Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[bambino]

Re: Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

You should really try to keep your bias bit more down. There are multiple tactical choices one can make in such race. Bolshunov made tactical choice to pull hard as he knew he would've not competed medals would 20 guys be in last sprint to finish. Norwegians welcomed that tactic with 2 of their strongest guys able to follow, on the other hand i.e. Roethe would've been in medals even with more guys at the end.

So Bolshunov played the tactic that brought him medal, and Roethe a tactic that brought him gold. There is no covardism on that anywhere else than in your Norwegian biased head, it is just race tactics.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

You should really try to keep your bias bit more down. There are multiple tactical choices one can make in such race. Bolshunov made tactical choice to pull hard as he knew he would've not competed medals would 20 guys be in last sprint to finish. Norwegians welcomed that tactic with 2 of their strongest guys able to follow, on the other hand i.e. Roethe would've been in medals even with more guys at the end.

So Bolshunov played the tactic that brought him medal, and Roethe a tactic that brought him gold. There is no covardism on that anywhere else than in your Norwegian biased head, it is just race tactics.

You have the right to have an opinion. I simply wrote what I saw and what I read in the post race interviews.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

You should really try to keep your bias bit more down. There are multiple tactical choices one can make in such race. Bolshunov made tactical choice to pull hard as he knew he would've not competed medals would 20 guys be in last sprint to finish. Norwegians welcomed that tactic with 2 of their strongest guys able to follow, on the other hand i.e. Roethe would've been in medals even with more guys at the end.

So Bolshunov played the tactic that brought him medal, and Roethe a tactic that brought him gold. There is no covardism on that anywhere else than in your Norwegian biased head, it is just race tactics.

So Bolshunov is a better finisher than Roethe yet Roethe would have had a better chance than him even if the group was bigger. Ok.

 

[bambino]

Re: Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

You should really try to keep your bias bit more down. There are multiple tactical choices one can make in such race. Bolshunov made tactical choice to pull hard as he knew he would've not competed medals would 20 guys be in last sprint to finish. Norwegians welcomed that tactic with 2 of their strongest guys able to follow, on the other hand i.e. Roethe would've been in medals even with more guys at the end.

So Bolshunov played the tactic that brought him medal, and Roethe a tactic that brought him gold. There is no covardism on that anywhere else than in your Norwegian biased head, it is just race tactics.

So Bolshunov is a better finisher than Roethe yet Roethe would have had a better chance than him even if the group was bigger. Ok.

Bolshunov is better sprinter. Finishing after 30km is different than finishing after 2,5km. I don't remember Bolshu being superior finisher after long distance. He had troubles i.e. in Tour de Ski. Roethe has always been desent finisher after long distance.

Let's say it differently... Bolshunov's only chance to podium was to drill hard. There was only 4 others who could follow. And one of them could win on sprint. Simple as that.

And some coach years ago said... There is no point to go to front and waste energy... because there will always be one Russian too anxious who will do that for you anyway

 

[BullsFan22]

Re: Re:

No one forced Bolshunov to set the pace all the way.

He set the pace because the Norwegians were skiing like cowards. Had Bolshunov not worked, there was a chance that the skiers behind would have latched back on. So Bolshunov helped tow the Norwegians to the medals, then they just sprinted the last couple hundred meters, and still Bolshunov almost won. If there is any justice, he'll get his gold before the end of the championship.

You should really try to keep your bias bit more down. There are multiple tactical choices one can make in such race. Bolshunov made tactical choice to pull hard as he knew he would've not competed medals would 20 guys be in last sprint to finish. Norwegians welcomed that tactic with 2 of their strongest guys able to follow, on the other hand i.e. Roethe would've been in medals even with more guys at the end.

So Bolshunov played the tactic that brought him medal, and Roethe a tactic that brought him gold. There is no covardism on that anywhere else than in your Norwegian biased head, it is just race tactics.

So Bolshunov is a better finisher than Roethe yet Roethe would have had a better chance than him even if the group was bigger. Ok.

