Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

[maxmartin]

What? This thread is about Nibali being at the same level as Froome/Contador, right? Did either AC or CF win a monument yet? Have a look at their palmares and compare. So far it appears Nibali is as smart or smarter than Froome. Hard to tell really because the all three are still active and have not finished their careers. My guess is that Nibali is smart enough to keep up with their levels of smartness.

Nah, AC is done he will never get to his pre-ban level, most likely will retire at the end of next year when his Kx is over. Still need some time to observe CF to get a definite conclusion.

 

[Publicus]

Nah, AC is done he will never get to his pre-ban level, most likely will retire at the end of next year when his Kx is over. Still need some time to observe CF to get a definite conclusion.

I'll say this much you're always good for a good laugh

 

[Dutchsmurf]

I agree, tactics wise, I would consider Nibali the best of the 3.

Really? What has Nibali shown tactics wise that makes him better than Contador? If anything Nibali has been throwing away chances to win stages/classics by attacking at completely the wrong time. Nibaly has many strong points, his bike handling being the most obvious, but I don't remember him ever making a tactically impressive move.

 

[Miburo]

Nah, AC is done he will never get to his pre-ban level, most likely will retire at the end of next year when his Kx is over. Still need some time to observe CF to get a definite conclusion.

Funny how Contador is still nr.1 at the UCI ranking. Anyways this person is trolling every time, no way he's serious or he must be mentally challenged. How long will the mods accept this?

 

[cineteq]

I agree, tactics wise, I would consider Nibali the best of the 3.

I'd say Contador is pretty good too. Remember Fuente De?

Really? What has Nibali shown tactics wise that makes him better than Contador? If anything Nibali has been throwing away chances to win stages/classics by attacking at completely the wrong time. Nibaly has many strong points, his bike handling being the most obvious, but I don't remember him ever making a tactically impressive move.

Have you figure out yet how people gain experience? As a result of those 'throwing away chances' he was able to win the 2014TdF by 7 minutes.

 

[trevim]

I agree, tactics wise, I would consider Nibali the best of the 3.

Completely agreed.
The thing is that Froome and Contador were often too good to even have to think of tactics. Contador to Gardeccia 2011 is a prime example of that: he made lots of tactical mistakes throughout a 260km with 6000m+ stage and still got away with it because he was so much better than everyone else.

 

[Miburo]

I agree, tactics wise, I would consider Nibali the best of the 3.

When did Nibali do something tactical smart? All i remember is him screwing over at least 1 guaranteed monument win, you can even argue 2.

Contador doesn't care about monuments cause he feels he has a bigger chance in winning 1 week races, besides monument is always a gamble aswell. Contador rode LBL 2010 perfectly btw.

He screwed up FW in 2010 though.

Contador did some tactical smart stuff in the giro 2011 (day before etna stage), tour 2011, vuelta 2012. In other GT's it wasn't really necessary or bruyneel had him on a leash.

The only thing i remember him screwing up is paric-nice '09, and every rider has at least 1 day in his career where he forgets to eat. Dauhpine this year wasn't his fault, his team was just terrible.

 

[Miburo]

Completely agreed.
The thing is that Froome and Contador were often too good to even have to think of tactics. Contador to Gardeccia 2011 is a prime example of that: he made lots of tactical mistakes throughout a 260km with 6000m+ stage and still got away with it because he was so much better than everyone else.

He spend his team on that one mountain, yea that was a mistake but like you said he was the best in the stage so it didn't matter since he can ride away from them all.

 

[Flamin]

Nibali's attack in the last Dauphiné stage was a good move.

Anyway, this is cycling, not a chess game legs do like 98% of the talking.

 

[Rollthedice]

Nibali's attack in the last Dauphiné stage was a good move.

Anyway, this is cycling, not a chess game legs do like 98% of the talking.

Yes. In the same stage Contador didn't go with Nibali and probably lost the Dauphine right then. So one is smarter but doesn't have the legs, the other is less smart, has the legs but it's not enough. Cycling.

