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Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Re:

python said:
today is a day off at the tour...the pursuit results allow to make some tentative conclusions and projections. while cologna proved superior to ustiougov now in both skiing styles, it needs to be accounted for the specific conditions in lenzerheide - it was very warm and soft...not only the anthropomorphic/physical/individual differences may have played their role, but also the ski prep as well as the home zeal and support for dario.

while i would NOT overestimate his advantage over sergey (he tried but could not extend the initial gap in the pursuit), dario was a pleasure to watch. even on the last 4th lap when he said he was tired, his technique was superb whereas sergey looked wobbly and twisty. again, i tend NOT to think that the soft conditions disadvantaged ustiuogov more than dario - mainly b/c a heavier richardsson was the 2nd fastest in the same conditions.

here's the actual pursuit results:
http://medias2.fis-ski.com/pdf/2018/CC/2206/2018CC2206PRL.pdf

richardsson and larkov stand out. both are much better at a classic style, both showed virtually nothing all season, but did splendidly in the hilly skate. go figure. i mean ANY projections based on the past performances and preferences can be unreliable.

still, i will dare to predict that both ustiougov and bolshunov are likely to gain in the coming classic sprint compared to dario. even if they sweep the generous sprint bonuses, it seem insufficient to fatten their advantage looking at what sergey would need to feel comfortable BEFORE cermis.

Manificat, Larkov and Rickardsson skied together the entire race and they were moving very quickly. There was no waiting with them. It's too bad Manificat isn't a better sprinter, but that's the beauty of this format, you have to be proficient at both. Manificat won the classic sprint at high altitude in slow, slushy conditions on a tough/long-ish course in Canmore at the Tour of Canada in March 2016, so he can, once in a while produce, just not as much as he needs to in these tour races. Larkov and Rickardsson basically fed off Manificat and they latched on to the train and then catching the next 5-15 guys ahead of them and skied it in to the finish. It was a surprise to see those two ski so well, as you said because they are better classic skiers and also because of their rather unimpressive season so far. I think that's a good sign for both of them and for their teams as well, especially the Swedes, who've done almost nothing so far this season apart from Halfvarsson in the early weeks. Hellner also had a solid race, not surprisingly on that tough course in skating and being a 'light' skier.

It's hard to say what Ustiugov is thinking or what form he is in. Yes the conditions didn't really suit him, and he perhaps hasn't recovered from the effort he put in the sprint win on stage 1, but he showed last year that he can deal with consecutive racing and can recover...I think he and his coaches are playing it carefully with this tour. I am sure he would sacrifice defending his title for a gold in Korea, but from his interviews, that isn't the case. He said he's going to give it his all and see what happens. Cologna is in great shape, he is always rock solid in tour races, never seems to be far off, he knows the courses in Lenzerheide better than anyone else and the crowd support was quite impressive for him. Still, I don't think it's a disaster for Ustiugov. The tough part is the conditions in Oberstdorf and Val di Fiemme. The forecast calls for rain in Germany and rain/snow in Italy. That means soft/slow conditions. On those tough courses, it's going to be brutal. The mass start classic, where there's going to be a fight for bonus seconds is going to be a make or break race for the favorites. The sprint tomorrow however is just as important. Ustiugov probably needs to get in the top 3, if not win it and he'll need Cologna to perhaps not even get into the top 30 for him to get a nice buffer again. But that means expending a lot of energy and power before the 15km mass start on Thursday. It could all change by the end of that race as well.

Bolshunov, I think, is too young and inexperienced to get on the podium, and like I've been saying before, it was a mistake to bring him to the tour. He's raced almost every weekend since mid November and was sick prior to the tour (missed Toblach because of it). He's going to be burned out if he does the whole tour. I don't get the thinking in the coaches. Yeah it's nice to get world cup points and a podium or two, but there is only a month between the end of the tour and the Olympics. I don't really see how he'll recover, build up his form again and perform well in Korea. Klaebo has raced a lot as well, but he is skipping the tour and will race sparingly this month so he can train. Yes you need races to keep your body and mind sharp, but you also need to recover. I guess we'll see what happens. I just feel with an already depleted team, the Russians can't really afford to have guys like Ustiugov, Bolshunov, Chervotkin, Larkov... exhausted for the rest of the year and then be out of form for the Olympics.

I am interested to see what Sundby does. I actually think he makes it into the top 30 tomorrow, and that will be important for him, because he isn't in the form that he was last year. Ustiugov isn't either, but his form is sloooowly rising, where Sundby is...not sure...The rest of the Norwegians are in trouble apart from maybe Holund. Iversen should do well (he won two years ago on the very same course), but he can't distance skate and that final uphill will not be fun for him.

