Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BullsFan22]

Re:

I get that there can be debate about the move that Klæbo made. It's a grey zone case where people will disagree because of their bias'es. To me it did not look deliberate from Klæbo. He did not make a sudden swerve to his right, but just tried to take the shortest route to the turn. After they made contact the first time, I guess both were in their right to make sure they did not fall, so none of the things that transpired right after Klæbo's ski first crossed into Ustiugov's the first time should be punishable. I would not call it deliberate unsportsmanlike behavior from Klæbo's side, but then again, I am also not determined to see it that way.

Ultimately, while I do think Klæbo's behavior/maneuver can be legitimately excused as a race incident, the same cannot be said of what Ustiugov decided to do afterwards.

Really? Remember the Northug and Di Centa incident at the 2008 tour de ski when Northug shoved Di Centa? How about in Dusseldorf 2010 when Eigenmann literally headbutted Bryntesson after their heat? Or in the Tour of Canada in 2016 when Andrew Young shoved Erik Bjornsen (as they were both moving past the finish line)?

I don't condone physical contact, especially after the race, but it's happened many times before at this level. Klaebo raced dirty, he's done it in the past. He also knows how to get under the skin of certain people, people like Ustiugov that don't always appreciate dbags.

And there was far less uproar when Toenseth used his pole to whack Haga at the Norwegian nationals a few weeks ago. Also, speaking of Klaebo, anytime he gets beat or falls or breaks a pole, he always pouts and throws a tantrum like a 5 year old at K-Mart. How come he is never criticized or even penalized for that?

There will always be double standards, in every sport. There are certain athletes, like Klaebo, for example, that get preferential treatment and are pampered on a consistent basis. Had Ustiugov done what Klaebo did today, he would have been given a yellow card, at the absolute least. More likely, he would have been DQ'd, especially if Klaebo missed the final.

 

[Singer01]

The level of butthurt on here is unbelievable. Racing incidents happen, sometimes they are accidents, sometimes deliberate, but its hard to know for sure. Attacking someone isn't a grey area.

 

[Kokoso]

Re: Re:

Klaebo's move, to me, looked like a blatant obstruction. He got sloppy and left a small gap to his right, Ustyugov had every right to push into that gap. When Klaebo saw him coming he just trampled on Russian's skis with own right ski and rescued his position with it. If I've understood the rules correctly then Klaebo had the right to choose his lane as he was ahead of Ustyugov at the time of the incident, and thus avoided any punishment. But it was definitely intentional obstruction and as such cynical and unsportsmanlike behaviour, even if technically within the rules.

..and anyone in that race, including Ustyogov, would have done the same thing in Klæbo's position.

Nonsense.

 

[Kokoso]

Watched a slow mo of the Ustiugov Klaebo incident. I don't blame Ustiugov for reacting the way he did. Klaebo the coward is DEFINITELY not without blame, but we know that FIS doesn't have cojones to give wonderboy, or indeed any top Norwegian a yellow or a straight DQ for any infringement or unsportsmanlike maneuvers. I would have been pissed as well. And Skar, what was his problem with Ustiugov? Sticking up for wonderboy?

Um, isn't that the normal reaction for a teammate?

This is not a war, this is a mere sport.

Maybe for someone beginning his answer with "um" it is normal.

 

[KZD]

To me Klaebo didn't do anything illegal although he should have been more careful during the race. Anyway, congratulations to him, Pellegrino and Retvykh. Ustyugov shouldn't have reacted the way he did although I understand his frustration. I still think he will end up this Worlds with 4 medals starting with a gold medal next Saturday in the skiatlon.

On the ladies side, a shame what happen to the Swedes, one of them could have got a gold medal.

 

[Singer01]

Watched a slow mo of the Ustiugov Klaebo incident. I don't blame Ustiugov for reacting the way he did. Klaebo the coward is DEFINITELY not without blame, but we know that FIS doesn't have cojones to give wonderboy, or indeed any top Norwegian a yellow or a straight DQ for any infringement or unsportsmanlike maneuvers. I would have been pissed as well. And Skar, what was his problem with Ustiugov? Sticking up for wonderboy?

Um, isn't that the normal reaction for a teammate?

This is not a war, this is a mere sport.
.

You do realise that your point criticises Ustiugov and defends Klaebo?

Post edited by King Boonen: Post not poster please.

