• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

Page 212 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Well, as almost always Lillehammer delivered. Two great days of XC skiing. That Lillehammer loop is simply by far the best loop in the world cup. Thanks to the long climbs and the lack of flat sections mass start races actually work there. The men's skiathlon was a sight to see. Great racing If only more tracks were like that. Today was one tough day in the relay. However, only 9 participating nations is really alarming. Compare that to biathlon were they have 20 plus. Really sad.
 
Thanks for your long and well thought posts about the state of XC skiing. I t really can't be denied that the sport is in a crisis. The problem is is that FIS thinks that to overcome this crisis they have to butcher cross country skiing more and more. In my opinion that's exactly the wrong path. If you think you an save a sport by robbing it of its identity you are clearly on the wrong path. Just look at Nordic Combined. 15 years ago it was actually in quiet a good situation, then they started messing around with formats and so on. No w the sport is pretty much dead.
 
I agree pretty much agree with a lot all of what you guys have written. The races today were exciting, for both men and women. Of course it was inevitable that Johaug would catch and then break away in her leg.

While there was intrigue for the race for 2nd and 3rd, it wasn't as good as it likely would have been with full squads. The Norwegians are missing Østberg. Haga isn't in good form. The Swedes are missing Andersson, Karlsso, and Nilsson. Kalla is there, but she isn't in form. Settlin, a breakout skier last year for Sweden, isn't in form either. She raced in both relays for the first team last season. The Russians are missing four top skiers due to pregnancy, and two of them are huge losses, Belorukova and Sedova. Both of them were part of the team that won bronze in Korea and last season in Austria. Nechaevskaya had a good anchor leg in the Olympics two years ago, considering it was her first Olympics and she was going up against Bjørgen and Nilsson. After that she hasn't done a good leg. Last year she fell on the final downhill in Beitostolen, she was dropped on the first hill in Ulricehamn, and was just surviving in the Seefeld relay, but managed to ski away from Ringwald. She lost a ton of time to Norway and Sweden that day. I was shocked to see how quickly she lost contact with the others around her. Yes the conditions were tough, but to lose contact so easily is alarming. As was mentioned by Libertine, this could very well be her last appearance for the 1st team. The problem is that only Nepryeava is capable of doing significant work in relays at the moment. Everyone else is either too inexperienced or simply not good enough. Durkina had a pretty good opening leg. She seemed to struggle with the kick early on, but she hung tough and stuck with the leaders. She had some good races on the world cup last season, getting to the top ten in Otepaa and elsewhere and she's medaled at both World Juniors and U23's. Likewise Zherebyateva. Istomina is another strong U23 skier, also had a good season last year, but it seems she's battling health issues, as she hasn't raced any races so far this year. The other Russians are also young. I suspect that results will be quite different when Sweden and Russia have a full and healthy squad. Both teams have a ton of U25 skiers so depth should not be an issue. Maybe I am being too harsh, but I feel like the Americans lucked out on the relay today. Next time all the contenders that have their full teams will match or even beat the Americans.
 
I've posted already on the decline of XC skiing, so have others, but I'll keep chiming in on that. I think it's really a sad state of affairs. The Lillehammer relays really bear that out. It was perfect evidence of where this sport is headed, unless some changes are made within FIS. But the structure of FIS isn't the main issue here. Yes, the peculiar changes to racing formats, the shortening of races, the amount of sprint races and skate races has (I think) angered some fans and racers, plus the huge amount of races, but the the unpredictability in weather (climate change, if you want), the rise of travel costs, the rise in equipment cost, lodging cost, media rights lost in some countries, the doping issues....it all adds up.

The sport will continue to decline and it will end up being a Scandinavian affair. If the Russians are banned, who will challenge the Norwegians? One or two nations on the women's side and a few individuals on the men's side. That's it. Irrespective of what we think about the Russians, the thought of watching the Norwegian championships every weekend will not have a positive effect on the viewers, even the most passionate and traditional fans.

Russia and Norway field two teams, in both the men's and women's relays. Not a single Italian raced in Lillehammer. Not a single Czech. Only one Austrian (yes, I know they've had their issues...), no Canadians, no Poles, no Slovaks, No Slovenians, no Belorussians, no Ukrainians, no Swiss relay teams, no Estonians (they are in the same boat as the Austrians). The other countries that could field a relay squad had not a lot to choose from. Of course many of the skiers from the countries I mentioned are not medal contenders, but this isn't about medals, it's about the lack of skiers and countries that have historically had a good amount of skiers competing on the World Cup on a regular basis (not just showing up for World's or Olympics) are hardly seen it seems like. As someone mentioned in a clinic thread, this sport will be dead in not too long a future, especially if it continues on this path.
 
I suspect that results will be quite different when Sweden and Russia have a full and healthy squad. Both teams have a ton of U25 skiers so depth should not be an issue. Maybe I am being too harsh, but I feel like the Americans lucked out on the relay today. Next time all the contenders that have their full teams will match or even beat the Americans.

Well, in olympics and world championships every country usually fields their best athletes for relays, and this is where USA has usually ended up 4th or 5th. Though they have won team sprint twice.

But countries don't care that much about world cup relays, and this is where they often end up with lesser teams. USA has often been 2nd or 3rd in world cup relays IIRC. I agree Sweden and Russia have more overall depth than USA, who seems to largely rely on 3 skiers in distance races as Caldwell has remained entirely a sprinter. However, for Russia this is clearly an off-season with many planned sabbaticals. And looks like Nepryaeva can't repeat her 2018-19 impressive season, so Russian women team will be already looking forward to the 2020-21 season. For Swedes it's unfortunate that some are ill or injured. But their depth these days is quite remarkable and they aren't massively hurt even if some star is missing. Someone like Lundgren or Sundling can do a solid enough job over 5 km if a substitute is needed. But to take on Norway they would need their elite squad though.

Russia and Norway field two teams, in both the men's and women's relays. Not a single Italian raced in Lillehammer. Not a single Czech. Only one Austrian (yes, I know they've had their issues...), no Canadians, no Poles, no Slovaks, No Slovenians, no Belorussians, no Ukrainians, no Swiss relay teams, no Estonians (they are in the same boat as the Austrians). The other countries that could field a relay squad had not a lot to choose from. Of course many of the skiers from the countries I mentioned are not medal contenders, but this isn't about medals, it's about the lack of skiers and countries that have historically had a good amount of skiers competing on the World Cup on a regular basis (not just showing up for World's or Olympics) are hardly seen it seems like. As someone mentioned in a clinic thread, this sport will be dead in not too long a future, especially if it continues on this path.

The problem with XC is that it is stuck in a negative feedback loop. Less competition -> less interest -> less money -> less competition -> ...

The comparisons are interesting that in biathlon you get 20+ countries for relays, while in XC barely 10 if even that. I think a lot of has to do with financial incentives. For the Czechs, Swiss, Italians, et al it's a cost to send 4 skiers (or 8 if both genders) to Norway to hang around near the back of the field. Of course, then again China fielded their relay teams. But I don't know their considerations. Maybe that's their way to prepare for the 2022 Olympics. Meanwhile Czechia, Switzerland and Italy have nothing to prepare for. For them fielding athletes has passed the point of no return, which indicates the negative feedback loop trend.

I don't know, what FIS will do about it. Maybe if things get ever more critical, they would indeed introduce mixed relay like proposed on the previous page. Easier to field 2 women and 2 men, than 4 women and 4 men.

Generally speaking among winter sports XC and NoCo are in clear trouble with lack of competition. In NoCo there are only 3 countries taking it at least somewhat seriously. Any other nation would be lucky to get anyone into top 10 in any given race, now that Akito Watabe has got older and declined. On the other hand ski jumping, biathlon and alpine skiing are in a healthy state and still have good international competition.
 
Last edited:
the thought of watching the Norwegian championships every weekend will not have a positive effect on the viewers, even the most passionate and traditional fans.

In Lillehammer men's skiathlon there were 10 Norwegians inside top 16. However, as a consolation to other countries it must be mentioned Norway can only field 8 skiers in most other events, so there are more available spots inside any top 16. :p

It's interesting though that female distance skiing seems to have somewhat more open international competition than men. Leaving aside Johaug, skiers from 5 countries (Nor, Swe, Fin, Usa, Rus) can finish in top 3 on a good day. Meanwhile in men's competition the only one, who can mix it with Norwegians and Russians is Niskanen. Manificat is getting old and while Jens Burman is the only bright spot in Swedish' men team, he isn't quite "there" yet.
 
Apparently Frida Karlsson could be out for a while with health problems. Suspect that she might have been overtraining due to youthful overexuberance, to try to close the gap with Johaug. Well... Östberg, Andersson, Karlsson - all out. What a poor situation in women skiing. Anyone, who could have even remotely threatened Johaug, is out. Oh well... Bring on 2020-21 season I guess, then?
 
In men's biathlon it looks like Norway and France have got clearly more depth than anybody else. They are also the natural favourites in any relays as long as they don't have to ski too many penalty loops. France has right now got as many as 6 skiers in overall top 20.

In women biathlon it's noteworthy how Nordic countries Norway and Sweden are gradually emerging as leading forces. They are also the only two countries, who have got as many as 4 competitors in overall top 30 at the moment.

Individually Wierer seems to be skiing faster than before (top3 level), and is shooting as fast as ever, so she has set the bar high for the season. Röiseland has got the ski speed to challenge her, if only she could shoot just as well. Also Hanna Öberg should have consistency to be a feature in the overall cup.
 
The French ski prep team have been absolutely on the money in the biathlon so far this world cup, and from last year you could see that they had a really strong group of skiers, with Fillon Maillet and Desthieux really becoming fixtures in the top 10 ski times, and Fourcade being Fourcade. I think Johannes hasn't quite been at his best so far this season, a bit like the year when Fourcade was recovering from mono in the off-season so he wasn't quite as unbeatable as he often had been, but was still good enough to win.
 
The French man are really strong this season and its great to see Tarjei Boe finally back at his best in terms of skiing speed. I wouldn't rule out a surprise fighting for the World Cup overall.
Is it just me or all these relays are boring?
 
Incredible win by Svahn. Sweden really looks set to overtake Norway in cross-country skiing in the female events (in a way they already did it last season), so many young talents coming through.

In the men's side Chanavat pushed Klaebo to the limit but the Norwegian still prevailed.I think Klaebo will likely be beaten this season in a skating sprint but these are the events in which he gains more on Bolshunov.
 
The biathlon relay was quite surprising. Countries like USA and Canada were in top 3 contention. While top teams like Sweden and Germany flopped completely. Also thought Switzerland's podium last weekend was a one-off, but... not really! All this doesn't seem to affect Norway though, who can beat the rest even with one penalty loop.

Regarding sprints yeah, Linn Svahn is clearly the next Swedish sprint supertalent. Only 20 years old too. I find the Davos course too easy though. They take that same one climb twice. Well, I guess it's better than Dresden though...
 
Eckhoff shooting a perfect 20/20? Well, that came out of nowhere. Meanwhile Wierer showed she isn't really untouchable this season, yet. An important second place for Öberg, because I think she is one of the very few, who can compete with Wierer on consistency over the season. Tandrevold keeps impressing. Clear step forward over last season, but it's yet unclear, how consistent she can be. I think France can also be at least somewhat optimistic about future prospects. Both Braisaz and Simon are 23-y-o, but their consistency at this stage is also unproven.
 
I don't know why I keep watching women's distance races, when I know what the outcome will be. The only way Johaug could lose is if there is a change of weather during the race and the seeded athletes get the short end of the stick, like Falun 2015. Or she races sick or injured and just doesn't have it. The 2016 ski tour Canada, at the end of the season, Weng was able to stay with Johaug and beat her twice. Last year in Quebec at the end of the season, Nilsson stayed with Johaug and beat her, twice. The course in Quebec is nowhere near as tough as Canmore, and a bigger, stronger athlete like Nilsson was able to stick in there and use her power to outsprint Johaug.

The Davos course is all climbing for the first half and all descending for the second half. That's why the huge gaps developing already in the first few k's and why Johaug's lead didn't balloon to a minute or more.

From 2007 when Johaug broke through to win a medal in Sapporo at the age of 18, to 2011 (in 2011 she broke away to win the 30km in Oslo), there was more competition in the women's field. You had the Finnish duo of Kuitunen and Saarinen plus strong teammates like Roponen. Petra Majdic was there for Slovenia, always in the running for podiums, especially in classic events. Ariana Follis and Marianna Longa, Magda Genuin and Sabina Valbusa for Italy, Evi Sachenbacher, Claudia Kunzel, Kathrin Zeller, Stefanie Boehler, Nicole Fessel for Germany, young teammates of Johaug like Jacobsen (still going strong!), Kristoffersen, of course Bjoergen and Kowalczyk, Kristin Steira who was always a contender in distance races, Shevchenko for Ukraine, Skofterud (RIP), a young Charlotte Kalla, Korosteleva, Khazova, Medvedeva, etc. Now we're happy if Johaug doesn't win by more than 30 seconds, which she won by today.

The women's field is lacking and it has gradually gone down in quality over the years. The Swedish women, the Russian and American women, and Parmakoski have had made it to the podium in the last couple seasons to join Johaug, but beyond that there's literally nothing, and beating Johaug in anything 5km or more is rare.
 
In 15 km only two Norwegians in top 10? Not sure what happened there, but this is completely unusual.

Bullsfan. It's quite telling about the state of affairs, when your post is mostly nostalgic. :D
 
I echo Mayomaniac regarding altitude. The Norwegians can be hit or miss at altitude. Krueger at his best in an individual middle distance skate race is very hard to beat, he's often fighting for the top 5 in these types of races.

The altitude can be an equalizer for the Central Europeans. You almost always see the French peppering the top 15-20 in Davos and other Alps venues. Even the Germans had something to cheer about with Dobler in 10th and Boegl in 17th. I expect good results of Central European/Alps skiers to continue next week in Planica (not as high as Davos, but it'll be felt) and at the TDS. After that, really the only altitude venue will be Canmore, for the last races of the season. Oberstdorf is around 800m so it's somewhere in between.

Happy for Cologna, the last time he stood on the podium was at the Falun WC finals in March 2018. Also cool for the Swiss fans and organizers to have their hero skiing so well. He paced that race so well. He was the fastest over the last lap, and really turned it on the last 2-3 km. He knows the course better than any one, and he's learned from starting a bit to quick the last couple seasons there. I think he's gathering form for the TDS. The problem for him is that his sprinting has gotten progressively worse since his foot/ankle injury in 2013. He doesn't have the raw speed anymore. He can still finish well, as we saw today, but making it into the top 30 will be tough, and he'll lose time to the leaders like Klaebo, Bolshunov, Ustiugov, Iversen...

Ustiugov really needed this podium, after yesterday's poor final 200m, where he looked good to make the semis but skied a poor last turn and missed out. Plus the whole WADA thing. Last week's relay win and today's podium will go a long way to get his confidence back. Honestly to me he didn't look all that snappy today, surprised that he could break into the podium spots, then again, nobody looked 'awesome today.' Maybe it's deceptive because how smooth the top guys are.

No better example of deceptiveness today was Andrew Young. Didn't see that coming, at all. You'd favor him on a fast course with lot's of gliding and no real uphills, and even with the second half of the course being mostly downhill, that's still a fantastic effort. Last year he had the third fastest 15km pursuit time in Quebec but those are often misleading because of pack racing and drafting and the front guys playing tactics.
 
I expect good results of Central European/Alps skiers to continue next week in Planica (not as high as Davos, but it'll be felt) and at the TDS.

Last season in Tour de Ski top 12 consisted of 6 Norwegians, 5 Russians and 1 Italian. So it didn't really seem like altitude helped anyone much outside the two powerhouses. What will be different this time? Maybe if Cologna or Manificat are on form, they can mix it with the better ones.
 
Meanwhile Wierer showed she isn't really untouchable this season, yet. An important second place for Öberg, because I think she is one of the very few, who can compete with Wierer on consistency over the season.

in regards to the overall Worldcup, it'll also be interesting what Wierer's schedule will look like. I guess retirement right after the Worlds is off the cards now (?!), but she may skip some (more) races before to be in perfect shape for Antholz.
 

TRENDING THREADS