Nibali : i'm a symbol of a clean sport

[Archibald]

"Reports of GC riders hanging onto motos on the last climb today. Worse than doping," said Gaimon via Twitter
San Luis in 2014, no?

 

[Froomster]

LOL!

https://youtu.be/DP-xhbla1og?t=39s

 

[yespatterns]

Proclivity to cheat is a pretty easy bridge to doping. Martinelli said it himself "I've seen it a thousand times". So the commenters getting emo should think about the fact that outside assistance IS doping. Epo, blood bags, motors in the tubes, hanging on to a car so blatantly you get called out. A cheat is a cheat.

 

[simoni]

Re: Re:

I believe it's relevant to his capacity to cheat, don't you?

But not his capacity to dope?

otherwise you'd surely think Froome was doping by now, with all the cheating he has done.

So yes, I think you are in the wrong sub forum here.

Doping is a form of cheating. Nibali today (and has done previously but not this blatantly) shown that he is not 'willing to bend the rules' but straight up cheat. Therefore, in my mind at least, there's less chance that Nibali doesn't dope given that he's clearly prepared to cheat if he thinks he can get away with it, which is clearly possible

I don't think this tells us much more than taking tows probably goes on a lot more than we think. Slipstreaming in the car convoy is obviously frequent and is tolerated by the commissaires. This is just a more extreme version.

The fact that it was so obvious what he was doing is odd - they must have known that it was a risk which suggests that they thought it wouldn't be punished.

 

[wendybnt]

He was caught on camera. That was the crucial factor. If merely spotted by commisaire then no ejection, almost certainly. Point was he was making up time from crash, not attacking. I don't like the guy or his team, but he lucked out on this one.

 

[JimmyFingers]

There's sticky bottles...and then there's this. What Nibali did was flagrant cheating, at the front of the chasing pack then just leaving all of them for dead. Hilarious that he brought up Froome's DQ from the 2010 Giro to justify him attacking while Froome had a mechanical recently and then he does this. Froome's moto assist is in comparable: he was injured, last on the road and looking to abandon, hitching a lift to get to the team bus. Nibali did this to gain an advantage, very poor sportsmanship, but in line with his general, bidon-chucking character. I've liked Nibali in the past but this was a low act.

 

[Mr.38%]

The incident and his poor attempts of justification show clearly he gives a *** about the rules. Blaming the world and everyone else is so typical.

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

There's sticky bottles...and then there's this. What Nibali did was flagrant cheating, at the front of the chasing pack then just leaving all of them for dead. Hilarious that he brought up Froome's DQ from the 2010 Giro to justify him attacking while Froome had a mechanical recently and then he does this. Froome's moto assist is in comparable: he was injured, last on the road and looking to abandon, hitching a lift to get to the team bus. Nibali did this to gain an advantage, very poor sportsmanship, but in line with his general, bidon-chucking character. I've liked Nibali in the past but this was a low act.

I give Nibs 10/10 artistic points for best Cancellara-style attack impersonation (alien acceleration from the front of a group on the flat).

 

[The Principal Sheep]

It's strange to read here that some people are just beginning to come round to the likelihood of Froome and Nibali doping due to their occasional cheating behavior rather than any suspicious performances and/or connections

 

[Catwhoorg]

Who needs a motor in the bike, when you can just hold onto the car like that ?

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

There's sticky bottles...and then there's this. What Nibali did was flagrant cheating, at the front of the chasing pack then just leaving all of them for dead. Hilarious that he brought up Froome's DQ from the 2010 Giro to justify him attacking while Froome had a mechanical recently and then he does this. Froome's moto assist is in comparable: he was injured, last on the road and looking to abandon, hitching a lift to get to the team bus. Nibali did this to gain an advantage, very poor sportsmanship, but in line with his general, bidon-chucking character. I've liked Nibali in the past but this was a low act.

But more importantly is Nibali still clean?! Where is the evidence Jimmy?

 

[JimmyFingers]

I thought you'd be telling me

 

[The Hitch]

Is there any evidence Nibali was actually holding onto the car? We can't see him touching it. All we know is he accelerated at the speed of the car. But as I have heard a million times, going fast isn't evidence of anything.

 

[Savant12]

Re:

Is there any evidence Nibali was actually holding onto the car? We can't see him touching it. All we know is he accelerated at the speed of the car. But as I have heard a million times, going fast isn't evidence of anything.