 

[zarnack]

Maybe Kläbo could have been handed a yellow, but the thing is - it's skate sprinting. And you have to be "wide" there to go forward. Personally I'm surprised they don't crash more often. Athletes going 3- or 4-wide in skate sprint just doesn't fit in, someone has to suffer. Also I don't think Kläbo deliberately hindered Ustiugov, because it's a big risk. Remember, they both almost fell over after the contact. However, he also didn't take into account whether someone was near him to hinder skating. So kind of an accidental misjudgement.

 

[Singer01]

I hope Klaebo and Ustiugov take over together for the last leg of the relay, that would be nice and tense.

 

[Kokoso]

Watched a slow mo of the Ustiugov Klaebo incident. I don't blame Ustiugov for reacting the way he did. Klaebo the coward is DEFINITELY not without blame, but we know that FIS doesn't have cojones to give wonderboy, or indeed any top Norwegian a yellow or a straight DQ for any infringement or unsportsmanlike maneuvers. I would have been pissed as well. And Skar, what was his problem with Ustiugov? Sticking up for wonderboy?

Um, isn't that the normal reaction for a teammate?

This is not a war, this is a mere sport.
.

You do realise that your point criticises Ustiugov and defends Klaebo?

Firstly, my point certainly does not defend Klaebo, my point is not about Klaebo at all. It is about Skar and Ustygov At least read the context before using strong words. Secondly, no, my point doesn't ciriticise Ustiugov; it is a mere sport, so there is no need to show such unsportmanship as Klaebo did, his maneuvre was absolutely unnecessary and Ustyugov was rightly upset. Ustyugov only reacted to Klaebo's action; Klaebo was the offender here. And, lastly, it was between Klaebo and Ustiugov, not Skar.

 

[Singer01]

Watched a slow mo of the Ustiugov Klaebo incident. I don't blame Ustiugov for reacting the way he did. Klaebo the coward is DEFINITELY not without blame, but we know that FIS doesn't have cojones to give wonderboy, or indeed any top Norwegian a yellow or a straight DQ for any infringement or unsportsmanlike maneuvers. I would have been pissed as well. And Skar, what was his problem with Ustiugov? Sticking up for wonderboy?

Um, isn't that the normal reaction for a teammate?

This is not a war, this is a mere sport.
.

You do realise that your point criticises Ustiugov and defends Klaebo? You big dummy.

Dummy? I did not expect it will bother you (someone) so much.

Firstly, my point certainly does not defend Klaebo, my point is not about Klaebo at all. It is about Skar and Ustygov At least read the context before using strong words. Secondly, no, my point doesn't ciriticise Ustiugov; it is a mere sport, so there is no need to show such unsportmanship as Klaebo did, his maneuvre was absolutely unnecessary and Ustyugov was rightly upset. Ustyugov only reacted to Klaebo's action; Klaebo was the offender here. And, lastly, it was between Klaebo and Ustiugov, not Skar.

'this is not a war, it is a mere sport'. Hence sporting actions are acceptable, violent ones are not. We won't know whether Klaebo's actions were deliberate or not, but Ustiugovs clearly were and most people accept they have no place in the sport. To blame Klaebo and exhonerate Ustiugov is homerism at its worst.

I know there is a lot of anti norwegian sentiment on this board (which i get, they are going to win about 12 Golds at these championships), but to suggest cutting someone up is as bad as assaulting someone is just stupid.

Criticising Skar is absurd, if Ustiugov is allowed to assault Klaebo for cutting him up, Skar is allowed to defend his team mate from said assault.

 

[zarnack]

Re:

I hope Klaebo and Ustiugov take over together for the last leg of the relay, that would be nice and tense.

Yeah that would be interesting. But one would hope Ustiugov will have learnt strategically.

There was a saying about Northug - you can't beat him at the finish, you have to kill him with tempo. The same applies to Kläbo. Ustiugov would have to ski hard for the whole 10 km in the relay, not watch around like he did in the sprint.

 

[zarnack]

In Nordic combined it looks like Frenzel and a quick skier Riessle are in good positions after jumping. Riiber has a lot of work to do.

However, one has to say that international competition in nordic combined is also very sparse. All about Germany, Norway, Austria... In World Cup top 20 overall there are only 2 competitors from other countries - a Japanese (2nd) and a Finn (13th)...

