Nibali : i'm a symbol of a clean sport

[argel]

Well we know how Lance handled the peloton. I don't think it's anything to admire.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

Yes, how I laughed as one of the most unrepentant dopers in the history of the sport won an Olympic gold.

Well, which rider in 2012 who had a chance isn't an unrepentant doper?

As a human being Vinokourov has a lot of black spots... but the races he won were always legendary.

And to drive this one home. I really think Froome is a good guy, he's not Lance dislikable. His honesty about Leinders and Tramadol clinched it. And this afternoon I hope he will attack Nibali to spite him. I will enjoy it.

But he's a doper. He's not a murderer, he's not the worst person in the cycling universe.. it's pragmatical for those guys.

And that's how I look at Vino's wins: very entertaining and not without tremendous willpower and suffering. But on dope.

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

And people say we're over reacting believing that there's resentment towards the British riders

There's a nuance here.

Sky is not popular in the peloton. And no, that's not because they win a lot as the best teams seldom are hated by their colleagues. This runs quite deep indeed.

Sky is also not liked by the clinic and broadly disliked by fans.

But a guy like Cummings does not get the same amount of hate, so it's not about nationality.

It's quite remarkable that a team is getting that much hate from all sides and can only be a failing of the management. USPS was not disliked in the peloton and not disliked that much outside of the Clinic.

The only team that got so much anger inside is probably Phonak 2006 (the Landis year) when riders were gloating on tv when perreiro got a huge gap and when a few days later Landis cracked.

=> And for the record, I think Valverde made a better decision by letting it slip a bit. But I'm happy Nibali is so hotblooded

 

[Franklin]

Re: Re:

Froome is not able to handle the peloton. Nobody would have ever attacked Hinault or Armstrong

In the Hinault era there was a lot more infighting and dirty tricks.

Hinault had a lot of power but the racing was much more cutthroat.

 

[jalep]

Re: Re:

And people say we're over reacting believing that there's resentment towards the British riders

There's a nuance here.

Sky is not popular in the peloton. And no, that's not because they win a lot as the best teams seldom are hated by their colleagues. This runs quite deep indeed.

Sky is also not liked by the clinic and broadly disliked by fans.

But a guy like Cummings does not get the same amount of hate, so it's not about nationality.

It's quite remarkable that a team is getting that much hate from all sides and can only be a failing of the management. USPS was not disliked in the peloton and not disliked that much outside of the Clinic.

The only team that got so much anger inside is probably Phonak 2006 (the Landis year) when riders were gloating on tv when perreiro got a huge gap and when a few days later Landis cracked.

=> And for the record, I think Valverde made a better decision by letting it slip a bit. But I'm happy Nibali is so hotblooded

Spot on. For example, I quite like and cheer for Cavendish now. When he was with HTC Highroad and Sky, I was often sick of him winning. Now that he's with EQS I quite like him. It's not anti-British at all, for me anyway. It's anti-Sky, most definitely, and I'd include the propaganda media machine that props up Sky = sickening. And NBC commentators are part of the revulsion - have been since I started watching in 2009 and it was all about Lance.

Even a favorite rider like Nibali can make me cringe when he calls himself the symbol of clean sport - uhg...
It's not the fact that Froome rides for Britain that I dislike him. Froome is disgusting to me all on his own. It wouldn't matter what team he rode on.

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

And people say we're over reacting believing that there's resentment towards the British riders

There's a nuance here.

Sky is not popular in the peloton. And no, that's not because they win a lot as the best teams seldom are hated by their colleagues. This runs quite deep indeed.

Sky is also not liked by the clinic and broadly disliked by fans.

But a guy like Cummings does not get the same amount of hate, so it's not about nationality.

It's quite remarkable that a team is getting that much hate from all sides and can only be a failing of the management. USPS was not disliked in the peloton and not disliked that much outside of the Clinic.

The only team that got so much anger inside is probably Phonak 2006 (the Landis year) when riders were gloating on tv when perreiro got a huge gap and when a few days later Landis cracked.

=> And for the record, I think Valverde made a better decision by letting it slip a bit. But I'm happy Nibali is so hotblooded

To the person I had replied to it was about nationality hence the comment

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

Or maybe he just looked straight at Kangert

That's what Nibali said and I kind of believe him: it was not obvious to us watching that Froome had a mechanical, it's plausible it was not fro riders, too.

