Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[python]

Is Hervey better in free style or similar as in classic?

alex harvey is probably one of the top 5 true all rounders today. really not easy to place his specialty...of the almost 50 international races that he podiumed ( both fis-rated and world cup) his record is about the same...

what makes it difficult to pick his specialty is that he is also an excellent sprinter in both styles (though i'd dare to place him as a better skating sprinter).

he is so universal that he won several skiathlons (15+15) and podiumed in the 50 k events...

my pick would be that he's a marginally better skater when compared to himself. that said, i would not place his skating in the same very top category as legkov, hellner, northug, roenthe, manificat, cologna and perhaps sundby. but on his day he is more than capable, and he did, to outmatch these guys skating, except perhaps a sustained long uphill (i have several memories)

that all could be of consequence in tomorrow's pursuit as he and cologna are are destined to team up given their close start times.

but it would not matter on alp cermis. i heard an interview with him yesterday where he said - if i did not misheard - he wont climb cermis. even if he did, he would likely not produce a heroic climb like other guys are capable of - bauer (in the past), di centa, legkov, babikov, roethe etc...

 

[Kokoso]

alex harvey is probably one of the top 5 true all rounders today. really not easy to place his specialty...of the almost 50 international races that he podiumed ( both fis-rated and world cup) his record is about the same...

what makes it difficult to pick his specialty is that he is also an excellent sprinter in both styles (though i'd dare to place him as a better skating sprinter).

he is so universal that he won several skiathlons (15+15) and podiumed in the 50 k events...

my pick would be that he's a marginally better skater when compared to himself. that said, i would not place his skating in the same very top category as legkov, hellner, northug, roenthe, manificat, cologna and perhaps sundby. but on his day he is more than capable, and he did, to outmatch these guys skating, except perhaps a sustained long uphill (i have several memories)

that all could be of consequence in tomorrow's pursuit as he and cologna are are destined to team up given their close start times.

but it would not matter on alp cermis. i heard an interview with him yesterday where he said - if i did not misheard - he wont climb cermis. even if he did, he would likely not produce a heroic climb like other guys are capable of - bauer (in the past), di centa, legkov, babikov, roethe etc...

Thank you for your opinion! And I'm sorry for writing Harvey's name wrong way. So skater you think. I think he also won all his WC in skating.

 

[Ferminal]

So it is 25km Zzz.

Still, the dynamic should be pretty intense with Sundby/Northug to power along. I guess Sundby will do the majority of work over the first 2/3 as it's he who is concerned about the GC. Just maybe Northug tries to distance him some time before the final straight? Cologna has to bring it today.

But yeh Polto

 

[python]

yeah, 25k..turns out fis was having wrong information in their calendar...

northug - not a single pull, not one...characteristically, sundby after the finish found belov and shook his hand, did not see (or they did not show) sundby greeting northug, who imho deserved a finger

 

[Dazed and Confused]

lol, this is almost as good as an LBL with Gerro winning.

Anyway enjoyed the 10km, classic, individual yesterday.

 

[Flamin]

Wow, amazing comeback from Shipulin in the relay. Great race in such harsh conditions.

 

[Pazuzu]

On the other hand, the Tour de Ski is the only thing she hasn't won, so maybe she's giving it a proper tilt this year, seeing Justyna's not at her best. They had an interesting fight on the Alpe Cermis a couple of years ago that Justyna won, but Therese Johaug last year was the first time a Norwegian won the event (despite her having set the best time on Cermis every year since she started racing it, she'd always be too far down to catch Kowalczyk).

Turns out Bjørgen is willing to potentially sacrifice medals at the World Champions in order to win the Tour de Ski. http://fasterskier.com/article/bjorgen-continues-tour-de-ski-winning-streak/

Bjørgen willing to sacrifice Falun for Tour de Ski
In the nine-year history of Tour de Ski, Bjørgen has collected nine stage victories, and 21 Tour de Ski podiums. She has 29 Olympic and World Championship medals, she has won the overall World Cup three times, the sprint World Cup four times and the distance World Cup twice. But she has never won the overall Tour de Ski.

Today Bjørgen touched her own Tour de Ski record: The only female skier to have four stage wins in one and the same tour. She did that in the 2011/2012-season, when she was second overall behind Kowalczyk.

