Ninja of the Tour

[Pricey_sky]

I still think ninja of the tour should be given to the most anonymous T20 rider, now that I think everyone has broken at least 1 of the rules set out it should just be who's noticeable the least. So Frank would still be a leading candidate, Mollema and Samu too.

 

[joe_papp]

Re:

Yes, sure SSanchez is (may) the last ninja still standing... (Sorry Zubeldia fans, but him is wayyyy out of contention)...
But here is the real sleeper still left: Roman-the-passport-Kreuziger. No T-10s, no mention on TVs, no interviews, not even mentioned in the ninja thread itself , and yet laying pretty in position 22 CG...

Wait - Kreuziger is riding the Tour?

ninja...

 

[hrotha]

Re:

I still think ninja of the tour should be given to the most anonymous T20 rider, now that I think everyone has broken at least 1 of the rules set out it should just be who's noticeable the least. So Frank would still be a leading candidate, Mollema and Samu too.

No way. Frank's move yesterday was superb, he was going for a stage win, which is very un-ninja-like, and at some point he became a threat even for the podium guys. That's exactly the kind of thing people ask of the top 15 guys, and the complete opposite of what a ninja does.

By contrast, Mollema put in a late attack when everybody was looking at each other, an attack that only netted him a handful of seconds and, more importantly, that *couldn't* have netted any substantially bigger gap than that. To make matters even better, yesterday Mollema had his teammates chase Frank before being dropped rather pathetically himself and not being a factor at all, which is something that shouldn't be overlooked.

Samu doesn't even have a sad attack like Mollema's in his portfolio. He's just there. However, even though he hasn't exactly killed himself for TJVG, he couldn't have been expected to move when his leader only wanted to follow wheels. We'll see how he goes the next few days, but if he doesn't do anything he could very well "win" this.

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Re:

I still think ninja of the tour should be given to the most anonymous T20 rider, now that I think everyone has broken at least 1 of the rules set out it should just be who's noticeable the least. So Frank would still be a leading candidate, Mollema and Samu too.

But Mollema has been very prominent?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

The rules I proposed in the first post would have given a top 20 winner in all the years I checked. I put forward an objective criteria because I presented it as a guess who would be the best place anonymous rider, and if it is a competition, no matter how light-hearted, it can't be subjective. Anonymity, if you like, as determined by top 10 finishes.

The top three thus defined are Bak (32nd), Rogers (34th) and Losada (40th): Zubeldia, typically, narrowly avoids even this podium in 42nd.

If I had proposed ignoring the team time trial, our top three would now be Sánchez (13th), Kreuziger (22nd) and Kangert (28th)

If I had decided that top 9 was significant, but top 10 wasn't, then Barguil would be the leader, and if I had suggested ignoring the TTT and anything outside the top 5 on a stage, then Contador, Nibali, Mollema and Barguil would all be counted at ninjas.

The objectivity of the search for a ninja breaks down because TV producers are not objective. If Barguil were not French, he would have done nothing to draw attention to himself, but because of his nationality, his attempts to stay in contact with the top riders have been a major feature in the edits.

 

[BeagRigh]

I think the entire cofidis team should be awarded honoury-ninja status!

 

[Sylvester]

Sanchez surely is the man to beat now.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Armchair cyclist

I think TTT results should be completely dropped. Becausethe a true ninja just rolls along in slipstream, having no influence if his team tops 10 or not. And a T-10 in TTT is pretty easy. Circa 40% of riders make the T-10 there... In other stages circa 5% of riders make the T-10, depending how many riders still in the race...

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re: Re:

Yes, sure SSanchez is (may) the last ninja still standing... (Sorry Zubeldia fans, but him is wayyyy out of contention)...
But here is the real sleeper still left: Roman-the-passport-Kreuziger. No T-10s, no mention on TVs, no interviews, not even mentioned in the ninja thread itself , and yet laying pretty in position 22 CG...

Wait - Kreuziger is riding the Tour?

ninja...

Kreuziger; so ninja that even his name hides the N

Thread closed

 

[Pantani Attacks]

Re: Re:

Yes, sure SSanchez is (may) the last ninja still standing... (Sorry Zubeldia fans, but him is wayyyy out of contention)...
But here is the real sleeper still left: Roman-the-passport-Kreuziger. No T-10s, no mention on TVs, no interviews, not even mentioned in the ninja thread itself: , and yet laying pretty in position 22 CG...

Wait - Kreuziger is riding the Tour?

ninja...

Kreuziger; so ninja that even his name hides the N

Thread closed

What?

 

[Stilletto]

Ok having a pop ;
Zubeldia the obvious choice, he currently sits at 51 overall
Just noticed a few ahead of him tho
Dan Martin
Luis Mate even ???

 

[Andy262]

If Cherel hadn't sneaked an 8th surely a massive contender. Have barely noticed him in TV coverage.

 

[djpbaltimore]

If Sepulveda hadn't been noticed getting into a car, I think he would've gotten the completely anonymous top 20 of past winners. He still has a lot to learn about the ways of the ninja.