 

[zarnack]

Swedish media writes that Ebba Andersson misses skiathlon due to illness. It's all going wrong for Sweden, isn't it? This in a situation, where they have their best ever female XC ski team of all times.

 

[kingjr]

Watched a slow mo of the Ustiugov Klaebo incident. I don't blame Ustiugov for reacting the way he did. Klaebo the coward is DEFINITELY not without blame, but we know that FIS doesn't have cojones to give wonderboy, or indeed any top Norwegian a yellow or a straight DQ for any infringement or unsportsmanlike maneuvers. I would have been pissed as well. And Skar, what was his problem with Ustiugov? Sticking up for wonderboy?

Um, isn't that the normal reaction for a teammate?

This is not a war, this is a mere sport.

Maybe for someone beginning his answer with "um" it is normal.

What does that even mean?

Just to clarify, what are we talking about with regards to Skar here. That moment when he interfered when Ustiugov and Klaebo were having their little altercation after the finish, right? Or was there something else, that I've missed.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

In Nordic combined it looks like Frenzel and a quick skier Riessle are in good positions after jumping. Riiber has a lot of work to do.

However, one has to say that international competition in nordic combined is also very sparse. All about Germany, Norway, Austria... In World Cup top 20 overall there are only 2 competitors from other countries - a Japanese (2nd) and a Finn (13th)...

Would like to see Rehrl or Seidl win from that front group as Austria have become a bit more marginal in the sport in recent years, never really recovered from the retirement of Felix Gottwald, and with France also having slipped away to peripheral status with JLC gone, the more different teams we see winning at the big stage the better for the sport. I love NoCo more in theory than in execution in recent years, it used to be a lot more open when the French had a lot more funding support, Pittin hadn't had his bad injuries that have affected his jumping (nowadays he's a great skier but he just hasn't got the confidence in the jump), Bill Demong meant that the USA were halfway competitive (we know Taylor Fletcher can ski with the best, but his jumping is so woeful that he's essentially an irrelevance much of the season and while the same applies to a few like, say, Gråbak or Magnus Moan, they are at least on strong teams so it doesn't matter so much if they have some bad races) I think that we're likely to see the front four come together. The interesting thing will be if Riiber can go hard at the start to catch the duo of Watabe and Rießle who are starting together. Rießle's a very strong skier but I can't see Akito being easy to drop, and if Akito won't collaborate because he knows how strong a skier Rießle is, if Rießle half-asses it then Riiber could make the junction fairly early on.

However, Seefeld is also Frenzel's favourite venue. He won back to back races here in 2013, then when they introduced the Seefeld Triple the following year, he won every single race at the venue in 2014, 2015 and 2016 (so he was undefeated in 11 races at Seefeld over a four year period), then won 1 in 2017 too. If anybody knows how to win here it's Eric.


...so that's now 13 race wins for Eric in Seefeld.

 

[Gigs_98]

Kinda fitting that Frenzel wins wc gold in Seefeld considering his record there. I'm mainly happy Schmid didn't win after doing his best Simon Gerrans impression for three and a half laps and ofc that Austria got their first medal. If Austria hadn't won any nordic combined medals there would have been a good chance for a WC without medals which would have been a catastrophe for a home event. A lot less pressure on the whole team now

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Kinda fitting that Frenzel wins wc gold in Seefeld considering his record there. I'm mainly happy Schmid didn't win after doing his best Simon Gerrans impression for three and a half laps and ofc that Austria got their first medal. If Austria hadn't won any nordic combined medals there would have been a good chance for a WC without medals which would have been a catastrophe for a home event. A lot less pressure on the whole team now

Jan Schmid has been sick, to be fair. He did a bit of pacing on the first lap but then sat on after that.

 

[DenisMenchov]

No Manificat tomorrow as well. Do you guys think Russia and Norway wasted spots with Bolshu and Klaebo instead of saving them for Sunday?

 

[zarnack]

Re:

No Manificat tomorrow as well. Do you guys think Russia and Norway wasted spots with Bolshu and Klaebo instead of saving them for Sunday?

Good question. Thorn, Halfvarsson, Nilsson, Belorukova are all missing and obviously kept fresh for team sprint. Slightly surprising that Diggins is missing. Ill, or also for the team sprint? And also no Austria's only hope Stadlober.

Wouldn't be shocked if Russia puts Retivykh for one team sprint leg and then decides between Ustiugov and Bolshunov, which one looks more fresh after skiathlon?