After the sprint victory at Val Müstair, Switzerland, yesterday, Bjørgen told reporters she is willing to sacrifice potential medals at the World Championships in Falun, Sweden, next month for the overall Tour de Ski 2015 victory.

“I’m taking that chance just by being here,” Bjørgen said to NRK prior to the 5k in Toblach.

It is no secret that seven races in nine days can take a toll on the body, wear skiers down and leave them susceptible to illness and injuries. It has happened to numerous Tour de Ski athletes before, and several skiers are sitting out the Tour just to avoid the exposure – including Sweden’s Charlotte Kalla.

 

[frenchfry]

Turns out Bjørgen is willing to potentially sacrifice medals at the World Champions in order to win the Tour de Ski. http://fasterskier.com/article/bjorgen-continues-tour-de-ski-winning-streak/

Bjørgen willing to sacrifice Falun for Tour de Ski
In the nine-year history of Tour de Ski, Bjørgen has collected nine stage victories, and 21 Tour de Ski podiums. She has 29 Olympic and World Championship medals, she has won the overall World Cup three times, the sprint World Cup four times and the distance World Cup twice. But she has never won the overall Tour de Ski.

Today Bjørgen touched her own Tour de Ski record: The only female skier to have four stage wins in one and the same tour. She did that in the 2011/2012-season, when she was second overall behind Kowalczyk.

After the sprint victory at Val Müstair, Switzerland, yesterday, Bjørgen told reporters she is willing to sacrifice potential medals at the World Championships in Falun, Sweden, next month for the overall Tour de Ski 2015 victory.

“I’m taking that chance just by being here,” Bjørgen said to NRK prior to the 5k in Toblach.

It is no secret that seven races in nine days can take a toll on the body, wear skiers down and leave them susceptible to illness and injuries. It has happened to numerous Tour de Ski athletes before, and several skiers are sitting out the Tour just to avoid the exposure – including Sweden’s Charlotte Kalla.

From what we have seen so far this year, any "sacrifice" of world cup medals is purely hypothetic. The best we can hope for appears to be a reduction in the winning margin.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Wow, amazing comeback from Shipulin in the relay. Great race in such harsh conditions.

Landertinger-less Austrian men get lapped!!! Austria's women did better than their men, that's a proper rarity, though it may get less of one, Hauser in particular looks like a pretty good talent.

 

[Pazuzu]

From what we have seen so far this year, any "sacrifice" of world cup medals is purely hypothetic. The best we can hope for appears to be a reduction in the winning margin.

Obviously. But in the past Bjoergen would've held back to save herself for medal events. Not this year. She's been on a tear from the word go, whereas Charlotte Kalla is saving herself for the Worlds. It'll be interest to see how a fresh Kalla does against a (presumably) tired Bjoergen in Falun. I'll say this much, if Bjoergen does maintain this form the entire season (and especially if she runs the table in Falun) she'll go down as one of the most dominant athletes ever, on par with Michael Phelps.

 

[python]

today is a day off at the tds...time to reflect on the yesterday's pursuit and attempt some prediction for the remainder of the race.

apparently, with still 2 stages left, the podium winners atop alp cermis can be predicted with 80- 90% accuracy. unfortunately, cologna's chance for a podium is practically gone losing one minute yesterday. it was a big surprise as he normally was very strong in the 5th stage during the 3 years he won. thus, he was the biggest loser yesterday.

who was the biggest winner ? there can be several answers...'muzzy' - i still cant fathom it - could be one since he posted the fastest time... harvey, richardsson and vyleg should be a happy bunch since they all moved up from their starting roster...but the REAL winner was sundby who should thank belov (as he publicly did by raising his hand) for helping to destroy cologna.

that skiing we saw from the quartet in front was a bit strange...that the 'king ski sucker' was as ever skiing as a selfish *** he is surprised no one. the surprise was the amount of time he spent in skate-1 while his companions were comfortable in skate-2 up moderate hills. was he tired as he claimed later or it was his trademark to save himself for later ?

to be sure, he he had used skate-1 before on seemingly shallow hills...what made it look different this time, at least for me, was that he furiously poked snow in a very low deep bow when either sundby or belov pulled. perhaps he was not lying that he barely survived

whatever is the truth it must cost him both in terms of recovery and the desire of those he 'cheated' to get even.

in a classic mass start tomorrow they will fight for a total 45 bonus seconds. there will be a stampede before each line. northug will surely parttake, but he will be outnumbered by the superior classicists lke sundby, richardsson, belov, polto not to mention a bunch of the superb, occasionally playing their team card russian classics like vyleg, japarov and besmerrnyck...besides, if northug did show a soft spot in this tds, it was in a classic style. there certainly will be a 'bloody' fight.