BTW,even if Nibali did it on purpose the reason why this happened is because Froome is not able to handle the peloton. Nobody would have ever attacked Hinault or Armstrong

I wanted to believe that at first. However Contador and I believe it's Uran are both looking at Froome as well and after seeing the highlights (plus rewinding several times) the second look was a long one and he saw Froome stop

 

[zigmeister]

Re: Re:

How easy would it be to tell that Froome had an issue whilst he was in the group? Obviously Froome is looking down a lot but did obviously slow down and most didn't realise he had the issue until he was out of the group

Nibali took two long looks at him while he was futzing with his gears and attacked. I think it's clear he attacked because of whatever mechanical Froome was having.

Yeah, so what...he saw ALL the riders pause....decided, well, here's my change to maybe win a Stage for the team...his hopes of a podium were long gone, and was ZERO threat to Froome...Froome should just STFU...that guy thinks there are some special rules for him if he gets a flat or something.

I remember Contador just dancing away from Schleck a few years back when his shifting issues happened...Nibali is taking more *** for that attack on the entire group he was with than Contador on Schleck one on one that day.

He paid the price of course, because Stage 20, Nibali was cooked...which leads me to believe, yeah, Astana is full of dopers...but Nibali is clean...the guy imploded less than half way up Alp d-huez yesterday for that massive effort he had been saving the day before on the stage he won.

But back to Froome...that guy just rubs people the wrong way..."I can't believe Nibali didn't stop, get off his bike, help me repair/fix my bike along with the rest of them, I'm wearing the yellow jersey for Christ's sake!!!"

Give us a break Froome...that is why people spit on him...although nobody deserves that, many, including his rivals likely want to at times when he opens his pie hole.

Funny...haven't heard much from Froomie's girlfriend like the Wiggo TDF victory year...talking about making enemies.

Nibali is an example of just STFU and saying hey, I sucked, or got beat, and that is that...no whining much from that guy in comparison.

 

[junkie]

Re: Re:

yeah, Astana is full of dopers...but Nibali is clean

Not sure if serious.

 

[jalep]

Re: Re:

How easy would it be to tell that Froome had an issue whilst he was in the group? Obviously Froome is looking down a lot but did obviously slow down and most didn't realise he had the issue until he was out of the group

Nibali took two long looks at him while he was futzing with his gears and attacked. I think it's clear he attacked because of whatever mechanical Froome was having.

Yeah, so what...he saw ALL the riders pause....decided, well, here's my change to maybe win a Stage for the team...his hopes of a podium were long gone, and was ZERO threat to Froome...Froome should just STFU...that guy thinks there are some special rules for him if he gets a flat or something.

I remember Contador just dancing away from Schleck a few years back when his shifting issues happened...Nibali is taking more **** for that attack on the entire group he was with than Contador on Schleck one on one that day.

He paid the price of course, because Stage 20, Nibali was cooked...which leads me to believe, yeah, Astana is full of dopers...but Nibali is clean...the guy imploded less than half way up Alp d-huez yesterday for that massive effort he had been saving the day before on the stage he won.

But back to Froome...that guy just rubs people the wrong way..."I can't believe Nibali didn't stop, get off his bike, help me repair/fix my bike along with the rest of them, I'm wearing the yellow jersey for Christ's sake!!!"

Give us a break Froome...that is why people spit on him...although nobody deserves that, many, including his rivals likely want to at times when he opens his pie hole.

Funny...haven't heard much from Froomie's girlfriend like the Wiggo TDF victory year...talking about making enemies.

Nibali is an example of just STFU and saying hey, I sucked, or got beat, and that is that...no whining much from that guy in comparison.

Thank you Zigmeister. You made my morning. Someone who gets it 100%.

Elizabeth

 

[gazr99]

Re: Re:

How easy would it be to tell that Froome had an issue whilst he was in the group? Obviously Froome is looking down a lot but did obviously slow down and most didn't realise he had the issue until he was out of the group

Nibali took two long looks at him while he was futzing with his gears and attacked. I think it's clear he attacked because of whatever mechanical Froome was having.

Yeah, so what...he saw ALL the riders pause....decided, well, here's my change to maybe win a Stage for the team...his hopes of a podium were long gone, and was ZERO threat to Froome...Froome should just STFU...that guy thinks there are some special rules for him if he gets a flat or something.

I remember Contador just dancing away from Schleck a few years back when his shifting issues happened...Nibali is taking more **** for that attack on the entire group he was with than Contador on Schleck one on one that day.

