Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Re: Re:

To be honest, his 9th place has a lot to do with the fact that he was Bib 51, while Niskanen was Bib 53. That's also the reason he was almost exactly one minute behind him.

About Hakola and Otepaa. He skied last around 3km together with Niskanen. Hakola was i.e. 10th in half way on his own.

more like ~5k I'd say, as he was 57 seconds behind on the 10k mark already

http://live.fis-ski.com/cc-4168/results-pda.htm

But indeed he was placed (just) inside the Top 10 before that already, so it was a very good race from him nonetheless.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

To be honest, his 9th place has a lot to do with the fact that he was Bib 51, while Niskanen was Bib 53. That's also the reason he was almost exactly one minute behind him.

About Hakola and Otepaa. He skied last around 3km together with Niskanen. Hakola was i.e. 10th in half way on his own.

more like ~5k I'd say, as he was 57 seconds behind on the 10k mark already

http://live.fis-ski.com/cc-4168/results-pda.htm

But indeed he was placed (just) inside the Top 10 before that already, so it was a very good race from him nonetheless.

Hakola came to finnish 2-3 sec before Niskanen with better sprint, but still lost >1min in time. There is 5 sec window in the start for the athlete, so Hakola has left "early". In 11,1km Hakola was sharp minute from Niskanen, so Niskanen hadn't caught him yet. In TV screens for 12,5km split they were together already, but Hakola was leading the duo although the split time was 1m03s behind Niskanen.

It was indeed very good from him and his condition seems going upwards based on finnish champs this weekend.

 

[wansteadimp]

Re: Re:

I fully expect Johaug to win 4 golds. 10km C, skiathlon, relay and 30km F mass start.

And with no Nilsson at least 1 of the 2 sprint races. Then Klaebo wins same 3 events he won at the Olympics and the men win at least 1 other event. Maybe 9 if things go really well/bad depending how you look at it.

Well, Norway won 9 in 2015 Falun. And 8 in 2011 Oslo. They have totally dominated the 2010's, more than in any previous decade. Certainly not good in my view. :razz: And it doesn't look like this overall trend is going to change. Russia in men and Sweden in women can offer a bit of a challenge in depth, but nothing like an overall turnaround.

However, to touch a related subject - what I find interesting is that this hasn't always been the case. If you count gold medals won in cross-country skiing in the olympics and world championships until 1990 - USSR, Sweden and Finland all won more than Norway. I'm not entirely sure, what changed after 1990. Of course, USSR collapsed, but this doesn't explain the other two Nordic countries. By the way, 1990+ coincides also with Norway emerging strongly in alpine skiing, while they were just a minor player there before.

One reason I can find is that oil was discovered in Norway in 1969. And until 1980's they were slightly lagging behind Sweden in living standards. But since then Norway has been top 3 country in the world in GDP per capita. So in terms of resources they are in a more advantageous position they used to be.

But it's a fascinating topic on which I would like to hear more explanations and views.

I'd imagine getting their act together (legally or in Clinic ways) for the home Olympics in 1994 was a large part of it (see Spain, Australia, GB etc etc).

Once they'd worked out how to get the performances it snowballed from there and the funding remained in place unlike other Olympic hosts.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/weather/alberta/canmore

Martin Fourcade must be happy not having to travel there.

 

[frenchfry]

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/ca/weather/alberta/canmore

Martin Fourcade must be happy not having to travel there.

That's what Albertans would call a pleasant winter day.

 

[search]

that's a bit chilly indeed though . Looks like apart from Fourcade and the Swedes basically everyone of note is going to compete in Canmore?!

 

[Kokoso]

[quote=" I suspect it was more because he was very tired (as was Ustiugov at the moment) after that brutal acceleration[/b], Ustiugov didn't have to slow down, right? He could could go at front, there was enough time before the top of the hill but Ustiugov simply didn't have it. Klaebo wasn't blocking Ustiugov, there was enough space. If Ustiugov had enough energy to get in front of the Klaebo but choosed to stay behind...I guess Ustiugov isn't that stupid, thus Ustiugov being tired scenario is the right one.

