Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Mayomaniac]

Ok, apparenty the sprints in Livigno will be on a meh course.
The good news is that there are 2 climbs on it, the 2nd features 12m of altitude gain (so probably rather typical sprint climbs)
The bad news is that the finishing straight is almost 350m long.

Source: https://www.livigno.eu/news/coppa-del-mondo-di-fondo:-a-livigno-svelato-il-percorso-di-gara

If it was a classic sprint guys like Mocellini and other highspeed double poling monsters would love it, but it's a skating sprint...
No idea who will actually be there, I assume the Italian sprinters will go there, but the rest?

 

[BullsFan22]

Swedish women, or at least Ribom and Sundling will be there. They are currently training in Livigno.

 

[BigCoward]

JTB wins again, its getting a bit silly now. Giacomel having another good run, shame Italy don't have one more decent male, they might have the makings of a great mixed relay team.

 

[Mayomaniac]

JTB wins again, its getting a bit silly now. Giacomel having another good run, shame Italy don't have one more decent male, they might have the makings of a great mixed relay team.

Yeah, it's not looking good for Lukas Hofer. Over the last 6-8 months he had to deal first with inflammation in both knees and now a inflammed cnemial tendon is the problem, atm it's not even sure if he'll actually continue his career.
Add in Windisch ending his career after last season and there's a bit of a vacuum on the men's side. They do have lots of talent in the junior ranks, so things should improve over the coming years.

 

[search]

even with Bionaz they could have won last week (Giacomel still was 1st at the exchange), but yeah, when the other teams bring their a game, it's probably not enough.

 

[Mayomaniac]

@BullsFan22 I made a Mistake when talking about the tracks in Obertilliach, they have a challenging one. It's the 7.6km long Leitertalrunde that starts and finishes in the Biathlon arena (could probably be shorted to 7.5kms). It features one long climb (1.2km at around 7%, but there's a flatter part in the middle) and the long descent is more of a downhill false flat where you still have to work a bit.
https://www.osttirol.com/obertillia...-biathlon/detail/obertilliach-leitertalrunde/

They use it as the final part of the Dolomitenlauf loop whenever they have to host that one in Obertilliach instead of around Lienz because of lack of snow, so the tracks should be wide enough.

 

[OJRvE]

Swedish women, or at least Ribom and Sundling will be there. They are currently training in Livigno.

Svahn will also be there, she will also compete in the Scandinavian Cup in Falun the upcoming weekend. I presume Hagström aswell even if she pulled out of the sprint in Falun to only race distance. Haven’t heard why so let’s hope it’s not a injury or something. Dahlqvist would be in Livingo normally aswell.

For the men, I hope to see Grate his season has been destroyed by illness but he”ll comeback in Falun this weekend.

 

[BigCoward]

Where has this version of Simon come from? Who else has made such a leap from good to *** amazing in such a way?

 

[Samu Cuenca]

Vittozzi might actually win today (knock on wood).

And perfect shooting from Ukaleq Slettemark makes me very happy, too, but she her ski time is still too far behind to get a top position.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Yes Lisa, really happy for her!

Speaking of XC skiing the organizers in Toblach are in talks with the FIS to also host the replacement races for the cancelled Les Rousses races, but atm it's just talks.

 

[search]

So far Les Rousses is not cancelled btw. FIS has just announced that the forecast looks better (=cold) now, and they will decide on Monday.

 

[KZD]

Where has this version of Simon come from? Who else has made such a leap from good to *** amazing in such a way?

To be honest I am more impressed with the overall strength of the French women's team than with Simon's improvement. She has always been a very good skier the biggest difference this year is that she improved her shooting a lot but we've seen this kind of thing with Eckhoff 3/4 years ago.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

To be honest I am more impressed with the overall strength of the French women's team than with Simon's improvement. She has always been a very good skier the biggest difference this year is that she improved her shooting a lot but we've seen this kind of thing with Eckhoff 3/4 years ago.

Yeah, it's definitely mainly her shooting that has improved. But she's obviously also been helped by the facts that neither Olsbu Røiseland nor Eckhoff were around from the start of the season, that Hauser, Herrmann-Wick, Hannah Öberg and Chevalier-Bouchet have been inconsistent and/or sick, that the Belarusians and Russians are missing and that Braizas-Bouchet is pregnant.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Where has this version of Simon come from? Who else has made such a leap from good to *** amazing in such a way?