Bolded by me.
It is when you're holding onto the car. Or was Nibali's defence: "It wasn't my fault! My team car just pulled up alongside me and just pushed me away from the other chasers."

 

[Beech Mtn]

Re:

Is there any evidence Nibali was actually holding onto the car? We can't see him touching it. All we know is he accelerated at the speed of the car. But as I have heard a million times, going fast isn't evidence of anything.

Perhaps the car created a super strong individual tailwind, and he was simply swept up in its force, nothing he could do except hold on for dear life.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

Is there any evidence Nibali was actually holding onto the car? We can't see him touching it. All we know is he accelerated at the speed of the car. But as I have heard a million times, going fast isn't evidence of anything.

You know i thought the car created a tailwind that caught him and pushed him along........

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yes, you can see the tailwind clearly in the video

 

[Escarabajo]

It's strange to read here that some people are just beginning to come round to the likelihood of Froome and Nibali doping due to their occasional cheating behavior rather than any suspicious performances and/or connections

I don't think that was the purpose. They are only showing or exposing the Psychological behavior proof with this event. I think everybody is convinced that he is a doper.

 

[The Principal Sheep]

It's strange to read here that some people are just beginning to come round to the likelihood of Froome and Nibali doping due to their occasional cheating behavior rather than any suspicious performances and/or connections

I don't think that was the purpose. The are only showing or exposing the Psychological behavior proof with this event. I think everybody is convinces that he is a doper.

There are plenty of people who do not believe that Froome (& likely Nibali) dope but do not question that they have cheated, I would point to Froome's transformation rather than transgression as proof of suspicion.

 

[yespatterns]

It's strange to read here that some people are just beginning to come round to the likelihood of Froome and Nibali doping due to their occasional cheating behavior rather than any suspicious performances and/or connections

I don't think that was the purpose. The are only showing or exposing the Psychological behavior proof with this event. I think everybody is convinces that he is a doper.

Exactly, it's not "due to", more "in addition to".

 

[happychappy]

Re: Re:

[quote="JimmyFingers"

I give Nibs 10/10 artistic points for best Cancellara-style attack impersonation (alien acceleration from the front of a group on the flat).[/quote]

At least Cancellara had the sense to hide his motor inside his bike.

 

[Escarabajo]

It's strange to read here that some people are just beginning to come round to the likelihood of Froome and Nibali doping due to their occasional cheating behavior rather than any suspicious performances and/or connections

I don't think that was the purpose. The are only showing or exposing the Psychological behavior proof with this event. I think everybody is convinces that he is a doper.

There are plenty of people who do not believe that Froome (& likely Nibali) dope but do not question that they have cheated, I would point to Froome's transformation rather than transgression as proof of suspicion.

I am just talking about Nibali here since he was just caught cheating blatantly.

I don't have doubts in my mind that Froome's transformation is a big red flag but we don't have psychological pattern behavior proof yet (maybe the motto pull at the Giro, but even that back then in the gruppeto could be seen as OK).

 

[mrhender]

The discussion reminds me of this quote:

"If you’re a cheat, you're a cheat, you're not half a cheat. You wouldn't say, 'I'll cheat here but I'm not going to cheat over there; I'll cheat on a Monday but not on a Tuesday.'

To be sure, I'am not at all using it as evidence just stating that I thought of the quote.

Could there be some truth in it?
Maybe in some cases -but it is not something I would call an universal truth.

Cycling is known for the "they all do/did it" discourse.

I wonder how riders perceive this kind of cheating as opposed to doping.

Maybe they feel the same way about it..

 

[Afrank]

Re:

The discussion reminds me of this quote:

"If you’re a cheat, you're a cheat, you're not half a cheat. You wouldn't say, 'I'll cheat here but I'm not going to cheat over there; I'll cheat on a Monday but not on a Tuesday.'

To be sure, I'am not all all using it as evidence just stating that I thought of the quote.

Could there be some truth in it?
Maybe in some cases -but it is not something I would call an universal truth.

Cycling is known for the "they all do/did it" discourse.

I wonder how riders perceive this kind of cheating as opposed to doping.

Maybe they feel the same way about it..

That's a question any good journalist would ask first thing.

My guess is that many riders would use the "it happens all the time" excuse to justify holding onto a car or bottle for too long (as a way to show that it isn't giving them and advantage and thus isn't cheating) just as it has been used to justify doping in the past.

 

[Benotti69]

Seems Nibali's card was marked. Bouhanni caught doing similar today, only fined!