Did you watch the race? If you did, could you please tell me when exactly he went ahead of Ustiugov to do some of the work, before the final climb and into the stadium? They showed one instance where Ustiugov clearly motioned to Klaebo to go forward, but that must not have lasted very long because the next shot was Ustiugov being in front again.

To the bold, he purposefully went in front to prevent Ustiugov from launching an attack, then when Ustiugov got beside him, he sped up. He did a similar thing Northug did in 2011, when he impeded both Cologna and Hellner. In that stage Northug was penalized. It wasn't as blatant as Northug's, but the goal was the same. It has nothing to do with being tired. I suspect you've never done a cross country ski race in your life.

It is absolutely cowardly, but that's to be expected from the Trondersk.

Yep, I've watched the race, otherwise I couldn't write that comment of course. Strange question. I won't tell you exactly when Klaebo was at front, I didn't make a notes on exact times of course. Are you making notes who was at front at what time? I guess no, anaway you can't expect people making such notes. If you want, you can watch that race again and see yourself.

So it they, according to you, showed just one instance where Ustiugov showed Klaebo to go at the front, how comes you previously wrote Ustiugov asked him several times? That's contradictory.

Previously I wrote "Klaebo's pace was just too slow for Ustiugov so soon after Ustiugov took over in lead.", so I don't really understand what you are you trying to say by this "but that must not have lasted very long because the next shot was Ustiugov being in front again. "...?

Klaebo went at front to win a race. He launched attack at the foot of the hill, Ustiugov couldn't match him even despite Klaebo having longer trajectory, as a result Klaebo was at front. Why are so omitting this so obstinately? Later Ustiugov tried to accelerate, but he didn't have it. Of course Klaebo accelerated when Ustiugov accelerated, there is nothing wrong with that. Important is Ustiugov's acceleration was very, very short, it lasted like one second and ended with Ustiugov stumbling, after that Ustiugov returned behind Klaebo so that hints Ustuigov had no energy for longer acceleration, otherwise he sustained that acceleration for longer time, not just for second, don't you agree?

Unfair would be if Klaebo blocked Ustiugov, but that wasn't the case.

@Bullsfan No answers again? You are good at not answering when questions don't suit you.
I can kinda understand you don't want to answer when you've been caught lying. But that is not right way to behave. That requires some courage actually. You seem not to have it.

Looks like nobody shares your opinion on Klaebo yesterday. Only python, but he said overall and didn't comment specifically on that last hill.

I am not obligated to answer to you or anyone else. Plus I have a life outside of posting about xc ski racing on a cycling forum.

Caught lying? Lying about what? Twice (on camera) Ustiugov motioned for Klaebo to go to the front and do some work, once he did, for about 7 seconds, the other time no. So how am I lying? Did he not slow down when he went ahead of Ustiugov on the final climb? Yes he did. Did Ustiugov do virtually all the work? Yes. Did Klaebo wheelsuck virtually the whole way? Yes. What's the deal then?

Nobody? Who is nobody? On this forum or? And calling me a liar when I simply stated what I saw. You must be really feeling chipper.

Yes, you are not obligated to answer, I know that (why the heck you feel need to write such obvious thing...), but not asnswering incovenient questions basically gives answers anyway; because if the question is convenient for someone, he would answer. That is even worse than to be biased in my eyes.

Why did I say you lied? Because initially you wrote Usiugov asked him several times, bus later wrote Ustiugov aksed him one time. And initially you wrote Klaebo did no work, later you've admitted Klaebo did some work, although very little. Well, I am sorry if you didn't lie.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

that's a bit chilly indeed though . Looks like apart from Fourcade and the Swedes basically everyone of note is going to compete in Canmore?!

Yikes, poor Schempp and Fak, shows how far they've fallen down the totem pole.

