outrage to huge numbers of people and you've pretty much said too bad, that's way the news is done.

Wow! Cool! Well said!

 

[Lones1]

We must be wearing them down. I know for me, I was spending all the time I used to spend viewing cyclingnews.com over here on the forums complaining.
The spoiler issue is the final one for me. If we get a work-around then it was worth it.

I really hope you are right, but sadly I fear Pedro is. How hard can it be to just have the live tickers archived onto one page, they have to archive them somewhere? I really don't get how it would cost extra dollars.....

I really would hate to be in Daniels shoes right now, who wants to be the second in command of the Titanic.

What a nightmare and that Dr Stefan is mentioning their site hits are up...!!!! I think he's proud

 

[manolo]

Brian at the wonderful thewashingmachinepost.com has even been moved to comment:..." but we only want the results, something the original cycliingnews did beautifully."

"... these cycling websites used to be about providing information, clearly, informatively and easily accessible; if there was any selling going on, it was subtly done. now it's all flashing banner ads, moving pictures..."

"... unable to find any contact information on the cyclingnews site, i was moved to sign up to their forum in order to vent my displeasure in the relevant section, where i did notice a good few others of similar mind. of course, any protestations are pointless:... it would be tantamount to admitting they'd got it wrong, if they reverted to the original. so even though i've filled these pixels with moaning, my only option is to go to velonews.
which is precisely what i intend to do."

priceless, brian, you've said it all.

Thanks for the post. Very well said! Thanks!

 

[titan_90]

and that Dr Stefan is mentioning their site hits are up...!!!! I think he's proud

Of course he is, they are up because you now have to click fifty times to find what it used to take one or two

More clicks = more ad revenue

 

[manolo]

I did.. go to bed from 12:30 AM to 6 AM this morning... I'm not going to appologise for actually sleeping after a 17 hour day, nor shall I be apologising for CityRail's shortcomings...

Will the old website return? No...

Thanks
Greg Johnson

Greg - sometimes I'm glad you respond. Others, I wish you would get some more sleep!