 

[Miburo]

Yes. In the same stage Contador didn't go with Nibali and probably lost the Dauphine right then. So one is smarter but doesn't have the legs, the other is less smart, has the legs but it's not enough. Cycling.

You're right. Contador made a mistake there, i think he thought Froome was still good enough so that sky was gonna close the gap on nibali but froome wasn't.

 

[Flamin]

You're right. Contador made a mistake there, i think he thought Froome was still good enough so that sky was gonna close the gap on nibali but froome wasn't.

Iirc Contador had to close down an attack by Froome (and a teammate) only a few seconds before Nibali went, so it's not a mistake.

 

[SafeBet]

When did Nibali do something tactical smart? All i remember is him screwing over at least 1 guaranteed monument win, you can even argue 2.

There's nothing guaranteed when you're the worst sprinter among all contenders for that race.

 

[Escarabajo]

When did Nibali do something tactical smart? All i remember is him screwing over at least 1 guaranteed monument win, you can even argue 2.

Contador doesn't care about monuments cause he feels he has a bigger chance in winning 1 week races, besides monument is always a gamble aswell. Contador rode LBL 2010 perfectly btw.

He screwed up FW in 2010 though.

Contador did some tactical smart stuff in the giro 2011 (day before etna stage), tour 2011, vuelta 2012. In other GT's it wasn't really necessary or bruyneel had him on a leash.

The only thing i remember him screwing up is paric-nice '09, and every rider has at least 1 day in his career where he forgets to eat. Dauhpine this year wasn't his fault, his team was just terrible.

Well, people in this forum have said multiple times that he is not a true GT winner. That he does not have the talent to be a winner of GT's. Certainly he must be doing something right, right?

 

[Rollthedice]

Well, people in this forum have said multiple times that he is not a true GT winner. That he does not have the talent to be a winner of GT's. Certainly he must be doing something right, right?

Tour de France, 4 times, finished all, placings: 19, 6, 3, 1
Giro, 5 times, finished all, placings: 19, 11, 3, 2, 1
Vuelta, 3 times, finished all, placings: 1, 7, 2

I think almost half of those he was a dom. Frankly, apart from Contador I don't see anybody after Lance who is at Nibali's level as GT GC rider. Froome? Time will tell.

 

[Miburo]

Well, people in this forum have said multiple times that he is not a true GT winner. That he does not have the talent to be a winner of GT's. Certainly he must be doing something right, right?

Nibali deserved to win his GT's, he was the strongest in the 3 races but he certainly got lucky. I don't think he would have beaten Anton in 2010.

In the giro last year he was by far the best, parcours was crap due to rain though and wiggins didn't show up but anyways that didn't matter, he was by far the best.

And in the tour this year his 2 main competitors crashed out.

Luck is a factor that's important to win a GT. Everyone got lucky, contador too. Let's not deny that Nibali got really lucky too in winning 2 of his 3 GT's.

 

[cineteq]

Nibali deserved to win his GT's, he was the strongest in the 3 races but he certainly got lucky. I don't think he would have beaten Anton in 2010.

In the giro last year he was by far the best, parcours was crap due to rain though and wiggins didn't show up but anyways that didn't matter, he was by far the best.

And in the tour this year his 2 main competitors crashed out.

Luck is a factor that's important to win a GT. Everyone got lucky, contador too. Let's not deny that Nibali got really lucky too in winning 2 of his 3 GT's.

It's funny to see posters like this one having a matter-of-factly tone, when in fact they are just fluffy arguments, barely any meat on them. But keep calm, please go on and entertain us.

 

[movingtarget]

Nibali deserved to win his GT's, he was the strongest in the 3 races but he certainly got lucky. I don't think he would have beaten Anton in 2010.

In the giro last year he was by far the best, parcours was crap due to rain though and wiggins didn't show up but anyways that didn't matter, he was by far the best.

And in the tour this year his 2 main competitors crashed out.

Luck is a factor that's important to win a GT. Everyone got lucky, contador too. Let's not deny that Nibali got really lucky too in winning 2 of his 3 GT's.

