Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[Mayomaniac]

I like her, but that move by Skistad was on the limit...

 

[Mayomaniac]

Way too loud music, just like always in Toblach...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Eiduka in the semi finals. GC top 5 or we riot!

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Eiduka in the semi finals. GC top 5 or we riot!

You‘ll riot anyway as long as Diggins is going well.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Massive Anger fail, trying to v2 all the way up that climb with such deep conditions, only to blow up.

The conditions should favour Pellegrino a lot more that qualifying specialist Hellweger.

With 2m tall Chioccetti I'm more curious about how he does tomorrow in a classic distance race.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You‘ll riot anyway as long as Diggins is going well.

Eh, the stage is set for her. It's about as perfect a setup for her as is humanly possible. The first half of the race is in her favourite venue, none of the reasonable opposition is doing well in this sprint or particularly healthy, and the sprint courses suit her to a tee.

Just saying though, if FIS is really as intent on growing that American audience to replace the lost figures from Russian viewers as it seems, they might want to think long term and design the courses around people who will be around for years to come. Diggins is 32 and Brennan 35, whereas my favoured American girls Laukli and McCabe are 23 and 22 respectively

 

[Mayomaniac]

Schumacher with his best sprint ever?
Ogden is such a meme skier, I'd be afraid about him taking me out in a skating sprint.

 

[Mayomaniac]

The whole German team is overflowing with Vril.

Happy to see Hellweger in a Semi. I've met his family in Toblach before. I'll say this, If I'd openly lust about female skiers as much as his sister does about male ones, I'd get locked up.

 

[dobrien]

Svahn looked easy there.

Edit: nice skiing by Eiduka too even though she didn't make it through.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Çrazy how watered down the men's field is. Almost comical.

 

[BullsFan22]

Probably the weakest TDS field ever.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Çrazy how watered down the men's field is. Almost comical.

Norway also insisted in bringing 2nd rate sprinters alongside Valnes, Golberg and Klaebo (before he got sick) instead of more distance skiers.

But yeah, no Russians, no Klaebo, no Krüger and lots of guys are below their best. Pellegrino in last year's shape would probably be fighting for the overall win.

Edit: They kinda deserved a watered down field with how they have watered down distance skiing. People love to talk about how good Klaebo is, but Northug would have a field day with the modern route (and less competition).

 

[BullsFan22]

Norway also insisted in bringing 2nd rate sprinters alongside Valnes, Golberg and Klaebo (before he got sick) instead of more distance skiers.

But yeah, no Russians, no Klaebo, no Krüger and lots of guys are below their best. Pellegrino in last year's shape would probably be fighting for the overall win.

Edit: They kinda deserved a watered down field with how they have watered down distance skiing. People love to talk about how good Klaebo is, but Northug would have a field day with the modern route (and less competition).

Also no Niskanen….

 

[Mayomaniac]

Also no Niskanen….

Yeah, I forgot to mention him, another one who would have added a lot to the race, if in shape.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Edit: They kinda deserved a watered down field with how they have watered down distance skiing. People love to talk about how good Klaebo is, but Northug would have a field day with the modern route (and less competition).

Looking at What Klæbo did in Trondheim I’m confident he would’ve smoked peak Northug in all those 3 races.

 

[dobrien]

Looking at What Klæbo did in Trondheim I’m confident he would’ve smoked peak Northug in all those 3 races.

You are imho one of the more knowledgeable posters on this thread so I say this with all due respect, but it seems like a massive stretch to say Klaebo would have 'smoked' a skier who many consider the greatest of all time based on what he did at Trondheim? The competition was frankly very thin there; 4 other Norwegians plus Chanavat in the sprint final, he won the skiathlon by only .7 over Andrew Musgrave, a fine skier but hardly a Dario Cologna, and in classic individual start was just 21 seconds ahead of noted Norwegian skiing legend Henrik Doennestad in 3rd. Those were excellent performances by him but those fields were very weak sauce. Just my .02 of course but I'm not seeing that.

 

[Bavarianrider]

I feel that Northug massively benifited of the tactical racing that was going on in mass start races from roughly 2003 to 2015. Since then mass start/ pursuit races have luckily been raced a lot more aggressive on average. Northug clearly benifited of his era. Yes he die win Individual races, but he needed fast icy conditions to do so.