Bolshunov is better sprinter. Finishing after 30km is different than finishing after 2,5km. I don't remember Bolshu being superior finisher after long distance. He had troubles i.e. in Tour de Ski. Roethe has always been desent finisher after long distance.

Let's say it differently... Bolshunov's only chance to podium was to drill hard. There was only 4 others who could follow. And one of them could win on sprint. Simple as that.

And some coach years ago said... There is no point to go to front and waste energy... because there will always be one Russian too anxious who will do that for you anyway

Remember the race in Falun last year? Or the Ruka triple last year? Plenty of head to head raced where he’s fared quite well, and he was closing down on Roethe rather than Roethe pulling away from him, and this is after Roethe was drafting for 99% of the race.

And about the coach (Behle), it was already said here a yesterday.

 

[bambino]

It does not make Roethe worse skier by any official measurement. Just better tactician. Deal with it.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

It does not make Roethe worse skier by any official measurement. Just better tactician. Deal with it.

No but it doesn’t make him a better skier either, just a coward and a wheel sucker.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Surprise surprise, the crappy format produces a crappy race. At least we got a surprise medallist.

Edit: men's race even worse. Commentators going on about how it's going to end in a big bunch finale and that's what we want, apparently. In that case, just scrap the rest of the race and hold a 100m drag race, then we know who the best finisher is, since that's apparently all it takes to produce an exciting race. I know the Team Sprint has its adherents and defenders, but this Seefeld course really doesn't help accentuate the positives of the format.

Edit 2: now they're holding trackstands. Jesus Christ. How can anybody think that what we saw there is good for the sport?

Edit 3: thank God, Allah, Buddha, all 9 million deities of Shinto that ES International cuts to post-race analysis with Devon Kershaw, I don't think I could take any more of Winterton's BS about the greatness of any race that has a close finish regardless of the rest of it and his doe-eyed adoration of Klæbo because he reminds him of his beloved Northug. Kershaw has plenty positive to say about Johannes too, but he actually provides some analysis of why the guy is so good. LOL the coaches are all criticising Bolshunov for leading down the final hill, but everybody knew they didn't want to lead down that hill, that's why they came to a complete standstill! If everybody just stopped and stood still arguing over who took the lead, you may as well not bother holding the first five and a half laps. Complete joke of a race.

 

[Singer01]

They need to change the format for the team sprint. Maybe a TT qualification and the the final is a pursuit? At least that would change it up.

 

[KZD]

Re:

They need to change the format for the team sprint. Maybe a TT qualification and the the final is a pursuit? At least that would change it up.

I heard FIS was thinking about introducing a mixed team sprint.
Your idea seems to be more interesting but I doubt they will put forward anything similar.
Good surprise the Slovenian ladies silver and in the men's the expected result will Klaebo dropping everyone remaining, in the last climb.

 

[zarnack]

Slovenia produced a pleasant surprise. They were really neck-and-neck with Sweden and Norway, and Russia was thereabouts too. So all about, who had the best final kick. Meanwhile looks like United States will have trouble getting a medal in these championships now. Their women have won something pretty regularly recently.

Men? Yeah, who can beat Kläbo the way he just runs up the last hill? So far Bolshunov has turned into "forever second", but his big chance to change that fate will come in 15 km.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Who have came up with the idea of having the Team sprint the day after the skiathlon really deserves a medal

 

[BullsFan22]

Who have came up with the idea of having the Team sprint the day after the skiathlon really deserves a medal

I may be wrong, but I think it was 2013 when they started doing this. It's interesting how it's not the same schedule as in the olympics, though I get it, the events are more spread out at the Olympics then they are at the world's.

 

[BullsFan22]

Re:

Slovenia produced a pleasant surprise. They were really neck-and-neck with Sweden and Norway, and Russia was thereabouts too. So all about, who had the best final kick. Meanwhile looks like United States will have trouble getting a medal in these championships now. Their women have won something pretty regularly recently.

Men? Yeah, who can beat Kläbo the way he just runs up the last hill? So far Bolshunov has turned into "forever second", but his big chance to change that fate will come in 15 km.