I think Anton would have been very hard to beat in that Vuelta although the TT was never much good for Anton. Anton has not been the same since whether it was psychological I don't know but he very quickly went from GT contender to mountain domestique. Nibali would have only extended his lead in the Giro if the MTFs were all raced. I just hope he rides the Tour again next year. Throw in Quintana as well and it has the makings of a classic grand tour.

 

[SafeBet]

Tour de France, 4 times, finished all, placings: 19, 6, 3, 1
Giro, 5 times, finished all, placings: 19, 11, 3, 2, 1
Vuelta, 3 times, finished all, placings: 1, 7, 2

I think almost half of those he was a dom.

I bolded the only GTs where he worked as a dom. As for the 2008 Tour de France, it's debatable. I'd say he and Kreuziger both had free roles with no clear cut leader.

 

[Netserk]

Tour '08 and Giro '10 similar, no?

 

[SafeBet]

Tour '08 and Giro '10 similar, no?

Nibali came in the 2010 Giro as a dom. His shape was unknown and Basso was a much more realiable captain than Kreuziger could ever be.

 

[pigoonse]

Luck is a factor that's important to win a GT. Everyone got lucky, contador too. Let's not deny that Nibali got really lucky too in winning 2 of his 3 GT's.

Here is an example of Nibs creating his own luck. He has a good track record in GT's because he is super alert to changes. He happens to excel in bad weather, too. Sure he has made mistakes but his positioning and road bossing was pretty close to perfect in this TdF.

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720...nibali-attacks-avoid-danger-144049172&yr=2014

 

[Sciocco]

Here is an example of Nibs creating his own luck. He has a good track record in GT's because he is super alert to changes. He happens to excel in bad weather, too. Sure he has made mistakes but his positioning and road bossing was pretty close to perfect in this TdF.

http://www.steephill.tv/players/720...nibali-attacks-avoid-danger-144049172&yr=2014

Lol, if it was Garmin leading the group instead of BMC he'd be tempting fate!

Most GC riders do the exact same thing though, move to the front to avoid problems. I think what that video shows more than anything else is that Nibali is doing that by himself and his teammates are like, "wtf? where did nibali go???". Where is his flat dom. to move him around the peloton like that?

I think luck plays a major role though, you can probably look at many GTs and see how luck in some way or another affected the overall outcome, this TdF included.

 

[pigoonse]

Lol, if it was Garmin leading the group instead of BMC he'd be tempting fate!

Most GC riders do the exact same thing though, move to the front to avoid problems. I think what that video shows more than anything else is that Nibali is doing that by himself and his teammates are like, "wtf? where did nibali go???". Where is his flat dom. to move him around the peloton like that?

I think luck plays a major role though, you can probably look at many GTs and see how luck in some way or another affected the overall outcome, this TdF included.

My point was about there being the luck one creates, as Nibs did on stage 15, avoiding the echelon, and then, the flat out chance/coincidence kind of luck at play, also.

I loved how Nibs just goes. Notice how alert Sagan is too - the first to follow and yeah, team Astana is, "wtf?", as is BMC.

 

[Energy Starr]

When did Nibali do something tactical smart? All i remember is him screwing over at least 1 guaranteed monument win, you can even argue 2.

Contador doesn't care about monuments cause he feels he has a bigger chance in winning 1 week races, besides monument is always a gamble aswell. Contador rode LBL 2010 perfectly btw.

He screwed up FW in 2010 though.

Contador did some tactical smart stuff in the giro 2011 (day before etna stage), tour 2011, vuelta 2012. In other GT's it wasn't really necessary or bruyneel had him on a leash.

The only thing i remember him screwing up is paric-nice '09, and every rider has at least 1 day in his career where he forgets to eat. Dauhpine this year wasn't his fault, his team was just terrible.

I think the tactical masterpiece by Contador was when he rode against his own team and beat LA in TDF 2009. After all that has been said and come to light about LA since I think that was pretty ballsy.