Kaisa Mäkäräinen in 2010-11 and Olsbu Røiseland's self-reinvention in the second half of 2015-16 were way more sudden, also Soukalová emerging in 2012-13, although a first emergence at 23 is a fair bit less remarkable than somebody taking a huge leap at 26-27.

Simon was 12th overall last season and 13th the year before that, but she started the season last year in horrible form, although through Annecy and Oberhof she had a string of results where she went 2-2-2-3-4 - one in a relay but the other four not, two behind Elvira Öberg, and two behind Marte Olsbu Røiseland (and Dzinara Alimbekava, who of course is also not there). Of those who beat her in those World Cups you have Eckhoff twice (not competing), Olsbu twice (only just returned to competition this season), Preuß in 20-21 (has been sick twice and barely raced this season), Alimbekava in 20-21 (Belarus banned from competition) and Braisaz-Bouchet in 21-22 (absent through pregnancy). She has leapfrogged the likes of the elder Öberg and Tandrevold, though, who are in roughly the same age curve as her (whereas the likes of Wierer and Herrmann being later in their careers might have been easier to explain away).

She's definitely made forward progress, but I don't think it's too crazy relative to where she was before.

 

[BigCoward]

Kaisa Mäkäräinen in 2010-11 and Olsbu Røiseland's self-reinvention in the second half of 2015-16 were way more sudden, also Soukalová emerging in 2012-13, although a first emergence at 23 is a fair bit less remarkable than somebody taking a huge leap at 26-27.

Simon was 12th overall last season and 13th the year before that, but she started the season last year in horrible form, although through Annecy and Oberhof she had a string of results where she went 2-2-2-3-4 - one in a relay but the other four not, two behind Elvira Öberg, and two behind Marte Olsbu Røiseland (and Dzinara Alimbekava, who of course is also not there). Of those who beat her in those World Cups you have Eckhoff twice (not competing), Olsbu twice (only just returned to competition this season), Preuß in 20-21 (has been sick twice and barely raced this season), Alimbekava in 20-21 (Belarus banned from competition) and Braisaz-Bouchet in 21-22 (absent through pregnancy). She has leapfrogged the likes of the elder Öberg and Tandrevold, though, who are in roughly the same age curve as her (whereas the likes of Wierer and Herrmann being later in their careers might have been easier to explain away).

She's definitely made forward progress, but I don't think it's too crazy relative to where she was before.

I didn't follow when kaisa made her breakthrough.
Maybe its just the passage of time but I don't remember MOR or Eckhoff being 'quite' as dramatic.

I'm probably speaking too soon but it's probably not even worth watching the men's relay, that Norwegian team is absurdly strong compared to everyone else. Though it appears that they aren't having Christiansen on the last leg which I find odd, he was crazy strong whenever he did it last year,.
Not having the pressure on JTB of the final leg allows him to go for broke and really put the hammer down.

 

[tobydawq]

Vittozzi might actually win today (knock on wood).

And perfect shooting from Ukaleq Slettemark makes me very happy, too, but she her ski time is still too far behind to get a top position.

The Danish commentators acting as if she won Olympic gold because she gained world cup points is too over the top for my taste.

 

[Samu Cuenca]

The Danish commentators acting as if she won Olympic gold because she gained world cup points is too over the top for my taste.

Kristian Wulff is also an even bigger fan of her than I am. But to be fair, it was a milestone for Greenlandic biathlon.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I didn't follow when kaisa made her breakthrough.
Maybe its just the passage of time but I don't remember MOR or Eckhoff being 'quite' as dramatic.

I'm probably speaking too soon but it's probably not even worth watching the men's relay, that Norwegian team is absurdly strong compared to everyone else. Though it appears that they aren't having Christiansen on the last leg which I find odd, he was crazy strong whenever he did it last year,.
Not having the pressure on JTB of the final leg allows him to go for broke and really put the hammer down.

