Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Apr 22, 2012
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@Libertine and when the competition is between Svendsen, JTB and Martin, it's more understandable people cheer for Martin then, for you too I think.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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I don't understand some people here didn't already mention that American tracks aren't very hard. When it was about Nove Mesto, some were quick to mention that tracks there are not that interesting (or even really dull). Same for some other tracks like Antholz, or Oestersund. Nobody ever mentioned the track are dull until in response to Nove Mesto. Special care for Nove Mesto, nice :)
Not to say that nobody mentioned how empty tribunes are.
 
Re:

Kokoso said:
@Libertine and when the competition is between Svendsen, JTB and Martin, it's more understandable people cheer for Martin then, for you too I think.
And how often has the competition included Svendsen lately? So far in 2016 it is Anton and Schempp aka "German Fourcade" who has been challenging Fourcade the most. Johannes is also way more likeable than Fourcade, but that's just my opinion.
 
Nah, Johannes is a tool. If he was as successful as Fourcade he'd be way less likable, since Martin doesn't seem like a bad guy off the trails, whereas Johannes would be behaving more arrogantly than Martin on the trails, and more attention-seeking than Martin's brother off them.

Kokoso, I'm sad they're at Presque Isle rather than Fort Kent which has much tougher trails. Apparently there was some discussion on French TV on why fans seem to be cooling off on Soukalová as opposed to a couple of years ago, they asekd Dorin Habert who said that people just simply find Wierer more charismatic (she neglected to comment regarding herself, because unlike some of her teammates she's self-deprecating and honest), and Florence Baverel said that Soukalová is simply not as accessible to the media or approachable to the fans (which surprised me, last time I was at the World Cup she seemed relatively approachable compared to some, but that may have changed with the fight for the overall) and is more "in her own little bubble". I know we've discussed our own personal positions on her at great length and it's not worth going round again, but it's interesting that, especially compared to when she was one of the darlings of the sport 2-3 years ago, the fan love for her has dropped away enough that it's been noticeable to the media.

You act like you think there is some conspiracy to disparage the Czech Republic and keep it out of the centre of the sport, because some fans don't like the current Czech superstar, and don't like the trails at the national course (even while acknowledging there are other Czech athletes that they like, and that the atmosphere at NMNM is superb). That's all it is.
 
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Nastyy said:
Celia Aymonier could be a force to be reckoned with in the near future if she keeps developing at this rate. Only switched over from XC for this season and is shooting quite decently already, just needs some consistency and maybe needs to be a bit quicker on the range as well. She was the faster skier on yesterday's sprint so her XC background shows, even though she wasn't near the elite in XC.
Célia is quickly becoming my favorite. She needed a bit of experience with the shooting, but has make incredible progress the past few races. Also a very nice person, I love her interviews (even if she does say "cool" a bit too often!). The French women now have better depth than the men I think, or at least on par.
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
I cannot fathom why anybody would actually cheer for Martin Fourcade. It must be really boring when any race you don't podium is a let-down, and they hardly ever happen anyway.

I mean, I still like him more than Soukalová, and sure he's an incredible athlete whose achievements are amazing, but to want to cheer for him? Unless you're French, there's no excuse. It's like cheering for Marit Bjørgen.
Got to admit that when the pressure is on, like yesterday at the second standing shoot, Fourcade really has an advantage.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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the lady's 5k had nothing new nor exciting to watch except the justuna's apparent improvement of form. diggins ? well...isn't she supposed to dig in her heels given the name :)

the men though produced an a a very welcome no norsemen on the podium. the vyleg victory of course is no surprise given his improving shape, but the truth be told he seldom does so well in the individual races. must be the brilliant pacing too. manificat on the classic podium is a slight surprise, yep, just a little bit, but the course tough profile must be helpful to the 'little' guys like him and vyleg when herring bone was the optimum mode of getting up.

again, congratulation to maxim on an impressive win.
 