...other thoughts... the earlier uncharacteristic complaint by cologna that sundby should have been punished for violating a demarcation line in a prologue, was perhaps the first sighn of his self-realized less than stellar form...sundby revealed his weight at 72 kg, but claimed it being less advantageous to his climbing alp cermis than northug's 85 kg b/c of ...his mass index etc etc of course, it is just a poker...

 

[Flamin]

Landertinger-less Austrian men get lapped!!! Austria's women did better than their men, that's a proper rarity, though it may get less of one, Hauser in particular looks like a pretty good talent.

Yes, quite a few surprises, like the Bulgarians in 7th (without Anev) and the only team without a penalty lap.

 

[Kokoso]

First win for Vitkova in WC. And great one. But no mention here about that. Yeah, she's Czech so that's understandable. For Czech fan today was great day but for Czech TV viewer it was sad day, because German tv almost completely managed to ingore Vitkova But again maybe it was good thing since she won

 

[Libertine Seguros]

First win for Vitkova in WC. And great one. But no mention here about that. Yeah, she's Czech so that's understandable. For Czech fan today was great day but for Czech TV viewer it was sad day, because German tv almost completely managed to ingore Vitkova But again maybe it was good thing since she won

For somebody who argued against my reading of you as having your opinion of Czech athletes coloured by patriotism, you don't half make those dots easy to join

Nevertheless, congrats to her, it's been on the cards for a while, and she's generally been stronger than Soukalová all season. We're running out of athletes for the "best athlete on the World Cup without a victory" game now

 

[Kokoso]

For somebody who argued against my reading of you as having your opinion of Czech athletes coloured by patriotism, you don't half make those dots easy to join

Nevertheless, congrats to her, it's been on the cards for a while, and she's generally been stronger than Soukalová all season. We're running out of athletes for the "best athlete on the World Cup without a victory" game now

Why exactly is it patriotic? Because I'm glad for her to win?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Why exactly is it patriotic? Because I'm glad for her to win?

The way you've worded it, "for Czech fans it was a great day" but "it was a sad day" because the TV pictures didn't follow her (which I agree was a bit foolish, they often miss the first half of an athlete's race when there are a number of strong athletes on course, but once she'd got halfway round it was clear she was a major contender for the win). You used the nationality word three times in a four line post there. You know as well as anybody that you don't have to follow people from your home country, there may be some Czech fans who couldn't care less that Vitková won, because they wanted Wierer, or Mäkäräinen, or Fuyuko Suzuki to win. If you'd said you were happy because you like her, it doesn't carry the same tone. It may just be an accident of using a second (third?) language, but your first sentence seemed like it was accusatory, like "you should have been talking about Vitková's win, but you aren't because she's Czech". I was out all evening yesterday, I commented once I was home again, because it was a very impressive and well-deserved win.

Couple that with how in the Clinic thread, you have been quick to question anytime a Czech name is mentioned, but have not been similarly demanding when other names are mentioned (as we've discussed, maybe this is simply because having access to Czech media which most of the rest of us do not have means you are more aware of the backstory of various athletes).

You were quick to accuse me of being wrong when I suspected patriotism as being a reason (not THE reason, A reason) for what I perceived as a double standard when being skeptical of athletes. But unfortunately, your tone, whether it be the language barrier or not, when discussing your home athletes, has made it difficult not to draw that conclusion. Now that you've told me it's not, I'm trying not to read the posts that way, especially since you've told me you don't actually like Soukalová, perhaps the biggest Czech star (although Vitková has been better than her all season, which I think is good because as you know, I really don't like Soukalová, and I'm finding my antipathy growing as well). That undercurrent just still feels like it's there, though.

