Nibali's sticky bottle

[BigMac]

I don't know, but I think Joe Papp made a good point earlier: Nibali literally grabbed the car with the intent of speeding away from the group he was in to the main peloton, fact is Astana didn't even try to makes us believe they were giving some sort of mechanical, medical or logistical support, whereas that looks to be the case with Cofidis. One's a sticky bottle, taking some time to rest legs, and involving an isolated rider - on the other hand it looks like Nibali snatched the car and powered away from his group mates. As much as Martinelli says so, I've never seen something like that, but I've seen plenty of cases similar to Bouhanni's; in fact, the latter happens al the time and is perfectly normal, and I fail to see how a comparison can be made between the two. Demanding the same action to be taken against Cofidis is, I think, with no offence, just desperate finger pointing and pedantry.

 

[BigMac]

In related news, the Cycling Hub YT account that upload the video with most views has been taken down.

 

[King Boonen]

Re:

I'd like to ask: as per the UCI rule on this matter, does the time you hold onto the car or the speed you reach make a difference? Or it's all in the hands of the race commish?

Off the top of my head it's the actual holding onto the vehicle which is an issue, which is why the sticky bottle gets away with it.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re:

In related news, the Cycling Hub YT account that upload the video with most views has been taken down.

They'll be back. Their YT channel is taken down every month or so, and there's always a new one soon.

 

[BigMac]

Re: Re:

In related news, the Cycling Hub YT account that upload the video with most views has been taken down.

They'll be back. Their YT channel is taken down every month or so, and there's always a new one soon.

Cheers, thought so. I imagine they get in trouble often because of copyright stuff.

 

[PremierAndrew]

Re: Re:

In related news, the Cycling Hub YT account that upload the video with most views has been taken down.

They'll be back. Their YT channel is taken down every month or so, and there's always a new one soon.

Cheers, thought so. I imagine they get in trouble often because of copyright stuff.

http://www.cyclinghub.tv/

That's their main website and is yet to be taken down afaik

 

[Noodles]

Re:

198 riders in the peloton and none consider it cheating. It's common practice.

This sounds familiar ...

If a cyclist can't (or won't) compete without any form of motorised assistance (legitimate on the fly mech help excluded), perhaps (s)he shouldn't be there ...

 

[Jancouver]

 

[Carols]

Re:

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

 

[Angliru]

Re:

Big difference between the Nibali incident and the Bouhanni one is the quality of evidence. It's like in court; to throw someone out of the race you have to be beyond reasonable doubt that they cheated.

In Nibali's case this was very clear. The incredible acceleration for quite some time could only have been achieved by deliberately holding on to the car in order to obtain an advantage. The other riders provided a frame of reference for just how ridiculous and unnatural the accelration was.

In Bouhanni's case it's nowhere near as clear cut. He's still pedaling and from the camera angle it's impossible to see if there was an increase in his speed. He's also not touching the car, so there just isn't enough evidence to DQ him.

How can one guage the acceleration in the Bouhanni video when it's being viewed from behind and not from the side like the Nibali video? There is no group of riders that he was with to show the speed at which he was being towed away from them. You aren't seeing it from the point that Bouhanni's tow began so we don't know how long his violation lasted.

 

[DFA123]

Re: Re:

Big difference between the Nibali incident and the Bouhanni one is the quality of evidence. It's like in court; to throw someone out of the race you have to be beyond reasonable doubt that they cheated.

In Nibali's case this was very clear. The incredible acceleration for quite some time could only have been achieved by deliberately holding on to the car in order to obtain an advantage. The other riders provided a frame of reference for just how ridiculous and unnatural the accelration was.

In Bouhanni's case it's nowhere near as clear cut. He's still pedaling and from the camera angle it's impossible to see if there was an increase in his speed. He's also not touching the car, so there just isn't enough evidence to DQ him.

How can one guage the acceleration in the Bouhanni video when it's being viewed from behind and not from the side like the Nibali video? There is no group of riders that he was with to show the speed at which he was being towed away from them. You aren't seeing it from the point that Bouhanni's tow began so we don't know how long his violation lasted.

Well yes, that's exactly what I said. The evidence isn't conclusive regarding Bouhanni, whereas it was regarding Nibali. Bouhanni was rightly given the benefit of the doubt; in Nibali's case there was no doubt as to what was happening.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Re: Re:

Big difference between the Nibali incident and the Bouhanni one is the quality of evidence. It's like in court; to throw someone out of the race you have to be beyond reasonable doubt that they cheated.