Regarding Norway. Like Kläbo, Iversen also does the skiathlon. Would Norway really team both up for the team sprint or replace Iversen with a fresher guy?

 

[KZD]

Re: Re:

No Manificat tomorrow as well. Do you guys think Russia and Norway wasted spots with Bolshu and Klaebo instead of saving them for Sunday?

Good question. Thorn, Halfvarsson, Nilsson, Belorukova are all missing and obviously kept fresh for team sprint. Slightly surprising that Diggins is missing. Ill, or also for the team sprint? And also no Austria's only hope Stadlober.

Wouldn't be shocked if Russia puts Retivykh for one team sprint leg and then decides between Ustiugov and Bolshunov, which one looks more fresh after skiathlon?

Regarding Norway. Like Kläbo, Iversen also does the skiathlon. Would Norway really team both up for the team sprint or replace Iversen with a fresher guy?

It would make sense for Bolshunov to do the team sprint because he is a beast in classic and if used in the odd tracks he can drop everyone, but tomorrow he may well get a medal. I still think that they will go with Ustiugov for the team sprint as well because Ustiugov is hungrier that ever after missing the Olympics last year and the incident in the sprint yesterday. I guess he will stand aside of the individual race and Bolshunov of the mass-start.

As for Norway they should go with Iversen-Klaebo as well, Iversen spent all the year preparing for these Championships and Klaebo would never drop a sprint event in the World Championships even if its a team sprint.

A surprise to see Halfvarsson stand aside of the skiathlon considering that he is Sweden's best chance in the event and that Thorn will rest anyway. Regarding Mannificat, is he sick?

Despite strong Finnish, Italian and Swedish teams, I still think Norway and Russia will get the first two places (in normal circumstances).

 

[KZD]

Re: Re:

No Manificat tomorrow as well. Do you guys think Russia and Norway wasted spots with Bolshu and Klaebo instead of saving them for Sunday?

Good question. Thorn, Halfvarsson, Nilsson, Belorukova are all missing and obviously kept fresh for team sprint. Slightly surprising that Diggins is missing. Ill, or also for the team sprint? And also no Austria's only hope Stadlober.

Wouldn't be shocked if Russia puts Retivykh for one team sprint leg and then decides between Ustiugov and Bolshunov, which one looks more fresh after skiathlon?

Regarding Norway. Like Kläbo, Iversen also does the skiathlon. Would Norway really team both up for the team sprint or replace Iversen with a fresher guy?

Bolshunov is too much of an asset to miss a classic team sprint, I would say, he will probably just miss the mass-start like Klaebo. Ustiugov is hungrier than ever so I guess he will race the team sprint as well, he will probably just miss the individual race. Iversen also spent the season preparing for these Championships so I don't think he will miss the team sprint either, although he doesn't seem to recover as well as the others. Despite a strong and fresher Finnish, Italian and Swedish teams, I still think Norway and Russia will get the first two places in the event.
Prediction for today
-Ustiugov
-Iversen
-Bolshunov

 

[Discgear]

Anyone truly enjoying Johaug detronizing the field?

 

[KZD]

Frida Karlsson doing a great race. Expected a bit more from Sedova

 

[zarnack]

This race got boring within the first 5 minutes. I think we have to wait till the next championships, or the championships after that to get some excitement again.

Only thing I would mention about this race is the incredible performance of Frida Karlsson. And by the looks of it she has a very good skiing technique too.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

This race got boring within the first 5 minutes. I think we have to wait till the next championships, or the championships after that to get some excitement again.

Only thing I would mention about this race is the incredible performance of Frida Karlsson. And by the looks of it she has a very good skiing technique too.

The problem was that the only fight was for the minor medals, and I think anybody who has been following women's XC for a while could tell how this would go: Kalla would pull the second chase group once they got into skate, since she's one of the best in terms of skate technique, but with two Norwegians in the main chase group there was little chance they'd make it across - Østberg is generally the strongest of that chasing 3 and also the best sprinter, so her taking silver seemed very likely, while Jacobsen is both a pretty unlucky athlete and a weaker sprinter nowadays than Nepryaeva so her finishing 4th seemed inevitable as soon as they couldn't get rid of Nepryaeva on the first skate lap. Karlsson as a wildcard gave us the only real suspense as we didn't know what she could do in a field of this level.