The German women have surprised so far. What can they do on home soil? Their men have been more or less bad, except for Thomas Bing, who's had a great last two days in Lenzerheide. None of the men have qualified for the Olympics so far, and that's troubling. For the women, I think only Ringwald has. Fessel and Boehler, 33 and 36 year old's, are on their way to qualifying, but this is likely their last year on the tour. It's worrying that their best two distance skiers are well into their 30's.

Good to see De Fabiani up there. He didn't have a good season last year, so hopefully he continues to improve. Would love to see the Italians challenge for relays again. They have De Fabiani, Noeckler, Salvadori and of course Pellegrino. Not a bad team if they are on form. But they are an even smaller team than the Germans and French and have relied on mostly Pellegrino and sometimes De Fabiani for podiums in the last 4-5 seasons.
 
Yea, but this is the problem I was concerned about in the past about how the current calendar gives no real motivation to be a distance skier, and the tendency of German XC skiing to lose a lot of its best talents to biathlon obviously hurts, especially in terms of having competitive Classic skiers. Ironically, in terms of the distance corps that's where they're likely to get their replenishment from, although Victoria Carl is a more than serviceable all-rounder; Miriam Neureuther is looking to return to Langlauf next year following her baby-break, having finally given up on marksmanship, while Sarah Schaber, former junior World Champion in the skiathlon, is a probable return after her attempt at biathlon was abortive, after taking to the IBU Cup with shooting stats that made Lars Berger look like Tora Berger.

I mean, I'm still expecting Denise to rock up in the Team Sprint at Pyeongchang, but they do at least have a variety of options there.
 
Jun 30, 2014
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Last year De Fabiani was building his form for the WC, but then he got sick right before the WC. Until now he had a bad season and a few strange results, in Toblach he was good in the freestyle race, but then he faded in the classic race, rather unusual.
How many guys in the top 10 will drop out? I could see Poltoranin dropping out, getting a podium will be really hard and getting a medal should be his top priority. Apparently Niskanen wants to drop out of the Tour because of the Olympics.
 
Re:

Singer01 said:
Who, if given the choice would make the brave decision to drop OEB from the Norwegian team for the Olympics? Boe, Boe and Svendsen are locks, but 3 other Norwegians currently rank higher than him.


I really can't see them dropping Bjoerndalen. He came good in 2014 when nobody expected him to, and after doing nothing at the 2010 Olympics. They wouldn't want to spoil his final season/Olympics by not taking him.
 
Re:

Mayomaniac said:
Last year De Fabiani was building his form for the WC, but then he got sick right before the WC. Until now he had a bad season and a few strange results, in Toblach he was good in the freestyle race, but then he faded in the classic race, rather unusual.
How many guys in the top 10 will drop out? I could see Poltoranin dropping out, getting a podium will be really hard and getting a medal should be his top priority. Apparently Niskanen wants to drop out of the Tour because of the Olympics.
I think it is almost a given that Iivo Niskanen will drop out after the sprint.

Pärmäkoski and Kerttu Niskanen might leave too, unwilling to risk an infection, we will see. Österberg and weng have both been speculated to quit, but maybe not If they are winning.

Mens pursuit was a fine race, probably due to having a track with proper longish climbs. I was expecting ustjugov to lose a bit more time but alas he did not. Very good base for 30min efforts even If The top end is missing still. Then again cologna was impressive but not supersonic, as others beat him on the stage.

Hard to see past cologna however. Hope the classical race with boni delivers, as some speculated above.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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there is a very rare opportunity to watch the prologue live on NRK1...women just finished, men start in 10 minutes or so.

the conditions are truly atrocious. rain, high wind, the commentators are in full body rain gear with hoods. year winter :rolleyes:

wow, the women had 'qualified' but not men. ALL men. their prologue is cancelled if i understand it right due to the weather.
 
Re:

python said:
there is a very rare opportunity to watch the prologue live on NRK1...women just finished, men start in 10 minutes or so.

the conditions are truly atrocious. rain, high wind, the commentators are in full body rain gear with hoods. year winter :rolleyes:

wow, the women had 'qualified' but not men. ALL men. their prologue is cancelled if i understand it right due to the weather.

I am pretty sure there won't be races tomorrow either.
 
Re: Re:

Bavarianrider said:
python said:
there is a very rare opportunity to watch the prologue live on NRK1...women just finished, men start in 10 minutes or so.

the conditions are truly atrocious. rain, high wind, the commentators are in full body rain gear with hoods. year winter :rolleyes:

wow, the women had 'qualified' but not men. ALL men. their prologue is cancelled if i understand it right due to the weather.