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python said:
the lady's 5k had nothing new nor exciting to watch except the justuna's apparent improvement of form. diggins ? well...isn't she supposed to dig in her heels given the name :)

the men though produced an a a very welcome no norsemen on the podium. the vyleg victory of course is no surprise given his improving shape, but the truth be told he seldom does so well in the individual races. must be the brilliant pacing too. manificat on the classic podium is a slight surprise, yep, just a little bit, but the course tough profile must be helpful to the 'little' guys like him and vyleg when herring bone was the optimum mode of getting up.

again, congratulation to maxim on an impressive win.
Manificat 'little?' No, he is what, 185 cm tall? Vylegzhanin's strength is when he stretches out on the hills. Vylegzhanin is small. He and Sundby are the same size, give or take a cm either way. Bessmertnykh is another guy that's like Manificat, perhaps even taller, but his classic is so good and these types of races suit him. I think the Russians hit their altitude training spot on before coming to Scandinavia last week. Perhaps even their skis were good today. What happened to Legkov? He didn't look good coming in, and his skis were not optimal. He had to herringbone, but I think he must have fell in the last km or so. He was actually making up a few places, threatening the top 10, but lost around more than 30 seconds to the leaders in the last 1.5-1.8 km (last time check before the finish.)
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
python said:
the lady's 5k had nothing new nor exciting to watch except the justuna's apparent improvement of form. diggins ? well...isn't she supposed to dig in her heels given the name :)

the men though produced an a a very welcome no norsemen on the podium. the vyleg victory of course is no surprise given his improving shape, but the truth be told he seldom does so well in the individual races. must be the brilliant pacing too. manificat on the classic podium is a slight surprise, yep, just a little bit, but the course tough profile must be helpful to the 'little' guys like him and vyleg when herring bone was the optimum mode of getting up.

again, congratulation to maxim on an impressive win.
Manificat 'little?' No, he is what, 185 cm tall? Vylegzhanin's strength is when he stretches out on the hills. Vylegzhanin is small. He and Sundby are the same size, give or take a cm either way. Bessmertnykh is another guy that's like Manificat, perhaps even taller, but his classic is so good and these types of races suit him. I think the Russians hit their altitude training spot on before coming to Scandinavia last week. Perhaps even their skis were good today. What happened to Legkov? He didn't look good coming in, and his skis were not optimal. He had to herringbone, but I think he must have fell in the last km or so. He was actually making up a few places, threatening the top 10, but lost around more than 30 seconds to the leaders in the last 1.5-1.8 km (last time check before the finish.)
..'little' (note the quotation mark) was referring to his relatively dry, lean body built. to my eye he's somewhat similar to hellner...at 72-73 kg (he's 181) that's lighter than the bulky 80kg guys - which is likely another reason he's such a superb climber in addition to his great motor and the splendid technique.

the russian success is well deserved but note the very narrow gaps - mere seconds. they often raise their shape in february (potentially peaking for wc or the olympics absent this year). also, it is likely the norges have either plateaued or off the season peak (in general). note how sundby could not do anything at the end even though he was in a perfect position being fed the spits. also, note how eversen gradually fell behind towards the end.

legkov imo started faster than he could have sustained, he's an emotional chap, but it's just a guess...bessmertnych is a pleasure to watch in a classic stride. belov, though, was far behind his classic potential.
 
Re: Re:

python said:
BullsFan22 said:
python said:
the lady's 5k had nothing new nor exciting to watch except the justuna's apparent improvement of form. diggins ? well...isn't she supposed to dig in her heels given the name :)

the men though produced an a a very welcome no norsemen on the podium. the vyleg victory of course is no surprise given his improving shape, but the truth be told he seldom does so well in the individual races. must be the brilliant pacing too. manificat on the classic podium is a slight surprise, yep, just a little bit, but the course tough profile must be helpful to the 'little' guys like him and vyleg when herring bone was the optimum mode of getting up.

again, congratulation to maxim on an impressive win.
Manificat 'little?' No, he is what, 185 cm tall? Vylegzhanin's strength is when he stretches out on the hills. Vylegzhanin is small. He and Sundby are the same size, give or take a cm either way. Bessmertnykh is another guy that's like Manificat, perhaps even taller, but his classic is so good and these types of races suit him. I think the Russians hit their altitude training spot on before coming to Scandinavia last week. Perhaps even their skis were good today. What happened to Legkov? He didn't look good coming in, and his skis were not optimal. He had to herringbone, but I think he must have fell in the last km or so. He was actually making up a few places, threatening the top 10, but lost around more than 30 seconds to the leaders in the last 1.5-1.8 km (last time check before the finish.)
..'little' (note the quotation mark) was referring to his relatively dry, lean body built. to my eye he's somewhat similar to hellner...at 72-73 kg (he's 181) that's lighter than the bulky 80kg guys - which is likely another reason he's such a superb climber in addition to his great motor and the splendid technique.