 

[carton]

Re: Re:

I still think ninja of the tour should be given to the most anonymous T20 rider, now that I think everyone has broken at least 1 of the rules set out it should just be who's noticeable the least. So Frank would still be a leading candidate, Mollema and Samu too.

No way. Frank's move yesterday was superb, he was going for a stage win, which is very un-ninja-like, and at some point he became a threat even for the podium guys. That's exactly the kind of thing people ask of the top 15 guys, and the complete opposite of what a ninja does.

By contrast, Mollema put in a late attack when everybody was looking at each other, an attack that only netted him a handful of seconds and, more importantly, that *couldn't* have netted any substantially bigger gap than that. To make matters even better, yesterday Mollema had his teammates chase Frank before being dropped rather pathetically himself and not being a factor at all, which is something that shouldn't be overlooked.

Samu doesn't even have a sad attack like Mollema's in his portfolio. He's just there. However, even though he hasn't exactly killed himself for TJVG, he couldn't have been expected to move when his leader only wanted to follow wheels. We'll see how he goes the next few days, but if he doesn't do anything he could very well "win" this.

Agree with the picks and analysis. However, Serge Pauwels is sneaking up in this thing. Invisible even in the breakaways.

 

[Sylvester]

Pauwels has been in five breaks and three top-tens. Surely no ninja.

Chérel has in fact been invisible in breaks, but Sanchez is still the man to beat.

 

[carton]

Re:

Pauwels has been in five breaks and three top-tens. Surely no ninja.

Chérel has in fact been invisible in breaks, but Sanchez is still the man to beat.

9/6/4. It's the fourth place that does him in, perhaps. On the flip side doubt anyone seeing the race outside Belgium or wherever he's from (only half kidding) on TV has Pauwels withing 10 spots of current GC spot.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

If SSanchez somehow sneaks in a T-10 in the next couple of stages, then Kreuziger is the winner. Another awesome 33rd at the stage today, yet improving to, and sneaking in the T-20 CG...

 

[Tarnum]

Re: Re:

I think MTN being 2nd in team standing is perhaps the most ninja part of the race. I mean, they clearly are attracting attention, but not in a going-for-the-team-standing way.

 

[Wunengzi]

Re:

The objectivity of the search for a ninja breaks down because TV producers are not objective. If Barguil were not French, he would have done nothing to draw attention to himself, but because of his nationality, his attempts to stay in contact with the top riders have been a major feature in the edits.

What do you mean, he didn't do anything to draw attention to himself? He actually did, trying to assassinate Thomas so he could get higher in the GC. On first glance, this would appear to be a very ninja-like thing to do. But a real ninja would have succeeded in such attempt. And, more importantly, a real ninja would not have been caught, especially not on TV where the whole world could see it. If this didn't happen you would be right, but it did happen and it rules him out as a contender for this title.

 

[Pricey_sky]

With Frank getting lots more air time on yesterdays stage it's looking as though Samu could have this in the bag. I agree with Foxxy though that Kreuziger is creeping into contention.

 

[joe_papp]

Re: Re:

The objectivity of the search for a ninja breaks down because TV producers are not objective. If Barguil were not French, he would have done nothing to draw attention to himself, but because of his nationality, his attempts to stay in contact with the top riders have been a major feature in the edits.

What do you mean, he didn't do anything to draw attention to himself? He actually did, trying to assassinate Thomas so he could get higher in the GC. On first glance, this would appear to be a very ninja-like thing to do. But a real ninja would have succeeded in such attempt. And, more importantly, a real ninja would not have been caught, especially not on TV where the whole world could see it. If this didn't happen you would be right, but it did happen and it rules him out as a contender for this title.

Such an awesome thread.

I know I said that like twice already, but the above post is just brilliant analysis of the challenges of seeking to follow the way of the ninja.

 

[Jagartrott]

Real ninja's don't make it into this thread.
That's how good they are.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Re:

If SSanchez somehow sneaks in a T-10 in the next couple of stages, then Kreuziger is the winner. Another awesome 33rd at the stage today, yet improving to, and sneaking in the T-20 CG...

... and there you go, SSanchez finishing 10th today, thus out of competition, that leaves us with? With? Yep, excactly...

... Mr. Ninja 2015 Roman-the-passport-Kreuziger

Real ninja's don't make it into this thread.
That's how good they are.

OK, this one is to be blamed on me. If I havnt brought up Kreuziger he wouldnt even make this thread...

... so; Kreuziger watch update:
Ofc improving to a now solid 17th place in CG without making a stage T-10

 

[Guybrush]

Kreuziger is + 57' 49'' too far back.

Not a real ninja this year

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

By OP rules he is. But if you find another one, feel free to let us all know... SSanchez is out. At least german commentators talked lengths of him today, plus he was on finish line interview yesterday, and ofc finally got his T-10 placing...

57 mins or not, Kreuziger stands tall at 17th... the 2015 true TdF-Ninja