Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Again the women's biathlon far less predictable than the men's, pursuit set up very nicely.

Indeed. Congrats to Lisa Vittozzi for her first victory

Not prepared to congratulate loginov due to his past.

 

[Singer01]

Just caught up with the Nordic combined from yesterday. Riiber didn't win, wtf.
Also have their ever been Nordic triathlons? Jump, ski, shoot?

 

[python]

3 swedish girls on the podium is normal though i thought falla can wedge in...one rarely sees falla so helpless as she looked in the semis.

the guys: i missed why pelle was dq-ed. looked ok to me. the french stampede and the mutual elimination in the final probably prevented what would look like a repetition of the swedish girls example 5 mins earlier. a regrettable misfortune. retivych in 2nd is not luck. i recall his 2018 summer roller skiing finish against pelle where he cleanly out sprinted the italian while both where on the unobstructed parallel tracks.

 

[Singer01]

What's the over/under on Fourcade beating OEB wins record currently.

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re:

3 swedish girls on the podium is normal though i thought falla can wedge in...one rarely sees falla so helpless as she looked in the semis.

the guys: i missed why pelle was dq-ed. looked ok to me. the french stampede and the mutual elimination in the final probably prevented what would look like a repetition of the swedish girls example 5 mins earlier. a regrettable misfortune. retivych in 2nd is not luck. i recall his 2018 summer roller skiing finish against pelle where he cleanly out sprinted the italian while both where on the unobstructed parallel tracks.

I could not really be bothered to watch the sprints in Dresden in their full coverage, but I did actually catch a glimpse of the Pellegrino incident. His move initially cost Baptiste Gros a LL spot, and it was not okay. So good call to dsq him and show an example that bigger names are not above the rules of the sport.

 

[search]

any idea for how many years Dresden signed up to host that event? The number of (paying) spectators was very low, with 2000 over the whole weekend, apparently. And you may find some reasons why a flat sprint can be eventful as well, but especially the team sprint was a bit of a joke...

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

any idea for how many years Dresden signed up to host that event? The number of (paying) spectators was very low, with 2000 over the whole weekend, apparently. And you may find some reasons why a flat sprint can be eventful as well, but especially the team sprint was a bit of a joke...

They are signed up through the 2021/2022 season, if I am not mistaken. I too, noticed how low the turnout was. The main 'stands' were not filled and there were less people around the course, well, on the side of the course where the stands were than last year. I was there last year and it was a healthy number of people that came, for both days. I think the weather played a role as well. Last year it was crisp and sunny (a bit windy though). This year it was windy and rainy. I can see that putting some people off. I think that FIS needs to try and do a better job of advertising. The number of spectators for the ski jumping in Oberstdorf was 20k+, it was a far fewer for the TDS stages. Another reason is German performances. The German xc team has been rather mediocre for the past few seasons. After Sochi they hadn't gotten any medals at major championships, their best xc women's skier Herrmann switched to biathlon and their youngsters haven't produced as the coaches and sponsors thought they would. They were nowhere near the medals in Korea and the German govt and sponsors are big into the Olympics. The media nowadays shows xc in spurts. Sometimes they don't even show the races. Often times it's just short summaries of 10-15 minutes and that's it.

XC skiing is losing viewers, which is very sad. FIS had a lot of Polish viewers, but since Kowalczyk called it quits, they've completely turned off. When Smigun, Mae and Veerpalu were skiing, Estonians watched, now that the Estonians have been irrelevant, there's hardly viewership there. I am actually very interested to see how many people show up in Otepää this weekend. Two seasons ago the stands were largely empty and it was a far cry from 1999-2012. Many of those years the Estonians had the aforementioned skiers that were contending for podiums on home turf (and elsewhere, obviously). 2015 wasn't a bad turnout, but you could see less interest.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Yes, the XC distance turned into a Russia/Norway battle with Cologna/Harvey/Niskanen lurking on the men's side, in the sprint part it is even worse with only Pelegrino being the real threat to the two nations.

On the other hand Sweden is dominating the women's sprint, and is looking to be at least a threat to Johaug in the distance. While Russia holds a firm third spot. If we add US women to the equation we get only 8 nations that can get some medals.

In the past we had Poland (Justyna), Estonia (Šmigun and Veerpalu), Germany, Czechia (Bauer), Ukarine (Shevchenko), Slovenia (Majdič) and of course a strong French team.

Biathlon on the other hand is attracting massive crowds every weekend. Even though the sport is being dominated by 2 (now 3) guys. But it still has that unpredictability especially on the women's side. You can at least always hope that your favourite can have the best shooting of his life and get a podium or even a win. I can see guys like Rastorgujevs or Hofer getting a win on an odd day. I also expect to see Kaukenas on the podium at least once in the individual, unfortunately that format has taken a real damping by the IBU and we only see it twice or trice a year.

