Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

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Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador?

  • No.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

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  • Poll closed .
Aug 4, 2010
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Netserk said:
I'd say the opposite. It's nonsense on long climbs where tactics a more important, whereas (semi-)shorter climbs most of the time are full gas.
Yeah,I meant full gas.Its true on longer climbs its not common to go full gas,which is pity for this statistic of course.
I think 11/12 km climb is ideal.
 
I think this Nibali or the Nibali of last year Giro is at a similar level than Froome or Contador, with bad weather or tecnical race even better.

I wouldnt have thought that of Nibali two years ago.

Froome could beat him some days, in ITT or even in a climb, but not a big difference. Contador could put some time as well in an step climb, but just a little.

It would have been a nice race with all of them.
 
Jul 12, 2014
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Taxus4a said:
I think this Nibali or the Nibali of last year Giro is at a similar level than Froome or Contador, with bad weather or tecnical race even better.

I wouldnt have thought that of Nibali two years ago.

Froome could beat him some days, in ITT or even in a climb, but not a big difference. Contador could put some time as well in an step climb, but just a little.

It would have been a nice race with all of them.

Good post :)
Maybe he's not so spectacular like Froome when he climbs but he's efficient for sure ;)
 
ILovecycling said:
IMO its nonsense to measure it in this short climb.Even Verbier is pretty short.
Have sense if the condictions (weather, way to face the climb, part of the Tour, stage, wind,...) are the same...but with so hard stage this year in the Vosques is difficult to measure.

But a 6 kms hard climb is enough to measure properly.
 
LaFlorecita said:
Taxus picks the side against Contador, what a surprise :)

Some people have told me several times I minusvalorated Nibali, despite I was in the final party of the Vuelta 2010 dancing and singing with him and he looked a nice boy, I always thought he was brave, technical, regular along the year, he was completed, but he wont be never at the level to the best riders for GC despite his podiums and Vuelta... but now the fact is that he is at a similar level that these two riders.

Nibali was weaker in Dauphine than them, and Contador was weaker than Froome before the crash, you should admit that.

In this Tour Contador could put 3 seconds in an step and short climb, but no so short. Contador has a Km really strong in hard climbs, a 6-10 kms is his ideal climb, 1 kms as Huy is shot for him, but 3 kms with more climbs before is not bad.

But Nibali showed before two days he was really strong.

Nibali has beated Contador in Tirreno last year.

The Nibali of the podium of The TdF or the Nibali of the Vuelta he won is far of the level of this Contador or Froome.

Words of Wiggins:

Wiggins said: “Nibali was fantastic on the pavé [the early cobblestoned stage in the first week that accounted for Froome’s eventual exit].

“I think Nibali will win the Tour, he’s my favourite. If he goes as well as he did when he won the Giro last year, if he’s in the same condition, I think he’s unbeatable.”

On the first rest day of the Tour, the Italian Astana rider is wary of the threats posed by Porte and Spanish Movistar rider Alejandro Valverde. “I was expecting attacks from Contador,” Nibali said.
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Taxus4a said:
Some people have told me several times I minusvalorated Nibali, despite I was in the final party of the Vuelta 2010 dancing and singing with him and he looked a nice boy, I always thought he was brave, technical, regular along the year, he was completed, but he wont be never at the level to the best riders for GC despite his podiums and Vuelta... but now the fact is that he is at a similar level that these two riders.

Nibali was weaker in Dauphine than them, and Contador was weaker than Froome before the crash, you should admit that.

In this Tour Contador could put 3 seconds in an step and short climb, but no so short. Contador has a Km really strong in hard climbs, a 6-10 kms is his ideal climb, 1 kms as Huy is shot for him, but 3 kms with more climbs before is not bad.

But Nibali showed before two days he was really strong.

Nibali has beated Contador in Tirreno last year.

The Nibali of the podium of The TdF or the Nibali of the Vuelta he won is far of the level of this Contador or Froome.

Words of Wiggins:

Wiggins said: “Nibali was fantastic on the pavé [the early cobblestoned stage in the first week that accounted for Froome’s eventual exit].

“I think Nibali will win the Tour, he’s my favourite. If he goes as well as he did when he won the Giro last year, if he’s in the same condition, I think he’s unbeatable.”

On the first rest day of the Tour, the Italian Astana rider is wary of the threats posed by Porte and Spanish Movistar rider Alejandro Valverde. “I was expecting attacks from Contador,” Nibali said.

I dont know where to begin.

