No No Machado?

[theswordsman]

I noticed Jack Bobridge in the Giro d'Italia results for Garmin. He's a twenty year old neo-pro, and he's riding in a grand tour, so I guess we can follow along and see if Garmin is ruining his career, or if he has a really good 2011. Maybe no one at Team Garmin is familiar with the rule often cited here?

 

[issoisso]

I noticed Jack Bobridge in the Giro d'Italia results for Garmin. He's a twenty year old neo-pro, and he's riding in a grand tour, so I guess we can follow along and see if Garmin is ruining his career, or if he has a really good 2011. Maybe no one at Team Garmin is familiar with the rule often cited here?

Vaughters said that, as he's a neo-pro, he'll be pulled out after a week or two at the maximum, so as not to ruin him.

Same as Meyer last year

 

[BroDeal]

I would like to see a physiological reason for riders having the rest of their career affected by doing a GT at too young of an age. It sounds like an old soigneur's tale.

 

[Polish]

I noticed Jack Bobridge in the Giro d'Italia results for Garmin. He's a twenty year old neo-pro, and he's riding in a grand tour, so I guess we can follow along and see if Garmin is ruining his career, or if he has a really good 2011. Maybe no one at Team Garmin is familiar with the rule often cited here?

Lance also raced the TdF as a first year Neo-Pro:

"Lance had won the stage to Verdun (his first), and then abandoned on stage 10 per the plan since this was his first Tour. Anderson was riding what would be his final Tour, I believe.
Won a stage in that tour."


Careful with that hotsauce Lance!

http://www.bobmina.com/1993_TourDeFrance.htm

 

[mightymac12]

Careful with that hotsauce Lance!

http://www.bobmina.com/1993_TourDeFrance.htm

I love the comedy with the hot-sauce comment/pic. (I am waiting to get flamed for the comment. But I got a great laugh)

 

[Steampunk]

1. Big names certainly help a race, but I don't see the Schlecks doing more than using California as a primer for bigger fish later this summer. Saxo Bank's team looks fantastic on paper, but unless Cancellara takes almost three minutes from everybody else in the ITT, then the team is touring, not racing.

2. Earlier comment about the decline of this special generation of American cyclists and its potential impact on racing in North America. Love him or hate him, Lance is a draw. Levi, George, et al., too. How long will California last without these guys in the field? Race sponsors aren't going to get behind a bunch of young Americans and top Europeans the American viewers don't know. Not to be too much of a pessimist, but I'm not sure the ToC will last another five years. Which would be a shame. Then again, maybe the oil crisis will make cycling hip again.

3. Machado: not much help to the team. And if they pull him from the TdF, that's one less horse for Lance. Maybe in the Vuelta, but has Radioshack got an invite?

 

[Kamikaze]

Here it is...so you guys can stop speculating.

From Bruyneel blog:

Tiago's a great talent and has certainly been very impressive. He's been working very hard and has a great mentor in Jose Azevedo. It's great to see him make a smooth transition to the ProTour, be a reliable teammate and produce. Now I know from the Twitter and Facebook posts that there's a group pushing for him to make the Tour team. Do I believe he will be there one year? Yes. Is this the year? No. And there's a couple reasons for that. The easy answer is that we can only take nine riders and when you look at our roster, there's a bunch of riders who already have the Tour experience or completed numerous Giros and Vueltas and are ready for the next "step." But truthfully, Tiago needs to gain more experience. And that's not a bad thing. Developing into a Tour rider just takes time and luckily we're not in a position where we need to rush that development. He's slotted to do the Vuelta and we'll continue to work with him so he's learning, developing and improving. We want to see him be a strong teammate and continue to develop. If he produces like he did last week - even better, but we're trying to give him small objectives and keep a narrow focus where he can handle the appropriate challenges we put forward.

Good enough for you guys?