I am pretty sure there won't be races tomorrow either.

I am pretty sure there won't be any snow left on the ground tomorrow. Seriously though, there's something about Oberhof and Oberstdorf this time of year. There's almost always issues with weather. It was actually decent last year in Oberstdorf, but in 2016 they barely held the races. They had a patch of track to just have enough to make a 2.5 loop (if it was even that long) and the 15km race had to be run like 8 times or something. In 2015, there was snow but difficult waxing conditions. 2012, ironically rain the entire sprint day and icy conditions for the skiathlon....

It's too bad for everyone. Maybe should have kept the tour in Switzerland. Move it to Davos. Same kanton (Graubünden), good snow, very close to Lenzerheide...

What a mess, but very smart to cancel the race. It's way too dangerous.
 
Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
Bavarianrider said:
python said:
there is a very rare opportunity to watch the prologue live on NRK1...women just finished, men start in 10 minutes or so.

the conditions are truly atrocious. rain, high wind, the commentators are in full body rain gear with hoods. year winter :rolleyes:

wow, the women had 'qualified' but not men. ALL men. their prologue is cancelled if i understand it right due to the weather.

I am pretty sure there won't be races tomorrow either.

I am pretty sure there won't be any snow left on the ground tomorrow. Seriously though, there's something about Oberhof and Oberstdorf this time of year. There's almost always issues with weather. It was actually decent last year in Oberstdorf, but in 2016 they barely held the races. They had a patch of track to just have enough to make a 2.5 loop (if it was even that long) and the 15km race had to be run like 8 times or something. In 2015, there was snow but difficult waxing conditions. 2012, ironically rain the entire sprint day and icy conditions for the skiathlon....

It's too bad for everyone. Maybe should have kept the tour in Switzerland. Move it to Davos. Same kanton (Graubünden), good snow, very close to Lenzerheide...

What a mess, but very smart to cancel the race. It's way too dangerous.

To be fair this year it was really bad luck, the weeks prior it was fine winter weather. But it's of course true late December early January often brings this Kind of weather.
However, despite having enough snow, they still settled for the 2,5km Loop this year! That's really disappointing,they had no interest in having a more challenging Loop in the first place, even if the weather had been great! I really don't understand this.
 
Re: Re:

Bavarianrider said:
BullsFan22 said:
Bavarianrider said:
python said:
there is a very rare opportunity to watch the prologue live on NRK1...women just finished, men start in 10 minutes or so.

the conditions are truly atrocious. rain, high wind, the commentators are in full body rain gear with hoods. year winter :rolleyes:

wow, the women had 'qualified' but not men. ALL men. their prologue is cancelled if i understand it right due to the weather.

I am pretty sure there won't be races tomorrow either.

I am pretty sure there won't be any snow left on the ground tomorrow. Seriously though, there's something about Oberhof and Oberstdorf this time of year. There's almost always issues with weather. It was actually decent last year in Oberstdorf, but in 2016 they barely held the races. They had a patch of track to just have enough to make a 2.5 loop (if it was even that long) and the 15km race had to be run like 8 times or something. In 2015, there was snow but difficult waxing conditions. 2012, ironically rain the entire sprint day and icy conditions for the skiathlon....

It's too bad for everyone. Maybe should have kept the tour in Switzerland. Move it to Davos. Same kanton (Graubünden), good snow, very close to Lenzerheide...

What a mess, but very smart to cancel the race. It's way too dangerous.

To be fair this year it was really bad luck, the weeks prior it was fine winter weather. But it's of course true late December early January often brings this Kind of weather.
However, despite having enough snow, they still settled for the 2,5km Loop this year! That's really disappointing,they had no interest in having a more challenging Loop in the first place, even if the weather had been great! I really don't understand this.


Yeah it's a shame, because Oberstdorf does have excellent tracks. Very demanding. The sprint course itself has two big hills and two technical/fast downhills and a good amount of double poling into the stadium, so it's a really good, testing course for sprinting.

The distance courses they used in 2005 for World Champs was very tough. Since then, they've never used that entire system, it's generally been the 2.5 or 3.3 km loops, if I remember correctly. It would be great if they used a 5km loop. I understand the need for shorter loops for the sake of TV and coming through the stadium more often, but it's a waste of a great venue to just use the shortest possible distance laps. The spectators should be able to move around from area to area during the race. That's what I would have done there. Anyway I hope that they'll get to race in Oberstdorf and somehow manage to get in this classic sprint.
 