The thing with MOR was that it was mid-season, her results had been improving but she was largely a shooting-biased competitor who relied on good shooting to score well and was hidden on leg 1 of relays with Eckhoff providing a rather inconsistent anchor leg. Then they turned up to the Holmenkollen World Championships, and suddenly Marte was shooting worse but skiing far better than she had been earlier in the season, and turned into the logical relay anchor. It wasn't that her level suddenly leapt up (it improved from where she had been, but not that different in terms of level jump to Simon at present), it's that the type of athlete she was changed so much in so little time to facilitate that. We're used to that kind of change being something that happens between seasons when an athlete with a biased skillset works hard on the element they were inferior at, like Lisa Theresa Hauser a couple of years ago or Eckhoff herself in 2014, going from somebody who was consistent but not able to get wins to somebody who was able to threaten a lot of wins but was inconsistent; or e.g. after a baby-break like happened to Anaïs Chevalier and Marie Dorin-Habert. But Marte did it immediately before the Worlds - but then has remained that athlete ever since. To use a current athlete comparison fitting well in terms of age and situation, if Vanessa Voigt rocked up to the Worlds in Oberhof (on home snow like Marte was in 2016) and was consistently in the top 3 ski times but shooting down at 80%. It's not shocking to see Voigt do well, but to see her skiing like that and doing so consistently would be.

 

[BigCoward]

The shooting range being entirely green vexes me.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The thing with MOR was that it was mid-season, her results had been improving but she was largely a shooting-biased competitor who relied on good shooting to score well and was hidden on leg 1 of relays with Eckhoff providing a rather inconsistent anchor leg. Then they turned up to the Holmenkollen World Championships, and suddenly Marte was shooting worse but skiing far better than she had been earlier in the season, and turned into the logical relay anchor. It wasn't that her level suddenly leapt up (it improved from where she had been, but not that different in terms of level jump to Simon at present), it's that the type of athlete she was changed so much in so little time to facilitate that. We're used to that kind of change being something that happens between seasons when an athlete with a biased skillset works hard on the element they were inferior at, like Lisa Theresa Hauser a couple of years ago or Eckhoff herself in 2014, going from somebody who was consistent but not able to get wins to somebody who was able to threaten a lot of wins but was inconsistent; or e.g. after a baby-break like happened to Anaïs Chevalier and Marie Dorin-Habert. But Marte did it immediately before the Worlds - but then has remained that athlete ever since. To use a current athlete comparison fitting well in terms of age and situation, if Vanessa Voigt rocked up to the Worlds in Oberhof (on home snow like Marte was in 2016) and was consistently in the top 3 ski times but shooting down at 80%. It's not shocking to see Voigt do well, but to see her skiing like that and doing so consistently would be.

Fair point, but overall I always find it more out of the blue when someone suddenly skis a lot faster than before. Someone who has always been a fast skiers finally getting the right shooting coach/finding the right shooting set-up seems to be a lot more common.

Meanwhile young Hannah Auchentaller got her first season win in the IBU cup this year. with her and Linda Zingerle we have some great second generation prospects coming up.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Ok, today I watched the Ski classics race of the Pustertaler Skimarathon live near the track.
It's humbling to see even nearly all the women doublepole up the steepest climb of the race. I guess diagonal stride would be more effective, but the overall profile of the race almost forces you do use nowax skis to keep up doublepoling with the best.

On the Prato Piazza challenge tomorrow I'd actually use kickwax because imo on the long final climb (7kms at over 8%) the doublepole kick technique might be the most effective, you can go fast and have still something left in the tank to go all you doublepoling on the final part of the climb.

 

[OJRvE]

Very bad preformance from Linn Svahn in the Scandinavian Cup today - sadly she is not back.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I remember when I was a kid the Pustertaler Skimarathon started east of my hometown and they went straight through the town, the track when right back my house. Back then the race finished in Antholz, with a long uphill drag. More than once they had to manipulate the thermometers so that they could still start, it was that cold. Still, this winter is a total outliner, so far we've hit below -20 only on 1-2 days. I remember multiple weeks with that kind of temperatures and also a cold wind blowing less than years ago.

 

[BigCoward]

I fully expect Roiseland to pick up far more points than anyone else over the rest of the season. She is definitely the class act of women's biathlon (albeit Eckhoff is probably a better skiier if/when she comes back).

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They're legitimately talking about the 'inspirational' Jess Diggins in a biathlon relay.