the russian success is well deserved but note the very narrow gaps - mere seconds. they often raise their shape in february (potentially peaking for wc or the olympics absent this year). also, it is likely the norges have either plateaued or off the season peak (in general). note how sundby could not do anything at the end even though he was in a perfect position being fed the spits. also, note how eversen gradually fell behind towards the end.

legkov imo started faster than he could have sustained, he's an emotional chap, but it's just a guess...bessmertnych is a pleasure to watch in a classic stride. belov, though, was far behind his classic potential.
Legkov has always been better at skating, no question. I actually think he's had an ok season, despite not being on the podium yet and he's been overtaken by a number of his teammates. I don't think he started too fast, like I said, he was slowly making up places as the race went on. That's why I am confused as to what happened. He skied with Sundby for a bit, but he had to herringbone more. This is more to do with technique today, I think. Maybe he did tire himself by making a move in the middle part of the race, and perhaps his glide was not too good, but not sure about that either. They didn't show him falling, if it was the case. Perhaps we will never know!

Anyway, are there no Swedes that can take the mantle from Hellner, Olsson, Richardsson, Soedergren?? Svensson, Burman...They have potential, but we'll have to wait a few years until they start getting on the podium, right?
 
Re:

Rider said:
Yep. Was just gonna post that. I assumed it was either a fall or something happened. It's too bad there were no cameras at that point of the course. His explanation of what happened more than explains why he lost so much time in the last 1.8 km. That's a real pity. He was gunning for the top 10 and another solid race, but it wasn't to be. I think tomorrow's race suits him more. I think he'll be one of the men to watch. The Russians will pressure the Norwegians tomorrow, so will Manificat. Heikkinen looks as if he is improving his form as well. Northug's plan was to race only the 15km this weekend. He'll be a little more fresh than the other contenders, but he did go all the way to the final Thursday and said after that sprint that he still felt the 50km from last weekend. My money is on a sprint to the finish with Vylegzhanin and Northug battling for the win. Ustiugov is a dark horse.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Nah, Johannes is a tool. If he was as successful as Fourcade he'd be way less likable, since Martin doesn't seem like a bad guy off the trails, whereas Johannes would be behaving more arrogantly than Martin on the trails, and more attention-seeking than Martin's brother off them.

Kokoso, I'm sad they're at Presque Isle rather than Fort Kent which has much tougher trails. Apparently there was some discussion on French TV on why fans seem to be cooling off on Soukalová as opposed to a couple of years ago, they asekd Dorin Habert who said that people just simply find Wierer more charismatic (she neglected to comment regarding herself, because unlike some of her teammates she's self-deprecating and honest), and Florence Baverel said that Soukalová is simply not as accessible to the media or approachable to the fans (which surprised me, last time I was at the World Cup she seemed relatively approachable compared to some, but that may have changed with the fight for the overall) and is more "in her own little bubble". I know we've discussed our own personal positions on her at great length and it's not worth going round again, but it's interesting that, especially compared to when she was one of the darlings of the sport 2-3 years ago, the fan love for her has dropped away enough that it's been noticeable to the media.