In Nibali's case this was very clear. The incredible acceleration for quite some time could only have been achieved by deliberately holding on to the car in order to obtain an advantage. The other riders provided a frame of reference for just how ridiculous and unnatural the accelration was.

In Bouhanni's case it's nowhere near as clear cut. He's still pedaling and from the camera angle it's impossible to see if there was an increase in his speed. He's also not touching the car, so there just isn't enough evidence to DQ him.

How can one guage the acceleration in the Bouhanni video when it's being viewed from behind and not from the side like the Nibali video? There is no group of riders that he was with to show the speed at which he was being towed away from them. You aren't seeing it from the point that Bouhanni's tow began so we don't know how long his violation lasted.

Well yes, that's exactly what I said. The evidence isn't conclusive regarding Bouhanni, whereas it was regarding Nibali. Bouhanni was rightly given the benefit of the doubt; in Nibali's case there was no doubt as to what was happening.

Look at the mechanism of the transmission of power. It is hand to bottle to hand. With this type of mechanism you can never transfer too much as the length of the connection is not suitable for it. Whereas as Nibali directly holds onto the car with a short connection thereby accelerating to the extreme.

 

[webvan]

Wow Nibali firing on all cylinders http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-hits-back-at-critics-and-calls-on-astana-to-back-him/ - someone should tell him to chill out and try going for a low profile earlier rather than later. This isn't going to end well...

 

[ray j willings]

I think Nibs is a wee bit frustrated about his season. I think his form is better than he showed and things have just not worked out like they did last year.
I do think that riders should just race. I'm fed up of " lets wait for the yellow jersey. he's stopped to brush his hair so we all have to stop"
Just race FFS ....It's swings and roundabouts and I don't recall anyone saying that Valverde or Evans had been hard done by in past years or Bertie in the Giro when Astana took off. That's racing let them race. No stopping for no one. If the yellow jersey takes a whizz, then I say "attack him"

 

[BigMac]

Thanks. I seriously hope he leaves that team, cannot deny there's truth in his statements. Luckily he'll be on the attack in Plouay next weekend.

 

[veji11]

Re:

I don't know, but I think Joe Papp made a good point earlier: Nibali literally grabbed the car with the intent of speeding away from the group he was in to the main peloton, fact is Astana didn't even try to makes us believe they were giving some sort of mechanical, medical or logistical support, whereas that looks to be the case with Cofidis. One's a sticky bottle, taking some time to rest legs, and involving an isolated rider - on the other hand it looks like Nibali snatched the car and powered away from his group mates. As much as Martinelli says so, I've never seen something like that, but I've seen plenty of cases similar to Bouhanni's; in fact, the latter happens al the time and is perfectly normal, and I fail to see how a comparison can be made between the two. Demanding the same action to be taken against Cofidis is, I think, with no offence, just desperate finger pointing and pedantry.

$

Exactly... It's a bit like how Peraud bridged the gap in the Tour de France after his horrible fall while all burnt and bleeding : he got going a good 5 minutes after his fall yet in less than 15 minutes was back in the peloton, having spend 10ish minutes being towed by the doctor's car while being turned into a mummy. although an extreme cas in that instance, It happens all the time, that a lone rider at the back in some form of difficutly gets a bit of help.. NOt even remotely comparable to Nibali activating cartoon like "Nitro Boosters" while leading a group of 20 riders, leaving them in his dust.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I don't see why there is a distinction between hanging onto a car for 10 secs+ and hanging onto a bottle for 10 secs+. Same practical advantage

But anyway, was there any evidence Nibali was hanging onto the car ? From the video that was posted it was impossible to say, only that he was clearly hanging on to something

 

[Old Cog]

No, can't imagine his words since have helped.

Though there is obvious truth in his complaints about his team's lack of support. Anyone spot Astana on the front trying to block or at least ease the pace? Any sign of them dropping off the back to help him get back on? On the youtube clips he's clearly battering on, hoovering up those who managed to get back on a bike quicker than him: looks like he's got twenty or thirty managing to hang onto his wheel. Then the Astana car whizzes up and pulls over next to Nibali and the riders behind him (and now behind the car) pause in their pedal stroke for a moment and in that moment Nibbles is 10 metres ahead and gone. Their hearts, not unnaturally, drop out of their bottoms. They all ease off and by the time Nibali is 30 metres away the long line of his chasers has bunched right up, showing how much they've slowed.
So the ridiculous speed his gap increased was mainly down to the fact that the others stopped riding.
The illusion that the Astana car picked Nibali up then accelerated to tow him clear is, mainly, just an illusion.