 

[kingjr]

For Rastorgujevs the boat may already have sailed. Hofer is a different story.

 

[Singer01]

Tennis and snooker mean no biathlon on uk eurosport. Ridiculous how much coverage the tennis gets.
Fourcade skiied about 40s slower than JTB today, that is a huge chunk in a sprint.

 

[search]

Re:

Fourcade skiied about 40s slower than JTB today, that is a huge chunk in a sprint.

32 seconds, if I'm not mistaken?! That would be more or less in line with his running times in the sprints so far, compared to Boe:

Ruhpolding +32,1s
Oberhof +20,3s
Nove Mesto +35,7s
Hochfilzen +30,2
Pokljuka +1:11,7

his shape this season just doesn't seem to be as good as it used to be.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Fourcade skiied about 40s slower than JTB today, that is a huge chunk in a sprint.

32 seconds, if I'm not mistaken?! That would be more or less in line with his running times in the sprints so far, compared to Boe:

Ruhpolding +32,1s
Oberhof +20,3s
Nove Mesto +35,7s
Hochfilzen +30,2
Pokljuka +1:11,7

his shape this season just doesn't seem to be as good as it used to be.

He lost 16 seconds and shot clean, JTB missed one shot which is normally about 24 seconds?

 

[Cance > TheRest]

@singer01 32 seconds is correct. Bø shot faster than Fourcade.

You can view statistics of the races on: https://biathlonresults.com/

Choose the race you want to investigate on the left side view, then click on the 'ANALYSIS' tab to the right of the side view and pick 'Load detailed analysis'. After you have done that, click on 'Add content' on the left side view, and you can now choose to view the Course times for each loop and in total.

There is also the Ukrainian site https://www.biathlon.com.ua/?&lang=eng, but it's less intuitive to use imo.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

For Rastorgujevs the boat may already have sailed. Hofer is a different story.

You never know though, Eberhard used to be a similarly wild "ski fast, shoot fast with eyes closed and hope" athlete who somehow managed to get it together enough to win a few races once he was about 30. Andi Birnbacher was also 30 when he got his first win, and managed to parlay that into a great run of form after Michi Greis retired that saw him become the de facto leader of the German men until Schempp was ready to take that role. Kühn is another who has the speed, so could get a surprise win if, like in the Individual at Pokljuka, he hits all the targets (still can't believe he did that). For the most part it's the same big few teams - Germany, Norway, France, Russia - among the men, but there's a few that could upset the apple cart, Hofer as you mentioned, Sebastian Samuelsson, I wonder about Sean Doherty if he stays injury-free for a couple of seasons too, he was great and really quick as a junior. The Czech men seem to have come out the other side of their golden period as Slesingr and Moravec get old, but Krcmár is good on his day.

For the women there are far fewer teams that are top-down strong as a unit meaning there are far more nationalities up at the front or at least with a chance to win, which increases the number of potential audience nations I guess. The top 2 in the World Cup are Italians, the Germans have a strong team, both with people who are proven champions (Dahlmeier), people who are popular and sympathetic (Preuß) and people who can win races or come 85th on any given day (Herrmann). France have a very strong - and young - team which again has people like Braisaz who could win or miss the pursuit. Norway's team now has a proper leader in Røiseland/Olsbu, given that Eckhoff is just way too inconsistent, and Sweden have a good young team too. Russia have finally found a way past their purgatory of journeywomen like Shumilova and Uslugina filling the team and are seeing some new faces establish themselves, and while the Czechs no longer have Koukalová at the head of the field, it doesn't look like it'll be too long before Davidová becomes the heroine for their team either. Belarus and Ukraine are in transition with their stars retiring or aging but they've got young people coming through, while Finland still has Kaisa and Slovakia has the pressure taken off Kuzmina by Fialková this season too. Hojnisz has finally found some consistency bringing the Poles back to some kind of prominence that they haven't had in six years, while the US, Austria and even Japan have some outsiders who can make a flower ceremony or two. Even those teams that DO have strength in depth either have no obvious leader (Russia, France) or a number of unpredictable or unreliable athletes (Germany, Norway) that means their success does not feel inevitable, and in the relays you see nations less deep in talent produce great performances as they isolate it as a good way to develop other athletes in high pressure environments.