First of all, why is it that some can't see that Contador 2014 is a LOT stronger than 2014 level? He haven't been dropped on a single climb all year.

When they rode that 1,8 steep climb earlier in the Tour, Contador didn't even break a sweat. His only concern was the stage victory, because he didn't get the info that someone else was ahead. As soon as he turned the corner and saw the clock ticking he upped the tempo a little bit and Nibali dropped right away.

Pinot even dropped Nibali today!! Everytime he got dropped there is some excuse. The fact is that he isn't at the same level in climbing as Contador/Froome, he has never beat them on a MTF.

And who cares about what Wiggins says.. Wiggins just wanna save face.

The only reason Nibali looks so strong is because he is competing against riders that normally finish from 5-10th position. If Froome or Contador was in his position, we would have seen a massacre. They would easily put +2 min into the rest on every MTF.
 
Remondo said:
The only reason Nibali looks so strong is because he is competing against riders that normally finish from 5-10th position. If Froome or Contador was in his position, we would have seen a massacre. They would easily put +2 min into the rest on every MTF.

Which means they'd be re-writing cycling history books, setting new records for every climb they're doing.

Pinot destroyed 2010 Contador time up Bales today.
 
SafeBet said:
Which means they'd be re-writing cycling history books, setting new records for every climb they're doing.

Pinot destroyed 2010 Contador time up Bales today.

this. Pinot is easily top 10 of the owrlds best climbers, with only 4 or perhaps 5 guys I would call slightly stronger (Froome, AC, NIbbles, Quintana, on form JRod). He is not any weaker than Aru, and probly stronger than the rest. Valverde aint a nobody either. Fine Peraud is climbing like a freaking beast, but the peloton is by no means "weak". So for AC and Froome to get minutes on every mtf they would make Pantani look like a bold middle aged man that justbought his first bike
 
Jul 22, 2014
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Vino attacks everyone said:
this. Pinot is easily top 10 of the owrlds best climbers, with only 4 or perhaps 5 guys I would call slightly stronger (Froome, AC, NIbbles, Quintana, on form JRod). He is not any weaker than Aru, and probly stronger than the rest. Valverde aint a nobody either. Fine Peraud is climbing like a freaking beast, but the peloton is by no means "weak". So for AC and Froome to get minutes on every mtf they would make Pantani look like a bold middle aged man that justbought his first bike

Yes, you could argue that Pinot is a top10 climber, but in my opinion from top4 to the rest - there is a big step.

The two best is clearly Froome and Contador, with Quintana, Nibali and JRod a little step behind. From nr 5 and down it depends on the feeling they got that day.

Froome(before the crash) and Contador simply rode away 20-25 sec in 1k at the Dauphine, and they were also at maybe 85-90 % form.

The difference is that when you got two equally matched competitors they look at each other, which means that the less stronger riders got a chance to come back. When either Froome and Contador pre-ban/2014 level make an attack an distance the rest, the same situation happens as we see in the Tour right now. They simply make a BIG gap.

Imagine if ONLY Froome or Contador was at the Dauphine, and made that attack in the 2nd stage of the Dauphine.. they would have destroyed everybody else on a easy climb.
 
Remondo said:
Pinot even dropped Nibali today!! Everytime he got dropped there is some excuse. The fact is that he isn't at the same level in climbing as Contador/Froome, he has never beat them on a MTF.

Oh come off it. Do understand how to judge if a rider is going at 100%? Nibaili was clearly taking it easy. Anyone who knows anything about cycling could see that.

Also when Nibali beat both of them in Tirreno last year Froome practically came to a standstill on the final climb.
 
happytramp said:
Oh come off it. Do understand how to judge if a rider is going at 100%? Nibaili was clearly taking it easy. Anyone who knows anything about cycling could see that.

Also when Nibali beat both of them in Tirreno last year Froome practically came to a standstill on the final climb.
+1 People don't get it.
Most likely they want to change the name of this thread to:
Nibali at the same level as Froome/Contador/Pinot?
 
Jun 9, 2014
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Apparently if one of the world's best descenders zips up and grabs a bidon, thus allowing a known poor descender in front a 20 yard lead, that counts as "getting dropped".

At this rate, Contador and Froome should never enter any races. That way, their fans could claim they won them all.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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SafeBet said:
Pinot destroyed 2010 Contador time up Bales today.

What's more likely, that Pinot is now actually much better than the best climbers in 2010 or that some of those mysterious factors such as weather, tactics, accumulated fatigue etc account for this?
 
Remondo said:
Froome(before the crash) and Contador simply rode away 20-25 sec in 1k at the Dauphine, and they were also at maybe 85-90 % form.

I think you should not draw a whole lot of conclusions about Nibalis` abilities from Dauphine. The guy was clearly practicing ascent tempo there. Did you actually see him once getting out of saddle responding to an attack from the rest? Neither did I. I remember a stage (not sure which one), after which both Froome and AC actually said in official interview that they went all in to the end, and the result was they made 20-30 sec to Nibali that sat on his saddle the whole climb. It is a `bit` different Nibali that you`ve seen in past 2 weeks.
 
Feb 21, 2014
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Remondo said:
I dont know where to begin.

First of all, why is it that some can't see that Contador 2014 is a LOT stronger than 2014 level? He haven't been dropped on a single climb all year.

When they rode that 1,8 steep climb earlier in the Tour, Contador didn't even break a sweat. His only concern was the stage victory, because he didn't get the info that someone else was ahead. As soon as he turned the corner and saw the clock ticking he upped the tempo a little bit and Nibali dropped right away.

Pinot even dropped Nibali today!! Everytime he got dropped there is some excuse. The fact is that he isn't at the same level in climbing as Contador/Froome, he has never beat them on a MTF.

And who cares about what Wiggins says.. Wiggins just wanna save face.

The only reason Nibali looks so strong is because he is competing against riders that normally finish from 5-10th position. If Froome or Contador was in his position, we would have seen a massacre. They would easily put +2 min into the rest on every MTF.

AMEN to this. Thank you.

bambino said:
I think you should not draw a whole lot of conclusions about Nibalis` abilities from Dauphine. The guy was clearly practicing ascent tempo there. Did you actually see him once getting out of saddle responding to an attack from the rest? Neither did I. I remember a stage (not sure which one), after which both Froome and AC actually said in official interview that they went all in to the end, and the result was they made 20-30 sec to Nibali that sat on his saddle the whole climb. It is a `bit` different Nibali that you`ve seen in past 2 weeks.

Don't you get that if they had collaborated, they would have easily put + 1 min on Nibali ?
Didn't you see that Nibali was in the red the whole time?
Don't you get that Froome and Contador were NOT in top form as well?
Didn't you notice how sharper & thinner Contador looked in this tdf compared to the Dauphiné?

Edit: When Contador went full out, he climbed la Côte de Montagny approximately +1 min 30 faster than Nibali (6.3 W/kg during 19 min, Nibs still not delivering the same numbers in this TDF) and he still caught him up and left him behind on Courchevel.

Pinot broke the ascent record from 2010 on Balès?
Not the same tactics involved in 2010, they rode slowly on the first half of the climb, not the same weather, not the same wind either. Impossible to compare.
And what 's the point of this? Contador 2014 is still stronger than he was in 2010. And pinot is not at the same level of Contador 2010 .
 
May 19, 2011
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dduff442 said:
Apparently if one of the world's best descenders zips up and grabs a bidon, thus allowing a known poor descender in front a 20 yard lead, that counts as "getting dropped".

At this rate, Contador and Froome should never enter any races. That way, their fans could claim they won them all.

Isn't this happening right now?;)
 
dduff442 said:
Apparently if one of the world's best descenders zips up and grabs a bidon, thus allowing a known poor descender in front a 20 yard lead, that counts as "getting dropped".

At this rate, Contador and Froome should never enter any races. That way, their fans could claim they won them all.

Great post.

That was the great thing about being a Kloden fan given all of his abandons :D
 
SeriousSam said:
What's more likely, that Pinot is now actually much better than the best climbers in 2010 or that some of those mysterious factors such as weather, tactics, accumulated fatigue etc account for this?

If you read other sub forums, you know better that I was the first one to try to put into perspective his time.
Still, this doesn't change the fact he destroyed Contador time from 2010.
And that the claim Contador/Froome would have put 2 minutes into the others on every climb they've done it's outrageous. There's no data supporting this claim. No matter how big of a fanboy (or a troll) you are, you can't seriously believe that.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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SafeBet said:
If you read other sub forums, you know better that I was the first one to try to put into perspective his time.
Still, this doesn't change the fact he destroyed Contador time from 2010.
And that the claim Contador/Froome would have put 2 minutes into the others on every climb they've done it's outrageous. There's no data supporting this claim. No matter how big of a fanboy (or a troll) you are, you can't seriously believe that.

Yes, two minutes is certainly towards the high end of plausible values.