Nibali : i'm a symbol of a clean sport

[gooner]

Re: Re:

Haha have you seen the video? I've always liked Nibali and his style of racing but hanging onto the car to get back after the crash, terrible cheating, deserved DQ

sorry, what does this have to do with doping? Why can't you enjoy the beauty of doping without bringing up these irrelevant issues?

Yes I agree, we should never mention a rider receiving vehicular assistance again in this forum, as well as mechanical as it's not strictly doping. It is however cheating, which forum do we go to discuss that, Einstein?

I know. It's not as if Froome and his situation in the Giro was ever discussed in here.

 

[the sceptic]

this thread is about whether Nibali is doping or not. Not sure how him hanging onto cars is relevant. I'm sure you can find another forum in which you can discuss it.

 

[JimmyFingers]

http://youtu.be/hSQW8OX8VqA

This is hilarious, no hiding at all

 

[Afrank]

I think the PRR forum is fine to discuss it in with regards to the rightness or wrongness of it.

Discussing it in comparison to doping and mechanical doping I would say goes in this forum.
For example, one of the reasons for it being a fine thing to do was that lots in the peloton do it. I would make the case that lots in the peloton dope as well. But that doesn't make doping acceptable or not against the rules.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

Haha have you seen the video? I've always liked Nibali and his style of racing but hanging onto the car to get back after the crash, terrible cheating, deserved DQ

sorry, what does this have to do with doping? Why can't you enjoy the beauty of doping without bringing up these irrelevant issues?

Yes I agree, we should never mention a rider receiving vehicular assistance again in this forum, as well as mechanical as it's not strictly doping. It is however cheating, which forum do we go to discuss that, Einstein?

I know. It's not as if Froome and his situation in the Giro was ever discussed in here.

Froome hanging onto the motorbike is used to illustrate the point that he was so bad before his transformation that he could hardly get over a mountain.

I don't think you can make a similar point with Nibali.

Thus, it's not the same and the Nibali DQ is not relevant to this forum.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re:

this thread is about whether Nibali is doping or not. Not sure how him hanging onto cars is relevant. I'm sure you can find another forum in which you can discuss it.

So according to you, o great arbiter of rules, no discussion of vehicular or mechanical assistance is relevant in this forum? Best delete a few threads then, hypocrite

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

this thread is about whether Nibali is doping or not. Not sure how him hanging onto cars is relevant. I'm sure you can find another forum in which you can discuss it.

So according to you, o great arbiter of rules, no discussion of vehicular or mechanical assistance is relevant in this forum? Best delete a few threads then, hypocrite

I think the PRR forum is fine to discuss it in with regards to the rightness or wrongness of it.

Discussing it in comparison to doping and mechanical doping I would say goes in this forum.
For example, one of the reasons for it being a fine thing to do was that lots in the peloton do it. I would make the case that lots in the peloton dope as well. But that doesn't make doping acceptable or not against the rules.

There you go. The PRR forum is the place you should go to.

unless you want to make some link between Nibali hanging on to a car and doping. But I don't see it. Sorry.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re:

I think the PRR forum is fine to discuss it in with regards to the rightness or wrongness of it.

Discussing it in comparison to doping and mechanical doping I would say goes in this forum.
For example, one of the reasons for it being a fine thing to do was that lots in the peloton do it. I would make the case that lots in the peloton dope as well. But that doesn't make doping acceptable or not against the rules.

There is no rightness to it, it's gaining an unfair advantage as evidenced by the large group of cyclists in his wake. It is exactly the same as gaining an unfair advantage through PEDs or motors in the bike. It is cheating on a flagrant, monumental scale and as such has to be included on any discussion of the rider and his ethics here in this forum.

 

[Afrank]

Re: Re:

I think the PRR forum is fine to discuss it in with regards to the rightness or wrongness of it.

Discussing it in comparison to doping and mechanical doping I would say goes in this forum.
For example, one of the reasons for it being a fine thing to do was that lots in the peloton do it. I would make the case that lots in the peloton dope as well. But that doesn't make doping acceptable or not against the rules.

There is no rightness to it, it's gaining an unfair advantage as evidenced by the large group of cyclists in his wake. It is exactly the same as gaining an unfair advantage through PEDs or motors in the bike. It is cheating on a flagrant, monumental scale and as such has to be included on any discussion of the rider and his ethics here in this forum.

I agree. I'm very disappointed with Nibali.
______________________________________________________________________________

Also, let's stay away from insulting or baiting other posters and discuss things calmly.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Reminds of the incident? Was in it anyway as serious as this? Or just you trying to divert attention?

 

[gooner]

Re: Re:

I think the PRR forum is fine to discuss it in with regards to the rightness or wrongness of it.

Discussing it in comparison to doping and mechanical doping I would say goes in this forum.
For example, one of the reasons for it being a fine thing to do was that lots in the peloton do it. I would make the case that lots in the peloton dope as well. But that doesn't make doping acceptable or not against the rules.

There is no rightness to it, it's gaining an unfair advantage as evidenced by the large group of cyclists in his wake. It is exactly the same as gaining an unfair advantage through PEDs or motors in the bike. It is cheating on a flagrant, monumental scale and as such has to be included on any discussion of the rider and his ethics here in this forum.

There was no issue on sceptic's part or the mods for that matter when Froome on Alpe d'Huez and the email at the world championships were used to add to the argument against Froome.