 

[python]

...everyone of the top 4 favourites have spoken dirctly about their chances atop alp cermis. the most curious is northug's who claimed to tv2.no he can be a full minute faster than in the past. if so, the tour is his...


but belov told expressen.se that sundby is the strongest whilst putting his chances above both halfvarsson's and northug's. only a modest calle thinks he will square off with petter for the 3d.



sources:
http://www.expressen.se/sport/langdskidor/calle-halfvarsson-kan-inte-vinna-tour-de-ski/
http://www.tv2.no/2015/01/09/sport/langrenn/6432088

northugs historic times (hele etappen=the whole stage)
2006/07 (hele etappen)
1. Sergej Sjiriajev
...
30. Petter Northug +1.59
2007/08 (hele etappen)
1. Rene Sommerfeldt
...
25. Petter Northug +1.37
2008/09 (hele etappen)
1. Ivan Babikov
...
13. Petter Northug +56,4
27. Martin Johnsrud Sundby +1.29
2009/10 (hele etappen)
1. Lukas Bauer
...
16. Petter Northug +1.24

2010/11 (hele etappen)
1. Lukas Bauer
...
5. Petter Northug +39,0
2011/12 (hele etappen)
1. Alexander Legkov
...
24. Petter Northug +1.28
2012/13 (kun monsterbakken)
1. Marcus Hellner
...
21. Petter Northug +1.24
27. Calle Halfvarsson +1.48
2013/14 (kun monsterbakken)
1. Ivan Babikov
13. Martin Johnsrud Sundby +32,5
32. Calle Halfvarsson +1.13
36. Petter Northug +1.23

 

[Lupetto]

Northug dead.

Really happy for Tscharnke.

 

[Flamin]

First win for Vitkova in WC. And great one. But no mention here about that. Yeah, she's Czech so that's understandable. For Czech fan today was great day but for Czech TV viewer it was sad day, because German tv almost completely managed to ingore Vitkova But again maybe it was good thing since she won

Yeah, because normally every event is heavily commented on here

Anyway, it seems like Domracheva caught up with Makarainen again.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Impressive finish from Tscharnke, hadn't expected that. Bit of a messy race with Sundby, Cologna and Belov all going down at various points, but a strong finish. Poltoranin extremely close, he's a beast in Classic.

 

[python]

congratulations to german fans of xc skiing. finally a well deserved victory.

glad northug was dropped like a sack of potatos but his theatrics continue unabated...

that belov/cologna fall looked nasty ... i'm not sure why dario was able to rejoin the peloton so much quicker. i just wonder where belov would place had he not crashed.

sundby is objectively the strongest and most consistent in the tour and any eventuality other than him winning overall would be unnatural.

yes, if northug runs tomorrow within few seconds of martin, i will raise hell in the clinic

 

[Bavarianrider]

Lol, Germans with rocket boosters on their skies. Very strange

Also, the very long running time of 46km plus seems strange. When wa sthe last time a 15km race took that long? Conditions didn't look that slow.
Guess that loop was closer to 3km than 2.5km.

 

[neineinei]

Arve and Ingrid Kristiansen voices their opinion on the state of cross country skiing. They are not impressed.

Our dominance in cross country skiing has in our opinion not arisen because of Norway having more natural talents. We've got it because here you can "buy" to legal benefits. Keywords are conditions or simply put money. We have national team with athletes that more or less can live of the sport, they are full-time practitioners. It isn't so for all the competitors. Equipment and support apparatus is also totally superior to most other countries.

Another explanation for Norways dominance in the winter sports can be the massive exposure these sports get in Norwegian media, giving them an hugely inflated status. It gives the impression of remarkable achievements. They are probably the most overrated athletes in existence, after all they are competing in a sport where "almost no others" are participating, seen in a global perspective.

We have almost totally lost interest in cross country skiing, and have barely followed it this season.

http://nrk.no/ytring/langrennsfremtiden-er-truet-1.12140811 (Norw)

 

[Alpe d'Huez]

Changed the title of this thread (as it's no longer 2013!).

Happy skiing everyone!

 

[TomasC]

Yeah, because normally every event is heavily commented on here

Anyway, it seems like Domracheva caught up with Makarainen again.

I think it's more a case of Makarainen going uncharacteristically not-so-crazily fast as usual. Those behing her in terms of course times were actually not far behind (Laukkanen 10s, MDH 20s and Vitkova was even faster).
Anyway - Veronika's win is easily the best day of the season for me!