He paid the price of course, because Stage 20, Nibali was cooked...which leads me to believe, yeah, Astana is full of dopers...but Nibali is clean...the guy imploded less than half way up Alp d-huez yesterday for that massive effort he had been saving the day before on the stage he won.

But back to Froome...that guy just rubs people the wrong way..."I can't believe Nibali didn't stop, get off his bike, help me repair/fix my bike along with the rest of them, I'm wearing the yellow jersey for Christ's sake!!!"

Give us a break Froome...that is why people spit on him...although nobody deserves that, many, including his rivals likely want to at times when he opens his pie hole.

Funny...haven't heard much from Froomie's girlfriend like the Wiggo TDF victory year...talking about making enemies.

Nibali is an example of just STFU and saying hey, I sucked, or got beat, and that is that...no whining much from that guy in comparison.

No just an unwritten rule not to attack the yellow jersey when he suffers a mechanical. But I'm presuming you're a fan off Froome's?

Not sure what you're remembering, the way I remember it Contador got more flack for it than Nibali, because as you say Nibali is no threat to the lead, whilst if I remember rightly Contador won by the exact same amount of time as he took out of Schleck that day.

 

[Arnout]

Re:

Nibali knew. He has a feud with Sky ever since the TdF2012 (as had Valverde).

I simply loved how the Spanish, the Swiss and the Italians combined at the 2012 Olympics to deliberately ruin the Brittish wank-fest. Nibali kept on attacking and taunting Wiggo and Froome until Froome cracked (and no, that was not master tactics, it was suicide). Monsterride from Wiggo, but the Spanish decided to help and just attack attack attck. With Vino as laughing third party.

Valverde made some kind of peace (a cooler head), but Nibali has not forgotten the perceived slight. There's a list of incidents of him and Sky (esp. Froome I think).

I think Froome is a very nice guy, but feuds like these make cycling fantastic,

In ten years when both are retired they will probably shake hands *shrug*.

Yes. You also saw Nibali attacking on the CdF yesterday just to drop Porte and when he did, he carefully held back not to bring Froome to Quintana (which in the end didn't work because Froome closed the gap himself).

 

[jalep]

Re: Re:

Nibali knew. He has a feud with Sky ever since the TdF2012 (as had Valverde).

I simply loved how the Spanish, the Swiss and the Italians combined at the 2012 Olympics to deliberately ruin the Brittish wank-fest. Nibali kept on attacking and taunting Wiggo and Froome until Froome cracked (and no, that was not master tactics, it was suicide). Monsterride from Wiggo, but the Spanish decided to help and just attack attack attck. With Vino as laughing third party.

Valverde made some kind of peace (a cooler head), but Nibali has not forgotten the perceived slight. There's a list of incidents of him and Sky (esp. Froome I think).

I think Froome is a very nice guy, but feuds like these make cycling fantastic,

In ten years when both are retired they will probably shake hands *shrug*.

Yes. You also saw Nibali attacking on the CdF yesterday just to drop Porte and when he did, he carefully held back not to bring Froome to Quintana (which in the end didn't work because Froome closed the gap himself).

Nibali doesn't give a s*** that's the spirit Contador 2009, doesn't give a s***
Makes these two pro riders symbols of spirit. Likely neither are clean over the course of their careers but for me they both appear clean, squeaky clean now, when compared to Froome, Thomas, Porte....

 

[wendybnt]

Maybe you didn't know but Contador and Nibali have both win GTs within the past 12 months.

Cleans

 

[jalep]

Re:

Maybe you didn't know but Contador and Nibali have both win GTs within the past 12 months.

Cleans

Maybe cleans maybe not

I wouldn't begrudge the fine Sky fans their joy this year. But let's hope Sky and its funders don't get carried away with their power and arrogance like the Armstrong debacle. Lance morphed into a cashcow. The hubris went far beyond sensibility. Power and greed, blind and grotesque went mad to excess then 7 Tdf's later there is outrage in a wake of destruction, pain and loss. Quite a story isn't it.

The template is too similar. There is nothing marginal about the financial gains at stake. If such power and control improved the sport, fine, but it doesn't. Taken to excess it's stifling, not to mention offensive. Reduction to a WWF show isn't what anyone who loves cycling and its grand tours wants.

Inquiring minds also cry out for transparency and answers. Really would like a peek at what's behind the doping curtain.

Cheers, Wendy.