It depends on how the conditions are. If it's going to be as warm as the forecast says, then he'll find it tough. If his skis are as they were today, then he'll find it difficult. There are number of strong candidates. Bolshunov, Niskanen, Poltoranin, Bessmertnykh, Larkov, Sundby, Toenseth (didn't look that good in Cogne though), Iversen (I heard me may be skipping that one.), Halfvarsson(??), maybe Belov, somebody else?

The women's race will be Johaug, unless she doesn't start. After that could be as open as the men. Nepryaeva has looked really strong the last couple races and has had very consistent season so far, particularly in these 10km races. Oestberg, Jacobsen, Weng (?), Parmakoski, Niskanen, Sedova, Belorukova (hasn't been at her best in Seefeld, but she's capable of surprising), Kalla, Andersson (if she is healthy), Karlsson (???), etc.

 

[kosmonaut]

Re:

Surprise surprise, the crappy format produces a crappy race. At least we got a surprise medallist.

Edit: men's race even worse. Commentators going on about how it's going to end in a big bunch finale and that's what we want, apparently. In that case, just scrap the rest of the race and hold a 100m drag race, then we know who the best finisher is, since that's apparently all it takes to produce an exciting race. I know the Team Sprint has its adherents and defenders, but this Seefeld course really doesn't help accentuate the positives of the format.

Edit 2: now they're holding trackstands. Jesus Christ. How can anybody think that what we saw there is good for the sport?

Edit 3: thank God, Allah, Buddha, all 9 million deities of Shinto that ES International cuts to post-race analysis with Devon Kershaw, I don't think I could take any more of Winterton's BS about the greatness of any race that has a close finish regardless of the rest of it and his doe-eyed adoration of Klæbo because he reminds him of his beloved Northug. Kershaw has plenty positive to say about Johannes too, but he actually provides some analysis of why the guy is so good. LOL the coaches are all criticising Bolshunov for leading down the final hill, but everybody knew they didn't want to lead down that hill, that's why they came to a complete standstill! If everybody just stopped and stood still arguing over who took the lead, you may as well not bother holding the first five and a half laps. Complete joke of a race.

They should introduce a joker lap like in rallycross. Problem solved.

 

[KZD]

Today and tomorrow we have the individual races

On the women's side Johaug will win, the only doubt is by how much. The other places will be quite open though. I predict Ebba Andersson and Nepraeyva with the other Norwegians close by.

On the men's side it will be a fight for gold between Bolshunov and Niskanen. After Cogne I believe the Russian have the edge, but Niskanen will be closer. The fight for third will be quite open, Poltoranin or Sundby are probably the biggest candidates for it.

 

[Singer01]

Re:

Today and tomorrow we have the individual races

On the women's side Johaug will win, the only doubt is by how much. The other places will be quite open though. I predict Ebba Andersson and Nepraeyva with the other Norwegians close by.

Wouldn't be so sure, looks like the earlier starters are getting a descent advantage with the snow conditions. I still expect her to win, but maybe not walk it.
Kalla is 9 seconds off the pace after only just over 1km, she isn't the greatest Classic skiier, but she would be expected to be closer than that. TJ about to start now, so we should have an idea in about 5 mins when she does through the first split.
Karlsson must have started too quick, she is young and maybe got excited.

Someone else winning might be interesting but doesn't seem right that snow conditions can have such an affect.

That was pretty impressive by Johaug in those conditions, she needs to get her wins now because it appears the swedes are definitely coming. The relay could be great.

 

[zarnack]

Re: Re:

That was pretty impressive by Johaug in those conditions, she needs to get her wins now because it appears the swedes are definitely coming. The relay could be great.

Relay could be great if all Swedes were on form, but Andersson has clearly suffered due to illness. However, I think in the next championships in 2 years' time Sweden could start the 4x5 relay already as favourites, provided they all remain healthy of course.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

That was pretty impressive by Johaug in those conditions, she needs to get her wins now because it appears the swedes are definitely coming. The relay could be great.