 

[richwagmn]

No ToC isn't as big or as glamorous a race as the Giro but it's rise from nothing to a big race is pretty impressive. At this rate it will only take a couple more years for the ToC competition to be equitable with the Giro competition.

.

I'm fairly certain the ToC will never be seriously mentioned in the same breath as the Giro. Winning the Giro is a big deal. Winning the ToC is more of a shoulder shrug.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No, because I fear that Bruyneel's idea of "developing him into a Tour rider" means "making him far less fun". Is Bruyneel's decision to withhold him from this year's Tour sensible and rational? Yes. But would I rather watch Tiago Machado than every other rider on the Radioshack roster put together? You bet.

 

[richwagmn]

I would like to see a physiological reason for riders having the rest of their career affected by doing a GT at too young of an age. It sounds like an old soigneur's tale.

I wonder about this too.

LeMond rode his first tour at age 24 and finished 3rd. Merckx won his first tour in 69 at the age of 24. Hinault won his first tour in 78 at the age of 24.

Doesn't seem like much of a problem for these guys.

Of course these guys are all scrubs compared to LA, the greatest cyclist of all time according to John Wilcockson, who waited until he was 28.

 

[issoisso]

I wonder about this too.

LeMond rode his first tour at age 24 and finished 3rd. Merckx won his first tour in 69 at the age of 24. Hinault won his first tour in 78 at the age of 24.

Doesn't seem like much of a problem for these guys.

It's been stated a few times already, but what the heck, let's restate it once again

It has NOTHING to do with age, but with experience.

Those three you mentioned....Merckx rode his first Tour during his 5th pro season. Hinault his 4th, LeMond his 4th. Perfect examples of why you should wait.

Now compare Fignon who was arguably more impressive than any of them at 22 and 23.....and then spent the rest of his career hampered by injuries that he keeps blaming on racing too many GTs too soon.

 

[ferryman]

I noticed Jack Bobridge in the Giro d'Italia results for Garmin. He's a twenty year old neo-pro, and he's riding in a grand tour, so I guess we can follow along and see if Garmin is ruining his career, or if he has a really good 2011. Maybe no one at Team Garmin is familiar with the rule often cited here?

No hiding places on Stage 4 of the Giro. It's the ITT and Garmin are one top man down after Vandelvede crashed out yesterday. Expect a good ride by Bobridge and the others in Garmin, with Millar going for for the jersey

 

[craig1985]

I would like to see a physiological reason for riders having the rest of their career affected by doing a GT at too young of an age. It sounds like an old soigneur's tale.

Wasn't a problem for Felice Gimondi, first year as a professional, he had the Tour de France under his belt, after four years he had the Giro and the Vuelta won. Then Eddy Merckx came along.

Bummer.

 

[issoisso]

Wasn't a problem for Felice Gimondi, first year as a professional, he had the Tour de France under his belt, after four years he had the Giro and the Vuelta won. Then Eddy Merckx came along.

Bummer.

Notice how he never again achieved his 1965 level. His win was effortless. He dominated. After that, he kept finishing behind the guys he'd effortlessly beaten that first year.

Like Fignon, basically

 

[Zambeaux]

Notice how he never again achieved his 1965 level. His win was effortless. He dominated. After that, he kept finishing behind the guys he'd effortlessly beaten that first year.

Like Fignon, basically

He may not had been a great dominator, but he managed to win practically everything during the Merckx era. I think that's more than enough.

And who went past Fignon in '84?

 

[woodburn]

It seems that the previous tours of those eras also involved a lot more climbing than today. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[Michielveedeebee]

Because he's a neo-pro. Having him race the Tour this early is the best way to make sure he never fulfills his potential.

he's not a neo-pro he won young rider classification in 2008 in volta a Portugal for example

 

[Michielveedeebee]

No hiding places on Stage 4 of the Giro. It's the ITT and Garmin are one top man down after Vandelvede crashed out yesterday. Expect a good ride by Bobridge and the others in Garmin, with Millar going for for the jersey

I must say that Bobridge slightly dissapointed me...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

he's not a neo-pro he won young rider classification in 2008 in volta a Portugal for example

2007 and 2009. 2008's best young rider in the Volta was Dan Martin.