 

[wendybnt]

I have as much doubt about Sky as I do about Astana, Saxo and Movistar but Sky are no USPS. Nowhere near as dominant. They've won, yes, but I'm calling it pretty close run. Look who's on the other steps of the podium

It isn't Sky.....

We'd all like a peek behind the curtain, but the truth is we will never know.

 

[TheRedSon]

I forget how often USPS put two riders on the podium or began insisting one of their other American riders was ready to win a different GT (while still employed by them of course)...

 

[jalep]

Re:

I have as much doubt about Sky as I do about Astana, Saxo and Movistar but Sky are no USPS. Nowhere near as dominant. They've won, yes, but I'm calling it pretty close run. Look who's on the other steps of the podium

It isn't Sky.....

We'd all like a peek behind the curtain, but the truth is we will never know.

Right. And it's interesting. Part of me is happy, very happy for Alejandro Valverde and part of me is wondering wtf does anyone see anything wrong with the picture? It appeared to me, from what I did watch of the last week, that very frustratingly Quintana was the strongest climber and he + the surprisingly strong version of Valverde could have beat Froome, Thomas and Porte in the last week, had they had the...how should I say the...balls (excuse me, it fits)

Well that's my opinion anyway about Movistar and their curious lack of moxie and tactics.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

How easy would it be to tell that Froome had an issue whilst he was in the group? Obviously Froome is looking down a lot but did obviously slow down and most didn't realise he had the issue until he was out of the group

Nibali took two long looks at him while he was futzing with his gears and attacked. I think it's clear he attacked because of whatever mechanical Froome was having.

Yeah, so what...he saw ALL the riders pause....decided, well, here's my change to maybe win a Stage for the team...his hopes of a podium were long gone, and was ZERO threat to Froome...Froome should just STFU...that guy thinks there are some special rules for him if he gets a flat or something.

I remember Contador just dancing away from Schleck a few years back when his shifting issues happened...Nibali is taking more **** for that attack on the entire group he was with than Contador on Schleck one on one that day.

He paid the price of course, because Stage 20, Nibali was cooked...which leads me to believe, yeah, Astana is full of dopers...but Nibali is clean...the guy imploded less than half way up Alp d-huez yesterday for that massive effort he had been saving the day before on the stage he won.

But back to Froome...that guy just rubs people the wrong way..."I can't believe Nibali didn't stop, get off his bike, help me repair/fix my bike along with the rest of them, I'm wearing the yellow jersey for Christ's sake!!!"

Give us a break Froome...that is why people spit on him...although nobody deserves that, many, including his rivals likely want to at times when he opens his pie hole.

Funny...haven't heard much from Froomie's girlfriend like the Wiggo TDF victory year...talking about making enemies.

Nibali is an example of just STFU and saying hey, I sucked, or got beat, and that is that...no whining much from that guy in comparison.

No just an unwritten rule not to attack the yellow jersey when he suffers a mechanical. But I'm presuming you're a fan off Froome's?

Not sure what you're remembering, the way I remember it Contador got more flack for it than Nibali, because as you say Nibali is no threat to the lead, whilst if I remember rightly Contador won by the exact same amount of time as he took out of Schleck that day.

Yeah, it's a little different when the guy in question is already 7mins down. That said, Nibali did get the stage win and you can't let someone as dangerous as him get is confidence up. If I was Froome I'd be disappointed but I wouldn't get too carried away.

 

[blackcat]

 

[JimmyFingers]

Haha have you seen the video? I've always liked Nibali and his style of racing but hanging onto the car to get back after the crash, terrible cheating, deserved DQ

 

[BigMac]

Still think the blame was more on Sheffer. Even Nibali must have have had a WTF reaction.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Haha have you seen the video? I've always liked Nibali and his style of racing but hanging onto the car to get back after the crash, terrible cheating, deserved DQ

sorry, what does this have to do with doping? Why can't you enjoy the beauty of doping without bringing up these irrelevant issues?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yeah I am sure he tried to fight him off

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

Haha have you seen the video? I've always liked Nibali and his style of racing but hanging onto the car to get back after the crash, terrible cheating, deserved DQ

sorry, what does this have to do with doping? Why can't you enjoy the beauty of doping without bringing up these irrelevant issues?

Yes I agree, we should never mention a rider receiving vehicular assistance again in this forum, as well as mechanical as it's not strictly doping. It is however cheating, which forum do we go to discuss that, Einstein?