If Nibbles deserves to be kicked out it's because of what he says. "ho sbagliato" - I have made a mistake. a typing error or missing your motorway exit or adding 27 and 35 and getting 52 - those are mistakes: choosing to break the rules is cheating.

 

[postmanhat]

Re:

I don't see why there is a distinction between hanging onto a car for 10 secs+ and hanging onto a bottle for 10 secs+. Same practical advantage

But anyway, was there any evidence Nibali was hanging onto the car ? From the video that was posted it was impossible to say, only that he was clearly hanging on to something

What else was he hanging onto? An invisible ostrich

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

I don't see why there is a distinction between hanging onto a car for 10 secs+ and hanging onto a bottle for 10 secs+. Same practical advantage

But anyway, was there any evidence Nibali was hanging onto the car ? From the video that was posted it was impossible to say, only that he was clearly hanging on to something

What else was he hanging onto? An invisible ostrich

Could be. Or maybe a bottle

 

[Backroader69]

They only hate me because I'm with Astana, not because I took an outrageous tow. Ya, right! ;-)
No, you're not a "monster" Vince, you're a CHEATER! You got caught. Quit whining!

 

[Escarabajo]

Re:

I don't see why there is a distinction between hanging onto a car for 10 secs+ and hanging onto a bottle for 10 secs+. Same practical advantage

But anyway, was there any evidence Nibali was hanging onto the car ? From the video that was posted it was impossible to say, only that he was clearly hanging on to something

LOL.

The difference is about 20-40 mph. That's all.

 

[Son of Amsterhammer]

Re:

No, can't imagine his words since have helped.

Though there is obvious truth in his complaints about his team's lack of support. Anyone spot Astana on the front trying to block or at least ease the pace? Any sign of them dropping off the back to help him get back on? On the youtube clips he's clearly battering on, hoovering up those who managed to get back on a bike quicker than him: looks like he's got twenty or thirty managing to hang onto his wheel. Then the Astana car whizzes up and pulls over next to Nibali and the riders behind him (and now behind the car) pause in their pedal stroke for a moment and in that moment Nibbles is 10 metres ahead and gone. Their hearts, not unnaturally, drop out of their bottoms. They all ease off and by the time Nibali is 30 metres away the long line of his chasers has bunched right up, showing how much they've slowed.
So the ridiculous speed his gap increased was mainly down to the fact that the others stopped riding.
The illusion that the Astana car picked Nibali up then accelerated to tow him clear is, mainly, just an illusion.

If Nibbles deserves to be kicked out it's because of what he says. "ho sbagliato" - I have made a mistake. a typing error or missing your motorway exit or adding 27 and 35 and getting 52 - those are mistakes: choosing to break the rules is cheating.

I can see if you are supporting Nibs you would argue that this is the case. I think it's partly true, but as the car continues to go off into the distance, to me at least, it does appear to be accelerating and going faster than the riders were seconds before. It's a judgement call though based on the video.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

I don't see why there is a distinction between hanging onto a car for 10 secs+ and hanging onto a bottle for 10 secs+. Same practical advantage

But anyway, was there any evidence Nibali was hanging onto the car ? From the video that was posted it was impossible to say, only that he was clearly hanging on to something

LOL.

The difference is about 20-40 mph. That's all.

?
If I hang on to a car doing 40 mph how fast am I going?
If I hang on to a bottle in a car doing 40 mph how fast am I going ?

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I don't see why there is a distinction between hanging onto a car for 10 secs+ and hanging onto a bottle for 10 secs+. Same practical advantage

But anyway, was there any evidence Nibali was hanging onto the car ? From the video that was posted it was impossible to say, only that he was clearly hanging on to something

LOL.

The difference is about 20-40 mph. That's all.

?
If I hang on to a car doing 40 mph how fast am I going?
If I hang on to a bottle in a car doing 40 mph how fast am I going ?

That was the difference. In one there was a clear blatant acceleration. In the other, well, we are not sure.
In the first one you might say we did not see he was doing it with a bottle, but at that speed I bet he was hanging onto the car, otherwise he would be risking a major crash at that speed. Big difference. That's why it was inferred that he was holding onto a car. Besides they can ask the other riders who were standing behind and watching in shock.
I thought about the mechanics the first time that I saw it and then I drew my conclusion that He put his head down and hung onto the car. There was just too much speed. For how long? don't know but it was enough time on television to merit expulsion anyway. I bet it went for a lot longer than what he said. 150 m? no way.