 

[dobrien]

I feel that Northug massively benifited of the tactical racing that was going on in mass start races from roughly 2003 to 2015. Since then mass start/ pursuit races have luckily been raced a lot more aggressive on average. Northug clearly benifited of his era. Yes he die win Individual races, but he needed fast icy conditions to do so.

I've seen my share of parades since 2015; I don't think that type of racing went away completely. Not like I'm a huge Northug fan, just don't think it's valid to use Trondheim as evidence Klaebo could have smoked Northug is all. The guy won 20 worlds and Olympics medals, 15 of which were gold, across a wide variety of disciplines (yes, I realize there are relays in there), a TdS overall, 3 overall World Cups, not to mention his junior worlds medals. Those weren't all given away to him. Anyway, as always it's difficult to compare across generations, so who knows, but I think peak Northug would be plenty competitive with Klaebo today; he certainly would not get 'smoked'.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Tomorrow there should be just a few cm of fresh snow (overnight snowfall), that could influence the races.
Barp had good speed on the finishing straight, but he himself said that he lacks experience when it comes to fighting for positions.
Graz had the flue for 5-7 days, so he was rather happy about his showing.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

You are imho one of the more knowledgeable posters on this thread so I say this with all due respect, but it seems like a massive stretch to say Klaebo would have 'smoked' a skier who many consider the greatest of all time based on what he did at Trondheim? The competition was frankly very thin there; 4 other Norwegians plus Chanavat in the sprint final, he won the skiathlon by only .7 over Andrew Musgrave, a fine skier but hardly a Dario Cologna, and in classic individual start was just 21 seconds ahead of noted Norwegian skiing legend Henrik Doennestad in 3rd. Those were excellent performances by him but those fields were very weak sauce. Just my .02 of course but I'm not seeing that.

In the sprint races there is no doubt in my mind that Klæbo is on a complete different level than Northug and that peak Klæbo should beat peak Northug close to 9 out of 10 times. The difference between them in sprint quality are massive, Klæbo has about the same number of sprint races NOT won in 7 seasons as Northug actually won.

In the skiathlon, the distance going from 30 kilometer to 20 kilometer nowadays should be a benefit for Klæbo versus peak Northug. By that I mean his sprint after 20 km is probably slighlty better than hus sprint after 30 km (or 50 km), while for Northug it didnt seem to matter how long the race was. Northug never set the pace and dropped people in mass start races, so there is no reason to believe he would’ve upped the pace in the Trondheim race (and the pace was high, as seen when only 4 guys remained in the end) and it would’ve comed down to the last kilometer. On a 20k race in the form Klæbo showed, Im sure he would beat Northug in that sprint. Yes, he only beat Musgrave with 0.7 but I think it’s meaningless to look at time gaps in a finish like this. Klæbo decided it over the last hill top and didnt have to properly sprint to the finish line. With Northug it would be a sprint between them and Im sure Klæbo would’ve won a high speed sprint as the one in Trondheim.

The 10 km would also be close of course, Northug had a couple of outstanding interval start races. Again I think the shorter distance would benefit Klæbo and that he would edge Northug in a short classic race.

It’s a bit puffy to say that Klæbo wouldve “smoked” Northug, but Northugs strongest quality was that he was faster than his opponents, and if he would’ve faced a faster guy his strengths that won him all the gold medals would’ve only given him silver. And Klæbo is faster.

Compring Northug and Klæbo I think Northug deserves to be given a clear edge on 50 km races and on individual skating races. Northugs maybe biggest legacy is the relay last legs with 5 WC relays in a row. I dont think Northug ever would drop Klabo in a 10k skate and that Klabo as the faster guy wouldve beaten him atleast 4 out of those 5 times if they had started together.

Northug has 8 titles and I think Klæbo couldve won some of those races if he was there racing Northug.
- The sprint in Falun no doubt.
- The 50 km in Vancouver I’m also pretty sure Klæbo couldve won. The course wasn’t that hard, the pace was not impressive and it was a massive group in the end.
-The 50 km in Falun also, the snow made it impossible to make it a very hard race.
-The 50 km in Liberec was also a slow race with a big pack, Klæbo has never done a 50 k like this but it should’ve been possible to survive.
-The 30 and 50 k in Holmenkollen could be a possibility too. It wasn’t raced that hard and the Norwegians had superior skis, especially in the 50k.
-The 15 km in Val di Fiemme is the one Klæbo definitively wouldn’t have replicated.