Relay could be great if all Swedes were on form, but Andersson has clearly suffered due to illness. However, I think in the next championships in 2 years' time Sweden could start the 4x5 relay already as favourites, provided they all remain healthy of course.

I agree, i think in 2 years time Johaug will still be the best female XC skiier on the planet, but i think most of the rest of the top 5 could be Swedes instead of Norwegians.
Unless Weng gets her form back from the last 2 years of being the world No1 and Tour de Ski winner. Kalla, Karlsson, Nillson, Anderson should be a match for anyone in a 4x5 relay.

Anybody seen the start list for tomorrow, assuming conditions are similar who is out early with best chance to benefit?

 

[Norbea]

Even for a Norwegian it is great to see a young Swede give Johaug a real fight all the way to the finish line. Great race!

 

[Cance > TheRest]

Re: Re:

That was pretty impressive by Johaug in those conditions, she needs to get her wins now because it appears the swedes are definitely coming. The relay could be great.

Relay could be great if all Swedes were on form, but Andersson has clearly suffered due to illness. However, I think in the next championships in 2 years' time Sweden could start the 4x5 relay already as favourites, provided they all remain healthy of course.

I agree, i think in 2 years time Johaug will still be the best female XC skiier on the planet, but i think most of the rest of the top 5 could be Swedes instead of Norwegians.
Unless Weng gets her form back from the last 2 years of being the world No1 and Tour de Ski winner. Kalla, Karlsson, Nillson, Anderson should be a match for anyone in a 4x5 relay.

Anybody seen the start list for tomorrow, assuming conditions are similar who is out early with best chance to benefit?

Has Østberg said that she will retire in 2 years?

 

[BullsFan22]

Who are the geniuses who thought that starting these xc races during the warmest part of the day would be a good idea? When it's forecast to be over 10 celsius, wouldn't it be smart to start in the morning? Maybe not 9, but surely 10 or 11 when the conditions are still reasonable. Today they started at 3pm, tomorrow at 2pm. Tomorrow and Thursday could be the warmest two days of the championships. Brilliant scheduling by FIS. Who is standing in their way again for TV scheduling? Biathlon again? Alpine? NC? Tennis?

 

[search]

Who is standing in their way again for TV scheduling? Biathlon again? Alpine? NC? Tennis?

I'd guess it's more about chosing spectator-friendly times, isn't it?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

That was pretty impressive by Johaug in those conditions, she needs to get her wins now because it appears the swedes are definitely coming. The relay could be great.

Relay could be great if all Swedes were on form, but Andersson has clearly suffered due to illness. However, I think in the next championships in 2 years' time Sweden could start the 4x5 relay already as favourites, provided they all remain healthy of course.

I agree, i think in 2 years time Johaug will still be the best female XC skiier on the planet, but i think most of the rest of the top 5 could be Swedes instead of Norwegians.
Unless Weng gets her form back from the last 2 years of being the world No1 and Tour de Ski winner. Kalla, Karlsson, Nillson, Anderson should be a match for anyone in a 4x5 relay.

Anybody seen the start list for tomorrow, assuming conditions are similar who is out early with best chance to benefit?

Has Østberg said that she will retire in 2 years?

How about Haga? She's only the Olympic champion in the 10km chrono, albeit in freestyle. But the 10k will be in skate in the 2021 Worlds too. And Weng will still only be 29, she's had a terrible year but this is out of sync with the rest of her career. It is worth noting that Weng does have a tendency to not get it right at major championships, mind. I hope she can get it back, I like Heidi, but there's a distinct possibility that by the time we get to Oberstdorf she's the third strongest skier called Weng on the Tour...

 

[Bavarianrider]

Well that Karslon girl is like a gift from heaven for xc skiing and Sweden. Incredibly talented and very cute. She'll be the face of xc skking for the next 10 years.

Today's race will be extremely difficult. Tempertaures are expected to get extremely warm and part of the men's track is totally exposed to sun and is soft as hell. Waxing will be key. There might very well be an unexpected winner.