 

[issoisso]

He may not had been a great dominator, but he managed to win practically everything during the Merckx era. I think that's more than enough.

And who went past Fignon in '84?

You're looking at the wrong year. He did two GTs in his first two seasons, completely dominated and.........then started getting injury after injury after injury and was never the same again.

The irony in that is that Guimard was afraid back in '83 that he might be pushing Fignon too far too soon. Now he freely admits he should've listened to his own instincts.

he's not a neo-pro he won young rider classification in 2008 in volta a Portugal for example

Methinks you don't know the definition of neo-pro

2007 and 2009. 2008's best young rider in the Volta was Dan Martin.

He won it in 2008 as well. He was a few seconds behind Martin going into the final time trial and took the jersey there.

 

[Zambeaux]

You're looking at the wrong year. He did two GTs in his first two seasons, completely dominated and.........then started getting injury after injury after injury and was never the same again.

The irony in that is that Guimard was afraid back in '83 that he might be pushing Fignon too far too soon. Now he freely admits he should've listened to his own instincts.



Methinks you don't know the definition of neo-pro



He won it in 2008 as well. He was a few seconds behind Martin going into the final time trial and took the jersey there.

Well, 1983 was his second season, in his first season he ran one GT, the Giro, in which he finished 15th.

Anyway, it's obvious that, apart from his 1989 season, Fignon's career wasn't up to the enormous expectations that generated in '84, but that was mainly because of physical problems: i believe it's safe to say that Fignon was never the same after his leg injury in 1985. Can that be because he raced too much in his early years? Maybe, but let's bear in mind that knee ang leg issues were pretty common among the peloton back in the 80's, and Hinault, who didn't debut in a GT until he was 23, had similar problems that ended up cutting short his career. Maybe their preparations had more to do with it than their calendar. I think there are better examples of riders who shone too early for their own good, like Gianbattista Baronchelli or Erik Breukink

About the initial subject, that is Machado, right?. We can certainly call him a neo-pro, but in this case it's no more than a technicality, as he's been riding the portuguese calendar as well as part of the spanish for the last five years, in the last two being one of the leading riders of the portuguese peloton. So, at 24, I don't think it's too early for him to debut on a GT, and I assume he will be part of the Radioshack roster for the Vuelta.

 

[Tom T.]

The Machado hype train left the station several moths ago, mightymac, and you missed the Inter-Sagan Express too. Sorry. You might be able to get a late seat on the Richie Porte wagon if you hurry.

I'm still paying for my ride on the Pecharroman Express a few years ago.

 

[issoisso]

About the initial subject, that is Machado, right?. We can certainly call him a neo-pro, but in this case it's no more than a technicality, as he's been riding the portuguese calendar as well as part of the spanish for the last five years, in the last two being one of the leading riders of the portuguese peloton. So, at 24, I don't think it's too early for him to debut on a GT, and I assume he will be part of the Radioshack roster for the Vuelta.

You have my agreement there. Like I said before, it's too early for him to do the Tour, but it'll be good for him to do the Vuelta.

 

[Fester]

You have my agreement there. Like I said before, it's too early for him to do the Tour, but it'll be good for him to do the Vuelta.

The Issue with Machado is this: "Technically a neo-pro" he has been riding a mostly professional calendar and been paid for it for 5 years. Then very soon after passing to continental he finds himself team leader. In this role he does not learn how to be a team player. Now he is in a situation where he need to learn quickly how to work for others, at least while the old guard are still around, if he wants to ride GT's etc. RadioShack has plenty of leader, it needs workers. He isn't experienced in this.

That's what I think Bruyneel meant when he said he can't ride in a bunch etc...