This is about having their cake and eating it.

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

Reminds of the incident? Was in it anyway as serious as this? Or just you trying to divert attention?

cheating is cheating.

I agree what Nibali did was blatant cheating and deserves a DQ. But I don't see how it's relevant to doping.

Do you believe this makes it more likely Nibali is doping or what?

 

[JimmyFingers]

I believe it's relevant to his capacity to cheat, don't you?

 

[the sceptic]

Re:

I believe it's relevant to his capacity to cheat, don't you?

But not his capacity to dope?

otherwise you'd surely think Froome was doping by now, with all the cheating he has done.

So yes, I think you are in the wrong sub forum here.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Re: Re:

I believe it's relevant to his capacity to cheat, don't you?

But not his capacity to dope?

otherwise you'd surely think Froome was doping by now, with all the cheating he has done.

So yes, I think you are in the wrong sub forum here.

So they are different things? Haha you are hilarious, just so obviously fake.

Try to brush this away, try to re-focus instead in the riders you don't like, inevitably Anglo ones. And repeat.

 

[the sceptic]

Re: Re:

I believe it's relevant to his capacity to cheat, don't you?

But not his capacity to dope?

otherwise you'd surely think Froome was doping by now, with all the cheating he has done.

So yes, I think you are in the wrong sub forum here.

So they are different things? Haha you are hilarious, just so obviously fake.

Try to brush this away, try to re-focus instead in the riders you don't like, inevitably Anglo ones. And repeat.

So you think Nibali is doping now because he cheated here? But Froome still clean?

Just trying to work out the logic here.

 

[wendybnt]

Cheating is cheating, and in that respect Nibali's taxi ride is analogous to doping. However the two types of cheating aren't treated the same way. No legal issues or in-house ban for Nibali. Where there is somewhat of an equivalence is in the reaction of the sporting authorities in so far as they would really have hated ejecting Nibali, but had little choice because it was broadcast on tv. No Tv and Nibali would still be riding. In much the same way as the UCI and the race owners don't want doping positives.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If we really want to go the Nibali/Froome comparative exercise, the thing has always been that there is tolerance of sticky bottles and the like, as long as you keep it within reason. What makes people jumpy about Froome, and the same goes for several others, such as Zakarin or Cândido Barbosa, is that the nature of his rise and the combination of his style and performance levels are too egregious for even many of those who think everybody is doping to be able to suspend their disbelief. People who dope within lesser parameters, or who dope but displayed more talent earlier, get a much easier ride from those who either turn a blind eye to performances which are suspicious or try to rationalize them, than somebody like Froome, whose every action ends up causing arguments.

Everybody takes advantage of sticky bottles, a tow from the team car, and so on. Turning a blind eye to minor infractions of this rule or trying to rationalize them is simply part of the sport. However, what Astana did today was far too obvious, far too egregious, and just way too major for anybody to buy into. If the technical infraction on the use of the team car was put into doping terms, this was not the talented rider taking the dope to compete at the top level the same as everybody else does. It wasn't even big shock performances on the Froome/Santi Pérez level. It was full on Jimmy Briceño, Mr 63% stuff.

 

[luckyboy]

Tinkov just called out Martinelli on Twitter

https://twitter.com/olegtinkov/status/635570107725516800

Oleg Tinkov
‏@olegtinkov
Martinelli, not Nibali should be disqualified from Vuelta and even cycling. He is a cheater from past and grey cycling times


I mean we know what Hamilton has said about him but at least someone is calling out Astana management for their past

 

[the sceptic]

that's rich coming from Oleg. How many former dopers does he employ at the moment?

 

[Irondan]

Tinkov just called out Martinelli on Twitter

https://twitter.com/olegtinkov/status/635570107725516800

Oleg Tinkov
‏@olegtinkov
Martinelli, not Nibali should be disqualified from Vuelta and even cycling. He is a cheater from past and grey cycling times


I mean we know what Hamilton has said about him but at least someone is calling out Astana management for their past

lol! Oleg, I love you! Please don't ever change!

Nibali got what he deserved.

 

[Benotti69]

No doubt Nibali got what he deserved.

But again UCI needs to apply its rules evenly. Cav never thrown off a race for hanging onto cars. 16 riders at the Giro this year penalised with time and fines but allowed to stay in the race.

Astana cant complain. Bet Nibali regrets mentioning Froome hanging onto motorbikes!

Tinkov is not worth commenting on.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

I believe it's relevant to his capacity to cheat, don't you?

But not his capacity to dope?

otherwise you'd surely think Froome was doping by now, with all the cheating he has done.

So yes, I think you are in the wrong sub forum here.

Doping is a form of cheating. Nibali today (and has done previously but not this blatantly) shown that he is not 'willing to bend the rules' but straight up cheat. Therefore, in my mind at least, there's less chance that Nibali doesn't dope given that he's clearly prepared to cheat if he thinks he can get away with it, which is clearly possible

 

[wendybnt]

Playing devil's advocate here.....what about when Renshaw was DQ'd for headbutting. Does that predispose him to doping?

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

Playing devil's advocate here.....what about when Renshaw was DQ'd for headbutting. Does that predispose him to doping?

There's a massive difference between losing your cool and attempting to cheat. Nibali's little bottle tow wasn't your routine 2 second breather, it was a 10+ second 60km/h accelerating tow