If you put Northug in the Championship races of 2018-2023:
Peyonchang:
- 30k: could’ve survived, but Krueger won with a tactical solo that would’ve also hindered Northug
- 15k: Cologna was amazing this day, i think not.
- 50k: no chance, Niskanen and Bolshunov was outstanding

Seefeld:
- 30k: Northug could’ve survived, but he never faced a pace and such a reduced group early in any of his championship races.
- 15k: maybe
- 50k: no chance to compete with Holund in such a race.

Oberstdorf:
-30k: He could've survived. but once again a early selection we never saw in Northug era.
- 15k: no chance, course was hard and Holund outstanding
- 50k: he could be there

Beijing:
No chance in any of those races in those courses and with the slow snow.

Planica:
30k: no chance against Krueger in my opinion.
15k: with a Val di Fiemme race he would be close.
50k: here he shouldve had a good chance.

In general my feeling is that the mass start races have been much faster and much more selective since 2018 (from cirka 2012 to 2017 it got more and more normal with selective racing in mass starts). Mostly because of Bolshunov (and Niskanen in classic part of skithlons and classic mass start races) and some outstanding performances by Holund and Krueger.

 

[KZD]

Niskanen winning again is a bit of surprise given her shape earlier in the season. Diggins very strong as expected and Carl continues to impress.

 

[Mayomaniac]

I was standing near some Finns early on the stadium climb, they were all in on Krista and Kerttu.

I like Skistad, but her diagonal stride is horrible to watch. Almost enough hip rotation to throw a roundhouse kick.

My father likes Karlsson and Sundling, for rather obvious reasons.

Diggins went deep, not just Diggins deep, people were actually worried about her at the finish. Nice gesture by Niskanen, helping her out of her skis.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Niskanen winning again is a bit of surprise given her shape earlier in the season.

7th in Kuusamo and 5th in Trondheim with also a semi final in the classic sprint in Östersund showed signed of gradually better form towards this Tour. The classic chasing start in Davos and the mass start in Val di Fiemme suits her very well, shes clearly a candidate for the podium if she can keep up with Brennan tomorrow.

 

[dobrien]

In the sprint races there is no doubt in my mind that Klæbo is on a complete different level than Northug ...<snip very interesting stuff>

What I definitely cannot compete with is this post! The phrase "Release the Kraken!" comes to mind...

That's an interesting rundown; thanks for the response. A lot of "would haves and could haves" which would never hold up in a court of law but which can in fact make for fun conjecture!

To be clear, all I was really getting at with my initial response was that I thought it a stretch to say Klaebo would have "smoked" (which where I come from means 'to crush') PEAK (meaning the best version of) Northug at Trondheim based on Klaebo's performance there. Had you posted something like "I definitely think Klaebo would have gotten the better of Northug all 3 days" or something a tad less hyperbolic I would have been more likely to agree or not even raise it. You did mention that it was a little bit "puffy" (an adjective which gave me a chuckle, thanks!) so it's all good.

Regarding the .7 difference to Young, I realize it can be meaningless to look at time gaps alone, get it. You could say Klaebo did just enough to win there, but you might also argue if he had it to stick the knife in a little harder in front of the home crowd he might have done so. Unknowable.

Agree with you on Bolshunov; definitely missing the Russians.

Anyway, thanks for a very interesting response; that was a good read.

 

[dobrien]

7th in Kuusamo and 5th in Trondheim with also a semi final in the classic sprint in Östersund showed signed of gradually better form towards this Tour. The classic chasing start in Davos and the mass start in Val di Fiemme suits her very well, shes clearly a candidate for the podium if she can keep up with Brennan tomorrow.

Any race won by a Niskanen, especially Kerttu, is a good race in my book! Wasn't able to watch live, looking forward to the replay. Nice to see signs of life from Krista as well.

Worrying from Kern; she was ill over the holidays; based on her sprint qualifier there's some speed there but no depth. Hope she can rebound. Ebba struggling too; tomorrow will be interesting.