 

[search]

hehe, yeah. For Schempp it's "too early" they said. He's scheduled to do the European Championships instead though.

 

[WKA311]

Well, that was probably the most dominating Biathlon performance I've ever seen.

 

[BullsFan22]

Kokoso, I can't reply to you with quotes, as there are 5 quotes, and it doesn't let me reply to your comment, so I'll just make a separate post:

https://www.fis-ski.com/DB/general/results.html?sectorcode=CC&raceid=32007

Check out the date when this race took place.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Re:

Well, that was probably the most dominating Biathlon performance I've ever seen.

Yes, it's been absurd. It think OEB once won a 20k individual in Antholz mid 2000s with over 2:30 minutes. That day he put like over 5 minutes into the top ten. It was like Robo Basso in Giro 2006.

If Boe performs like this in Östersund, he will sweep the competition with ease. OEB in Salt Lake City 2002 was quite the same. He dominated every race.

Also the course times of the Norges are out of this world.
1 Boe, 2 Christiansen +31s, 3 Loginov +1:05
Roeiseland and Eckhoff also very strong. Only Denise Herrmann could match them. She will be a contender for a sprint, if the shooting works.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Well, that was probably the most dominating Biathlon performance I've ever seen.

Yes, it's been absurd. It think OEB once won a 20k individual in Antholz mid 2000s with over 2:30 minutes. That day he put like over 5 minutes into the top ten. It was like Robo Basso in Giro 2006.

If Boe performs like this in Östersund, he will sweep the competition with ease. OEB in Salt Lake City 2002 was quite the same. He dominated every race.

Also the course times of the Norges are out of this world.
1 Boe, 2 Christiansen +31s, 3 Loginov +1:05
Roeiseland and Eckhoff also very strong. Only Denise Herrmann could match them. She will be a contender for a sprint, if the shooting works.

Do we think he will also do the single mixed relay? First champs with 7 events. Could he beat LD's record?

 

[zarnack]

Davidova is the "find" of the season. So the void left by Koukalova has been filled for Czechs.

Overall battle between Wierer and Vittozzi is hotting up. All about, who can be more consistent for the rest of the season.

 

[zarnack]

Re: Re:

Roeiseland and Eckhoff also very strong. Only Denise Herrmann could match them. She will be a contender for a sprint, if the shooting works.

Biathlon is quite a topsy-turvy sport anyway, but Eckhoff really takes the cake in terms of inconsistency. She can hit gold for about twice a season and win, and for the rest of the time she can be pretty much nowhere. Now she has won once this year. Will the other victory happen at the Champs?

 

[search]

Re:

Overall battle between Wierer and Vittozzi is hotting up. All about, who can be more consistent for the rest of the season.

with the amounts of sprints to come, Oslbu may still be in the mix as well.

Actually she is currently also ~25 points closer to Wierer than what it looks like in the standings.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Roeiseland and Eckhoff also very strong. Only Denise Herrmann could match them. She will be a contender for a sprint, if the shooting works.

Biathlon is quite a topsy-turvy sport anyway, but Eckhoff really takes the cake in terms of inconsistency. She can hit gold for about twice a season and win, and for the rest of the time she can be pretty much nowhere. Now she has won once this year. Will the other victory happen at the Champs?

By the end of her career Eckhoff will probably be one of the top 15-20 biathletes in terms of wins. But way down the list of overall points.

 

[zarnack]

So the biathlon sprints have been cancelled.

What I would say is that can't they have World Cup races in Canada in late March like they had in cross-country a few years ago? Or in the beginning of the season? Also whenever competitions have been held in Russian Siberia, it's been in March. If you have races in areas with deep continental climate, you are asking for trouble if you schedule them into the period of deepest winter...


In XC I would say that probably Kläbo is the one, who will finally beat Dählie record of World Cup victories (46). The amount of sprints is significant on the calendar nowadays and he just keeps winning every one of them.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

So the biathlon sprints have been cancelled.