Bavarianrider said:
I ve just phoned with a Journalist in Oberstdorf. Apparently no decisio has benn made yet concerning tomorrow's race. Maybe there'll be asprint and the mass start will be axed.

Hmmm. I was also reading that they could move everything one day forward. Still have all the races but just one day later. That means the Alpe Cermis stage would take place on Monday instead of Sunday.

If the sprint is axed, then that's a disadvantage for people like Ustiugov. If the distance race is axed, then that's a disadvantage for Cologna and Sundby. So someone will be a bit unlucky.

If nothing else, they could have the distance race tomorrow. Give them the already scheduled rest day. Have the classic sprint at Val di Fiemme, followed by the 15km mass start classic on Sunday and final climb on Monday.
 
BullsFan22 said:
Bavarianrider said:
I ve just phoned with a Journalist in Oberstdorf. Apparently no decisio has benn made yet concerning tomorrow's race. Maybe there'll be asprint and the mass start will be axed.

Hmmm. I was also reading that they could move everything one day forward. Still have all the races but just one day later. That means the Alpe Cermis stage would take place on Monday instead of Sunday.

If the sprint is axed, then that's a disadvantage for people like Ustiugov. If the distance race is axed, then that's a disadvantage for Cologna and Sundby. So someone will be a bit unlucky.

If nothing else, they could have the distance race tomorrow. Give them the already scheduled rest day. Have the classic sprint at Val di Fiemme, followed by the 15km mass start classic on Sunday and final climb on Monday.

Okay, mass start will be Held tomorrow on the same alternative 2,5km Loop that they had to use due to a alck of snow some years ago. So it will be a pretty easy mass start in Terms of Profile.
 
Bavarianrider said:
So apparently there were plans to Held yesterday's sprint today and do today's mass start tomorrow.
But guess who was furious to block this idea? Exactly the Norwegians. They'll never change. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

the rules of the FIS wouldn't allow this anyway though:

There will be no postponement or substitution of FIS TOUR DE SKI competition in the case of a cancellation of an individual Stage except if there is no Stage scheduled for the following day. In this case, the Tour Board and Jury can decide to postpone a Stage by 24 hours.

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/Cross-Country/03/07/54/RulesWCCC_1718_oct2017_all_English.pdf (page 39)
 
search said:
Bavarianrider said:
So apparently there were plans to Held yesterday's sprint today and do today's mass start tomorrow.
But guess who was furious to block this idea? Exactly the Norwegians. They'll never change. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

the rules of the FIS wouldn't allow this anyway though:

There will be no postponement or substitution of FIS TOUR DE SKI competition in the case of a cancellation of an individual Stage except if there is no Stage scheduled for the following day. In this case, the Tour Board and Jury can decide to postpone a Stage by 24 hours.

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/Cross-Country/03/07/54/RulesWCCC_1718_oct2017_all_English.pdf (page 39)

Exactly, however, if all nations agree such a rule can be overturned. But the Norwegians wouldn't do it, so it was not possible to change the program. Ónly to help their number one cheat Sundby. That's simply pathetic, but no suprise, of course.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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it will be interesting to watch the norwegians and the russians employing the team tactics in the fight for the bonus seconds and how harvey and cologna will respond.
 
Bavarianrider said:
search said:
Bavarianrider said:
So apparently there were plans to Held yesterday's sprint today and do today's mass start tomorrow.
But guess who was furious to block this idea? Exactly the Norwegians. They'll never change. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

the rules of the FIS wouldn't allow this anyway though:

There will be no postponement or substitution of FIS TOUR DE SKI competition in the case of a cancellation of an individual Stage except if there is no Stage scheduled for the following day. In this case, the Tour Board and Jury can decide to postpone a Stage by 24 hours.

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/Cross-Country/03/07/54/RulesWCCC_1718_oct2017_all_English.pdf (page 39)

Exactly, however, if all nations agree such a rule can be overturned. But the Norwegians wouldn't do it, so it was not possible to change the program. Ónly to help their number one cheat Sundby. That's simply pathetic, but no suprise, of course.

Why would they agree to something which would disadvantage them? You are being ridiculous.
Heidi Weng has an absolute nightmare, no idea why she is in a huff with Oestberg, she was nowhere near her when she fell over.
 
Singer01 said:
Bavarianrider said:
search said:
Bavarianrider said:
So apparently there were plans to Held yesterday's sprint today and do today's mass start tomorrow.
But guess who was furious to block this idea? Exactly the Norwegians. They'll never change. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

the rules of the FIS wouldn't allow this anyway though:

There will be no postponement or substitution of FIS TOUR DE SKI competition in the case of a cancellation of an individual Stage except if there is no Stage scheduled for the following day. In this case, the Tour Board and Jury can decide to postpone a Stage by 24 hours.

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/Cross-Country/03/07/54/RulesWCCC_1718_oct2017_all_English.pdf (page 39)

Exactly, however, if all nations agree such a rule can be overturned. But the Norwegians wouldn't do it, so it was not possible to change the program. Ónly to help their number one cheat Sundby. That's simply pathetic, but no suprise, of course.

Why would they agree to something which would disadvantage them? You are being ridiculous.
Heidi Weng has an absolute nightmare, no idea why she is in a huff with Oestberg, she was nowhere near her when she fell over.

I know it's a weird concept for Norwegians, but there's something called fair play and it would have helped the organizers in Oberstdorf a lot. They lose a ton of Money because of Norways's selfishness.
Look at that horse *** of a race today, a sprint would have made so much more sense.
 
Bavarianrider said:
Singer01 said:
Bavarianrider said:
search said:
Bavarianrider said:
So apparently there were plans to Held yesterday's sprint today and do today's mass start tomorrow.
But guess who was furious to block this idea? Exactly the Norwegians. They'll never change. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

the rules of the FIS wouldn't allow this anyway though:

There will be no postponement or substitution of FIS TOUR DE SKI competition in the case of a cancellation of an individual Stage except if there is no Stage scheduled for the following day. In this case, the Tour Board and Jury can decide to postpone a Stage by 24 hours.

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/Cross-Country/03/07/54/RulesWCCC_1718_oct2017_all_English.pdf (page 39)

Exactly, however, if all nations agree such a rule can be overturned. But the Norwegians wouldn't do it, so it was not possible to change the program. Ónly to help their number one cheat Sundby. That's simply pathetic, but no suprise, of course.

Why would they agree to something which would disadvantage them? You are being ridiculous.
Heidi Weng has an absolute nightmare, no idea why she is in a huff with Oestberg, she was nowhere near her when she fell over.

I know it's a weird concept for Norwegians, but there's something called fair play and it would have helped the organizers in Oberstdorf a lot. They lose a ton of Money because of Norways's selfishness.
Look at that horse **** of a race today, a sprint would have made so much more sense.
I'm not Norwegian, which seems to be the implication, and the accusation is a bit absurd, no country would disadvantage themselves and their chances to win the TdS. To suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.
However i totally agree that todays race was utter dogshite.
 
What a joke of a 'race' today. Emil Iversen wining a distance skate race?? Pathetic. Why they wouldn't hold the classic sprint is beyond me. We can pretty much write in Cologna's name on the trophy. A sprint would have made it that much more tight. Bonus sprints on that type of course and conditions is just a waste.
 
quote="Bavarianrider"]
Singer01 said:
Bavarianrider said:
search said:
Bavarianrider said:
So apparently there were plans to Held yesterday's sprint today and do today's mass start tomorrow.
But guess who was furious to block this idea? Exactly the Norwegians. They'll never change. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

the rules of the FIS wouldn't allow this anyway though:

There will be no postponement or substitution of FIS TOUR DE SKI competition in the case of a cancellation of an individual Stage except if there is no Stage scheduled for the following day. In this case, the Tour Board and Jury can decide to postpone a Stage by 24 hours.

http://www.fis-ski.com/mm/Document/documentlibrary/Cross-Country/03/07/54/RulesWCCC_1718_oct2017_all_English.pdf (page 39)

Exactly, however, if all nations agree such a rule can be overturned. But the Norwegians wouldn't do it, so it was not possible to change the program. Ónly to help their number one cheat Sundby. That's simply pathetic, but no suprise, of course.

Why would they agree to something which would disadvantage them? You are being ridiculous.
Heidi Weng has an absolute nightmare, no idea why she is in a huff with Oestberg, she was nowhere near her when she fell over.

I know it's a weird concept for Norwegians, but there's something called fair play and it would have helped the organizers in Oberstdorf a lot. They lose a ton of Money because of Norways's selfishness.
Look at that horse **** of a race today, a sprint would have made so much more sense.[/quote]
I'm not Norwegian, which seems to be the implication, and the accusation is a bit absurd, no country would disadvantage themselves and their chances to win the TdS. To suggest otherwise is naive in the extreme.
However i totally agree that todays race was utter dogshite.[/quote]

No, given the concrete circumstances it's actually not absurd at all.
 

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