It's easy to see why that holds more of an audience than XC where the Norwegian C team can usually beat the German, Czech, Canadian, Ukrainian A teams. The other thing is, the factor of the shooting. There are a lot of people mentioned up there - Herrmann, Doll, Kühn, Hofer, Mäkäräinen, Eckhoff, Eberhard - and plenty of others I didn't mention - not least Bø, Fourcade, Dahlmeier et al - who would be reasonable XC skiers (and indeed Herrmann WAS a reasonable XC skier). But quite a few biathletes are not the best XC skiers out there - they rely on excellent shooting drills (eg Eder, Wierer) or consistency in the range (eg Skardino, Semenov) to bring them results. The additional factor of the shooting means that the chance of getting results on a World Cup kind of level is open to more people than it ever would be in a pure XC skiing race because those that aren't among the best XC skiers can perform out of their skin in the range on a difficult shooting day and make podiums and flower ceremonies. The fastest biathletes can be at a very good level skiing-wise - look at the myriad performances by the likes of Lars Berger in the World Cup, or Miriam Gössner missing the podium in the 10k free at Val di Fiemme by half a second - but they also don't win that often because of their unreliable shooting. People like Irina Kryuko, Serhiy Semenov, Rosanna Crawford, Martin Ponsiluoma, Antonin Guigonnat, Monika Hojnisz - these can podium a World Cup event in biathlon which they would never have the chance to do in XC, notwithstanding the colossal funding gap between the best XC nations and the smaller teams. And that is a large reason why talent hæmorrhages from XC to biathlon in almost every non-major XC nation.

 

[kingjr]

Eberhard is a bit of late-bloomer, and when he got good he was able to go fast on all three laps. That's something Rastorgujevs struggles with. He doesn't have the strongest nerves either. Not sure if he can develop much further. I sure would like to see him win one day, though. I've been waiting for pretty much exactly 8 years now.

 

[Singer01]

What is Fourcade doing not taking the anchor leg? It looks from the outside like his bottle has gone, anyone got any other reasons why he wouldn't go last?

 

[search]

Re:

What is Fourcade doing not taking the anchor leg?

he said that the target was to get a gap on the other nations to give the final two runners a bit of a head start

https://www.lequipe.fr/Biathlon/Actualites/Martin-fourcade-il-y-a-peu-de-chances-que-je-fasse-les-trois-etapes-de-coupe-du-monde/978951

 

[python]

the ladies otepaa quals just over. few surprises...it looks to be another swedish podium in the final, with falla or nepryava wedging in. falla more likely, but a high 4th for a slow to crank up to speed russian is very good. all 6 swedish girls are in top 16 with 5 in top 8...if that is not a dominance, i don't know what is...

stina for a win with a 90% likelihood. the guys will start in few minutes. there is no mr. U, but bolshu is in, klaebo is in, pelle is in. i hate to say it, but it looks like another klaebo walk in the park.
---adding to the same post as it's still on the top

klaebo won the qual, but by a whisker. a somewhat unusual LACK of a huge margin. in less that .5 sec finished valnes and bolshu. this qual is unusual in a way that the organizers provided 2 intermediate checks on a 1.6 km loop....so, by my quick analysis bolshu was considerably faster that klaebo in one last kilometer. what does it mean ? he may choose to run the finals from the front tactic counting on his high concluding speed...pelle is only 13th... dont see him on the podium, since it's a classic style. the norwegians are again represented very strongly in the finals. i really can not find any surprise names in the top 30 except kilp marko..

and another considerable surprise is that there is not a single frenchman in the start list...the classic isn't their strong side, but they have some superb skiers that can spice up any comp.
------------and another important thing

the conditions are perfect for a heavier stronger skier - air 7C and snow 5C. hard packed.

 

[search]

is this live on TV anywhere? Every of the usual channels (I know) has the Wengen downhilll first and then Biathlon

 

[python]

Re:

is this live on TV anywhere? Every of the usual channels (I know) has the Wengen downhilll first and then Biathlon

i am watching swedish svt....certainly nrk is airing. a suggestion: if you dont have opera browser, download it and stream anything at will as it has a built-in VPN. unlimited.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

If you have a Eurosport digital subscription it's on one of the bonus channels. All the standard channels are on the tennis.

 

[kingjr]

Russians making fools of themselves today.

 

[search]

Re: Re:

is this live on TV anywhere? Every of the usual channels (I know) has the Wengen downhilll first and then Biathlon

i am watching swedish svt....certainly nrk is airing. a suggestion: if you dont have opera browser, download it and stream anything at will as it has a built-in VPN. unlimited.

If you have a Eurosport digital subscription it's on one of the bonus channels. All the standard channels are on the tennis.

thanks, found it on Swedish TV (I can watch it via VPN)

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I have no commentary because I'm on a bonus channel, why is Stina recording a DNS?

 

[python]

Re: Re:

is this live on TV anywhere? Every of the usual channels (I know) has the Wengen downhilll first and then Biathlon

i am watching swedish svt....certainly nrk is airing. a suggestion: if you dont have opera browser, download it and stream anything at will as it has a built-in VPN. unlimited.

If you have a Eurosport digital subscription it's on one of the bonus channels. All the standard channels are on the tennis.

thanks, found it on Swedish TV (I can watch it via VPN)

glad it worked. regarding the xc skiing and biathlons, svt airs ALL wc races. dont forget their archive function - program-sports-längdskidor: