Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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So we've seen the Olympic course in Sochi for the biathletes now, and they weren't kidding about the difficulty level! One would have thought the Russians would have been trying to maximise their own chances of medals, but looks like they're keen to scupper it with some brutal climbs straight out of the stadium. In both Individual races a top level athlete shooting 20/20 (Zaitseva for the women, Birnbacher for the men) couldn't compete with a weaker shooting performance from a much faster skier, and even then the run-in to the range was comparatively easy allowing for some surprisingly good shooting performances. Domracheva in particular annihilated the field. Gössner, the second fastest skier, was over a minute and a half behind for ski time, a distance that makes her Pokljuka pursuit look like a quiet stroll in the park. The men's race was a bit more close ski-time wise, but then it always is, and Fourcade is always going to come out on top in that respect when Svendsen isn't in attendance. It did at least give us the option of Andi's shooting vs. Fourcade's skiing. But not sure what the Russian medal plans are going to be - especially among the women they kind of needed a light, easy course to limit the gains that the Domrachevas, Gössners and Mäkäräinens of the world can make on them, with a difficult lead-in to the range that will challenge those weaker shots. Instead they got brutal ascents that cost their skiers a lot of time, and limited their gains from the shooting.
 
Libertine Seguros said:
You're Bavarian. You really ought to be aware of the biathlon talent factory down in Kaltenbrunn/Mittenwald that's been churning out top talents for some time now.

There will always be more people competing in XC than biathlon at the grass roots level, for these obvious reasons:
1) to do XC you need skis, to do biathlon you need the rifle as well, and getting those licensed is additional cost;
2) to compete in biathlon you need trails and a shooting range, whereas anywhere you have trails you can do XC skiing.

If you look at the number of participants as the level increases up towards the professional level I'd wager biathlon closes the gap in Germany quite considerably. Sure, we've discussed the tug of love over Miriam Gössner at length (and she's always said she likes biathlon more regardless of which would suit her best, a bit like Lars Berger), but yesterday Vanessa Hinz made her World Cup debut; until a year ago she'd never picked up a rifle, but saw biathlon as the way to go instead of cross-country. Until XC stops losing out to biathlon as the sport the bigger number of the most talented youngsters go to then Germany will be seen as a country where biathlon is bigger than XC.

Besides, here is a photo of the stands at the Tour de Ski in Oberhof. A pretty decent attendance by most accounts, but no way in hell do you see that much empty space at the Biathlon World Cup there.

That doesn't change the fact that the number of people who actually do biathlon is really low.
IT's almost a professional sport only. It's not a grass routes sports, that is my point.
 
Bavarianrider said:
That doesn't change the fact that the number of people who actually do biathlon is really low.
IT's almost a professional sport only. It's not a grass routes sports, that is my point.

Doesn't mean it is by proxy a smaller sport in Germany though. The more you need to participate, the lower the grass roots participation, this is pretty universal. Motorsport has very little grass roots participation because it's prohibitively expensive, but you wouldn't say Formula 1 is a small sport even though the number of people who actually compete in open-wheel single-seater racing is minimal. In Germany biathlon has better TV audiences, better live audiences and the percentage of the best skiers that choose biathlon tends higher the further up the ladder you go.
 
Indeed, it's similar to Motorsport.
It's a show sport.
But it's not a real sport. A real sport to me needs to be actualy done by a resonable amount of people.
Biathlon is like the gladitiors of old Rome.
IT's only purpose is to entertain the masses.
 
A reasonable number of hobby participants, or a reasonable number of active competitors? I mean, the biathlon WCs had longer startlists than the XC ones. Certainly there is a deeper field of potential winners, at least among the women. We're not talking about Nordic Combined here. Which I also like, but let's not kid ourselves, it's a pretty limited sport in terms of competitors.
 
Yea, course is really hard, but with a way-too-easy run-in to the range, a bit like Ruhpolding - but with the range sheltered from both sides so wind isn't as likely to cause a problem. It isn't Oberhof or Antholz, that's for sure. Suits Fourcade down to the ground because the likes of Birnbacher will lose too much on the skis, while the shooting is comparatively easy for him.

The biggest worry is that crazy downhill switchback. Lots of falls there, mostly Russian it must be said. Iourieva was the first, but the last and most important was Tsvetkov, who went careening into a tree and stayed down for a LONG time. Expect to see that banked or fenced by next year, and certainly some temporary measures in place for the rest of the weekend.
 
Sachenbacher really picked up shooting quick.
Slowly her skating is getting better. Today she had her first reasonable showing on the track.
If she can continue to improve maybe maybe she 'll be a contender in Sotchi?
Or was today an exception and the conditions suited her particularly well? Maybe.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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My hat’s off to…sorry ola vigen.. to emil. he was pure class today

in the sotchi sprints he was opposed by:

-the world’s most accomplished skier (northug)
- the worlds best young sprinter (retyvikh) who was the fastest in the qualifications.
- the world champion (kriukoff), i hear he went down in the qualifiers,,,

Yet, emil won on raw class !
 
python said:
My hat’s off to…sorry ola vigen.. to emil. he was pure class today

in the sotchi sprints he was opposed by:

-the world’s most accomplished skier (northug)
- the worlds best young sprinter (retyvikh) who was the fastest in the qualifications.
- the world champion (kriukoff), i hear he went down in the qualifiers,,,

Yet, emil won on raw class !

Well today's course was a lot shorter. It was apure sprint. Emil is the best pure sprinter.
In Sotchi next year Johnson won't stand a chance for a medal. Too long and too difficult.
 
Why is Emil so good in regular WC races, yet fails to deliver in championships? I still haven't wrapped my head around that. He's the most successful sprinter ever in terms of Sprint Cup wins and World Cup wins, yet he has no gold medals in Worlds or the Olympics.

And... Gwizdon? Well.... ... Insane ski speed in this particular race from her. Dasha looked a bit cooked at the end too, losing time to both Kuzmina and Berger... It's going to be a MUCH more interesting pursuit than the men's. Fourcade is just too dominant.
 
Some interesting startlists for the relay given that there's no Worlds to build for, lots of experimental selections.

Norway going for youth (Christiansen/L'Abée-Lund/Johannes Bø/Tarjei Bø), but sticking to the typical "strongest athletes on legs 2 and 4" formula; Russia try out Loginov (Shipulin/Loginov/Malyshko/Ustyugov) while hiding the out-of-form Shipulin on leg 1 and swapping Ustyugov and Malyshko over. Germany give Benedikt Doll a go - on the anchor leg! Lesser, who has anchored for much of the season despite his inexperience, moves to leg 1 (Lesser/Birnbacher/Peiffer/Doll). Vit Janov is rewarded for his good showings by a spot in place of Vitek in the strong Czech team (Šlesingr/Soukup/Janov/Moravec), while other teams showcase their talent in different forms; Slovenia move Fak to leg 2 with Bauer anchoring, Ukraine start off with Semenov and Deryzemlya but will be hard pushed to keep that momentum up later on; Italy move Hofer to leg 1 (!!!) and give Pietro Dutto a runout on leg 3 instead of Martinelli or Markus Windisch, while Latvia for some reason feel they're strong enough to justify moving the in-form Andrejs Rastorgujevs to anchor, while by giving both Ferry and Lindström the day off the Swedish team looks very weak. The favourites, you would then wager, would have to be France, who are not interested in giving anybody a go, sticking with the tried and trusted formula that has served them well for the last season (Simon Fourcade/Beatrix/Bœuf/Martin Fourcade), while similarly Austria (Eder/Mesotitsch/Eberhard/Landertinger) are more or less at full strength given that Sumann hasn't made the trip and Friedrich Pinter has had a disappointing couple of days with the rifle in Sochi.

EDIT: OK I just saw that Martin Fourcade tweeted that he woke up with back problems and has pulled out of the relay as a precaution. Simon Desthieux likely to replace him, not sure if they'll rejig the order.

EDIT EDIT: No rejig of the order, France going with Simon Fourcade/Beatrix/Bœuf/Desthieux. Also Landertinger has pulled out late and been replaced by Pinter.

Among the women, similar noticeable experimentation and/or resting of top names. The Norwegians (Fenne/Eckhoff/Flatland/Berger) look almost full strength given Solemdal's illness, and Tiril Eckhoff has been on very good form since the Worlds; Ukraine rest Pidhrushna but do not reshuffle the lineup, which means that Mariya Panfilova comes into the team as the anchor (Dzhyma/Vita Semerenko/Valj Semerenko/Panfilova). Russia replace the ailing Shumilova with Ekaterina Iourieva (probably winning the internal competition for the spot with some solid results in Oslo and here), and swap Vilukhina back to 2 where she's happiest (Glazyrina/Vilukhina/Iourieva/Zaitseva). Germany have gone really experimental. Henkel, who has anchored all season, moves to leg 1 of all places, while Miri Gössner moves from leg 2 to leg 3, which is normally the leg of slower skiers! The normally crucial legs 2 and 4 will be handled by a combination of inexperience and youth (Henkel/Sachenbacher-Stehle/Gößner/Dahlmeier). Will be interesting to see how Dahlmeier copes with the anchor leg, but she has taken the scene by storm so far (also interesting how Podchufarova, who outskied her in Obertilliach, hasn't had the same effect despite shooting well. Loginov has been the real standout of the young competitors stepping up late-season, while Bø is obviously taking a little while to adjust, which is fair enough, and after his huge and horrible crash yesterday it is unfair to put any judgment on Tsvetkov). France tried to go with no changes in the men's race, and in the women's the only change is that Brunet hasn't gone to Russia, so Marine Bolliet gets a go in her place (Bescond/Boilley/Bolliet/Dorin-Habert). This (Bolliet for Brunet) happened in Ruhpolding as well, and is the only change that the French relay team have made in more than two years, other than tinkering with the order. Italy (Ponza/Gontier/Runggaldier/Oberhofer) have no Wierer (the fastest shot on the circuit), so Ponza leads off with Runggaldier on leg 3. She struggled for ski speed earlier in the season on her leg, so I hope for her sake she doesn't find herself being chased by Gössner, Kuzmina and/or Semerenko. After many disasters with the rifle this year Nastassia Dubarezava has been jettisoned by Belarus, with Pisareva taking her place in the otherwise stable team (Skardino/Kalin'chik/Pisareva/Domracheva) while the Polish team move the in-form Hojnisz to anchor and take the out-of-form Nowakowska to leg 3 (Pałka/Gwizdoń/Nowakowska-Ziemniak/Hojnisz) - they should be a major threat, assuming Pałka's lack of ski speed yesterday was an outlier considering how strong she has been in the second half of the season. If she's not ill or anything, I can't really see why she's on leg 1 anymore, when she would be better served anchoring. Then we have the teams who have half a top level team. The Czechs will look to stay in this as long as possible with Vítková and Soukalová on legs 1 and 2, giving Landová and Tomešová enough chance to stay in it. Slovakia lead off with Gereková as usual but surprisingly move Kuzmina to leg 3, with Poliaková on leg 2 as a gamble and Chrapanová anchoring (no Fialková?). The other team likely to be up there at first is Finland, with Mari Laukkanen and Kaisa Mäkäräinen on legs 1 and 2 before depth starts to hurt them.
 
jsem94 said:
Sometimes we see Petter as a wheelsucker type skier, but he's just incredible. Crushing the field. Justyna also crushed the field, impressive display.

But that's why it's frustrating when he does do the wheelsucker-type skiing. He doesn't need to do that, and he can more than hold his own in a much more aggressive race, but instead people don't put enough pressure on him to make him, and he's more than happy to sit in the bunch and rely on his sprint.
 
Well, he does what he needs to do to win. If someone else wants to win, it's up to them not to wait for the sprint. I hate viewing it like this, and races are so boring when everyone is waiting for the sprint where they KNOW they're racing for second, but someone has to try. I mean, relays are usually just ridiculous - only in Vancouver did we get a good watchable relay (and it was fantastic).
 
After this victory he even said that he didn't like mass starts with sprints in the end, and that races with individual starts was real skiing.

Even Bavarianrider must warm up to him after saying something like that :D