You act like you think there is some conspiracy to disparage the Czech Republic and keep it out of the centre of the sport, because some fans don't like the current Czech superstar, and don't like the trails at the national course (even while acknowledging there are other Czech athletes that they like, and that the atmosphere at NMNM is superb). That's all it is.
For the media? Since when is Dorin-Habert or Baverel media? :D I think it's BS. Notice that nobody in French TV even said explicitly that Soukalova really has less fans. Wishful dreaming I'd call that especially in case of you, we've seen that you can dream of (or make up) stories that never happened about Soukalova ;)
Look at the Czech media or German media, she's there more popular than ever before and has more fans than ever before. No drop in popularity certainly, rather opposite. With regards to Wierer, nobody knew her 2-3 years ago, it's only logical she has more fans nowadays when she's visible.
Conspiracy...lo. I only pointed out obvious, had no idea it was conspiracy :)

P.S. Soukalova buried her opponents briliantly yesterday, that was really something, chapeau :)
 
Sep 25, 2009
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the tactic in a falun massstart 15k for men (and for women too, but it wont matter) will largely be dictated by the course profile, which is one of the toughest of all w. cup races...of course the reason is the mördarbacken...

i dont know for sure, but think they will race the same 5km loopx3 they used in the 2015 w, ch. here it is - blue.
http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/document/General/04/45/22/Falun2015_course_Neutral.pdf

if so, those who plan to beat northug, will fail for sure if they wait till the last 2 humps.

will it be one of the russians or a finn or perhaps hellner (as i would love to see) or manificat or even clara ?

my opinion is that sundby, vyleg, legkov, harvey, manificat, holund, ustiugov and some more norges will be the leading group before the final lap.

of those, vyleg knows the course as the back of his hand and is a willy tactitian with a preference imo...
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
Conspiracy...lo. I only pointed out obvious, had no idea it was conspiracy :)
So you genuinely believe that everybody is desperately trying to disparage and discredit the achievements of the Czech Republic, and this is a transparent and genuine ploy?

And you're not patriotic, and get offended when people suggest it, but 90% of your comments are about Czech athletes and/or complaining that the Czechs don't get enough coverage and/or love, and you disappear from posting for weeks at a time only to reappear very quickly to rejoice in Czech triumphs or to put to rights those who say negative things about Czech favourites. I'm not the only one that's called you out, and others have rightly elected not to engage you in these discussions that I'm too stupid to avoid.

I don't dislike your country. I don't dislike your people. I sure as hell don't dislike your athletes as a general rule. I've even specified some of them that I am a fan of, which you are keen to ignore as it doesn't fit the persecution narrative you believe. I simply don't think Nové Mesto is a particularly interesting value and I can't stand Gabriela Soukalová, and it's clear you have every intent in needling me by making posts like the above (Baverel is media now, covering the races for French TV, for example, plus accusing me of making up stuff in the same post as you insist it's no conspiracy but a genuine fact that everybody is trying to discredit and block the Czechs from credit, and throwing in the chapeau to the athlete I dislike at the end).

I've had enough of going round in circles telling you this over and over again, even though I know you're the kind of childish debater who will see any failure to engage in your petty back-and-forth as victory and vindication of your position. And I'm sure it's getting pretty tedious to everybody else to read us rinse and repeat all over again.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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why is anyone falling so easily (and thus basically sinking the good racing thread) for for the very fatiguing koko whining about inattention or ignoring anything czech :confused:

it is the same-same for many years. koko whines and ls takes the hook by issuing the multi worded denials of disliking the czechs while those who want to post or simply read the content have to wade thru the pages of tired dialogues.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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it was just lovely !

i don't even care that the norges again missed the top 2 spots in as many days or that petter got a lecture in how to position for a final sprint. i was simply happy to see the coming up young talent of the xc sport raising to the top.

ustiugov and de fabiani, yep, are the future of the red-free zone. perhaps knaute was right that ustiugov is the absolutely best talent in the current field. perhaps she just wanted to boost her 'pupil'. but she appears wasn't far from the mark when the the owner of the 80kg + massive body was able to lift it 3 times up the mördarbacken and then sprint the way he did.
 
Re:

python said:
it was just lovely !

i don't even care that the norges again missed the top 2 spots in as many days or that petter got a lecture in how to position for a final sprint. i was simply happy to see the coming up young talent of the xc sport raising to the top.

ustiugov and de fabiani, yep, are the future of the red-free zone. perhaps knaute was right that ustiugov is the absolutely best talent in the current field. perhaps she just wanted to boost her 'pupil'. but she appears wasn't far from the mark when the the owner of the 80kg + massive body was able to lift it 3 times up the mördarbacken and then sprint the way he did.