What I would say is that can't they have World Cup races in Canada in late March like they had in cross-country a few years ago? Or in the beginning of the season? Also whenever competitions have been held in Russian Siberia, it's been in March. If you have races in areas with deep continental climate, you are asking for trouble if you schedule them into the period of deepest winter...


In XC I would say that probably Kläbo is the one, who will finally beat Dählie record of World Cup victories (46). The amount of sprints is significant on the calendar nowadays and he just keeps winning every one of them.

The weather can be very unpredictable in the mountains, particularly the Rocky Mountains. Last time the biathlon world cups were held in Canmore was exactly three years ago, and the weather was quite normal, not really cold, with good snow coverage. Yes, Canmore can be very cold and the mountains surrounding the town and the Nordic Centre are such that the Sun doesn't bathe the tracks too often, and sometimes when it does, it doesn't do so for that long.

In March 2016, the Tour of Canada WC xc finals were held there, and the weather was unseasonably warm and the snow conditions were incredibly slushy, whereas in Quebec City and Montreal, it was cold and windy. You just never know. If they held the WC in Canada the same time they do the last WC races, something like the 15-25 (in that range), there is no guarantee that they'll have reliable snow, yes, even in Canmore. Sometimes it's great skiing, sometimes it's very spring-like, sometimes there's little to no snow on the trails. I do get the concern and had the races been held in March with warmer temps, there would have been more spectators (which would have been really nice for everyone, it was eerie how quiet it was for the shooting), but they have to appease to everyone, and this is a period of the season where there is a bit of a lull in terms of interest.


As far as Klaebo is concerned, yeah, he'll win more sprint races and will move up the rankings. What I find most disturbing is the lack of classic races on the circuit. 9 of the 12 sprint races are all in skate. I've posted a lot on this topic, but FIS seems to be trying to kill off the sport with the skate sprints. At least have 60-40, not 75-25 or 80-20 favoring the skate technique. It's sad. The low spectator turnout is also worrisome. I know it was the world championships, but in 2017 there were was a nice turnout in every race in Lahti. Even in the non World's years the turnout was better. FIS has to look at themselves very closely this spring and do something about these issues.

 

[Singer01]

Fourcade must be pleased. 2 fewer races for JTB to set record for most victories in a season.

 

[Kokoso]

Kokoso, I can't reply to you with quotes, as there are 5 quotes, and it doesn't let me reply to your comment, so I'll just make a separate post:

https://www.fis-ski.com/DB/general/results.html?sectorcode=CC&raceid=32007

Check out the date when this race took place.

If only you'd be concerned with matter instead of useless date Or maybe you don't know calendar thus I'm treating you unjustly? For me knowledge of calendar is matter of course so I'd never react as you've recated. Instead I'd reacted to the point.

 

[BullsFan22]

Kokoso, I can't reply to you with quotes, as there are 5 quotes, and it doesn't let me reply to your comment, so I'll just make a separate post:

https://www.fis-ski.com/DB/general/results.html?sectorcode=CC&raceid=32007

Check out the date when this race took place.

If only you'd be concerned with matter instead of useless date Or maybe you don't know calendar thus I'm treating you unjustly? For me knowledge of calendar is matter of course so I'd never react as you've recated. Instead I'd reacted to the point.

The point is, nobody cares about this race anymore but you. It happened over a month ago. You can accept that Klaebo was a wheelsucker and a coward in that race or you cannot. It's quite simple.

 

[Singer01]

Roiseland wins again. She isn't out of the overall and her form is definitely where it need a to be for the WC.

 

[zarnack]

What I have noticed is that Herrmann has been slowly getting better and better as the season has moved on. A big result for her somewhere could potentially happen, a bit like it happened to Eckhoff last week.

 

[Singer01]

JTB just missed 4 of his standing shots when even 2 misses would have given him the win. The shooting overall has been dreadful.
Edit, and still finished 4th. I know some of the big names were missing but still.