The German commentator on ARD literally said that "Ustiugov's ambitions/chances at a podium today are now over," after he started dropping back on the Morderbacken on the last loop. It did seem like his energy level was dropping after he led for half a lap, but you could tell he wasn't going anywhere. I think he pulled a Northug. He dropped in the pack, close to the back, but then made it through and destroyed Sundby and the rest on the final sharp uphill before the finish area. Honestly, if you followed the race closely, you could see he was actually a little fortunate coming over the bridge. He went in the middle, and avoided a slight traffic problem on either side. That's where Northug (I think it was him) and another Norwegian were, but because you have a slinky effect or a draft effect, people get sucked back in and everything tightens. Those guys were held back a little, but Ustiugov gunned the middle, where there was space and he maintained contact with the top few skiers. Looking back at that now, that was where his chance could have ended. Deserving win though, no doubt. He's had a very consistent season, never far off the leaders in any race, but he's also had a couple falls (Davos, where he qualified 1st and fell in the final, would have won that one for sure, and in Stockholm where he crossed his skis) and in Drammen, he made a slight tactical error, which prevented him from advancing further. That's sport though. Congratulations to him and 3 wins in Sweden for the Russian men! If I were the Russians, I'd stay in Falun for a few extra days, see how much the good Swedish air, snow, ski trails, and....women...can help keep their momentum.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Re:

Mr. Brooks said:
Nordthug on the Russians' dominance: "They are destroying the sport."
that's just silly. how could they destroy something that the norges had already demolished :p
BullsFan22 said:
python said:
The German commentator on ARD literally said that "Ustiugov's ambitions/chances at a podium today are now over," after he started dropping back on the Morderbacken on the last loop.
i had long stopped putting any commenting on. particularly, b/c they (like that german) they are dodos. i mean, they usually know the sport and certainly don't mean to misread, but they often do, and therefore imo are superfluous. i usually follow races via the nrk or the svt. sometimes the eurosport. they are all competent but i find the hd quality allows me to follow the events w/o their noise.
I think he pulled a Northug.
that was my impression too. he's tactically maturing. will re-watch later to analyze those moments again.
 
Re: Re:

python said:
Mr. Brooks said:
Nordthug on the Russians' dominance: "They are destroying the sport."
that's just silly. how could they destroy something that the norges had already demolished :p
BullsFan22 said:
python said:
The German commentator on ARD literally said that "Ustiugov's ambitions/chances at a podium today are now over," after he started dropping back on the Morderbacken on the last loop.
i had long stopped putting any commenting on. particularly, b/c they (like that german) they are dodos. i mean, they usually know the sport and certainly don't mean to misread, but they often do, and therefore imo are superfluous. i usually follow races via the nrk or the svt. sometimes the eurosport. they are all competent but i find the hd quality allows me to follow the events w/o their noise.
I think he pulled a Northug.
that was my impression too. he's tactically maturing. will re-watch later to analyze those moments again.

How do you get NRK and/or SVT if you are not in Norway or Sweden? Some sort IP address change? I've never done an IP address change before, just because i felt it wasn't good for the system. NRK used to be fairly open to the foreign audience. I think it changed after Oslo 2011. I watched almost all the races via NRK from those championships. Then they put location restrictions, where if you aren't located in Norway, you can't access their feed.

Some commentators obviously want to make it exciting for the viewers (that's part of their job), some don't hold back and genuinely tell it like it is (excitement...) and some simply don't enough (my opinion). The British Eurosport guys are a combination. They (Goldstrom) doesn't know enough, even though he's commentated for Eurosport for YEARS, but he has Dixon and Winterton who are former skiers/biathletes so they know enough to keep everyone informed, but they go on about the same stuff every race, it seems like. The Russians are similar, just slightly different tone. The German commentators I feel like just commentate races as if they were heard by complete strangers of the sport. It's as if every race there are completely different people watching/listening and who don't know anything about the sport. One great example is mentioning Heidi Weng and how she is the eternal '2nd or 3...' Well, that's true, but surely there is something more interesting about her than all the podiums she's gotten over the years while only having one win.

Anyway, that's the boring/obnoxious part. The race was exciting, as expected and it's always good to see non-Norwegians winning, especially the youngsters like Ustiugov and De Fabiani.
 

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