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Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Re:

Kokoso said:
Lol, I think Soukalova will never, ever again foget her pole :) Today it cost her victory. When she finally beat Makärainen on ski, she loses the race by forgetting her pole. I must say that it's something rather likeable.
She seems to be a bit clumsy/unlucky at times. It's only adding to her charm, I agree.
Very nice race either way, so close in the top 4! Can't wait for the pursuit :)
 
Sep 25, 2009
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Re: Re:

Ustiugov has been the Weng of men's WC this year. No win, but very consistent and agonizingly close. A fall in the Davos sprint, after dominating the qualifications, q's and semis. Breaks a pole in Lenzerheide, still gets 2nd, pushing Pellegrino all the way, 2nd to Iversen in Oberstdorf after making a mistake in the approach to the finish, 4th in the Lenzerheide pursuit (loses 3rd to Krogh by millimeters), 4th again today and loses 3rd by 1.5 seconds and perhaps a crucial 5 second bonus. They will both win races this year. No doubt.
an astute observation and an accurate recount. i'd still give pellegrino and iversen their sprint wins despite the objective circumstances hampering ustiugov in those specific races. pelle smartly skating poleless downhill to gain the finish momentum and iversen having shown more ski control in the critical last turn to the finish...all elements of racing that serhey is learning very fast.

decided to add after some reflecting: if ustiugov climbs the alpe within 30 seconds of the fastest climber, i will be willing to consider he has one of the biggest engines in the history of the sport. and yes, i do know a thing or 2 about the 'unspoken'.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Cance > TheRest said:
jens_attacks said:
Beats all norwegians girls finally
Loses to diggins

Je suis heidi.
You should make a meme with that ! :D
That's it. Heidi Weng is cursed. I'm convinced of it :(

Kokoso said:
When she finally beat Makärainen on ski, she loses the race by forgetting her pole. I must say that it's something rather likeable.
Yes, I liked it too. It's also the kind of thing that always tended to happen to Franzi Hildebrand, so for her to be the one that profits from it is unexpected. And doubly enjoyable for me, of course, because it meant Soukalová didn't win. Especially given Martin Fourcade basically got a huge free bonus added on to his lead in the World Cup with Schempp and Bjørndalen both sick.
I remember Hildebrand having such problem maybe once I think... Soukalova twice only this year (I'm not sure if first time she lost victory because of that) and last few times too, don't know other athlete, so if it's Hildebrand vs. Soukalova, it's definitely expected :) I wasn't happy for Hildebrand, because Soukalova visibily gave it everything and she deserved the win...and Hildebrand doesn't struck me very likeable. When somebody loses win repeatedly because of such thing, I have to feel sorry for her.
You had to be very happy with brothers and Emil yesterday ;)
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Cance > TheRest said:
Kokoso said:
Lol, I think Soukalova will never, ever again foget her pole :) Today it cost her victory. When she finally beat Makärainen on ski, she loses the race by forgetting her pole. I must say that it's something rather likeable.
She seems to be a bit clumsy/unlucky at times. It's only adding to her charm, I agree.
Very nice race either way, so close in the top 4! Can't wait for the pursuit :)
Or scatterbrained, or maybe both.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Cance > TheRest said:
jens_attacks said:
Beats all norwegians girls finally
Loses to diggins

Je suis heidi.
You should make a meme with that ! :D
That's it. Heidi Weng is cursed. I'm convinced of it :(

Kokoso said:
When she finally beat Makärainen on ski, she loses the race by forgetting her pole. I must say that it's something rather likeable.
Yes, I liked it too. It's also the kind of thing that always tended to happen to Franzi Hildebrand, so for her to be the one that profits from it is unexpected. And doubly enjoyable for me, of course, because it meant Soukalová didn't win. Especially given Martin Fourcade basically got a huge free bonus added on to his lead in the World Cup with Schempp and Bjørndalen both sick.
I remember Hildebrand having such problem maybe once I think... Soukalova twice only this year (I'm not sure if first time she lost victory because of that) and last few times too, don't know other athlete, so if it's Hildebrand vs. Soukalova, it's definitely expected :) I wasn't happy for Hildebrand, because Soukalova visibily gave it everything and she deserved the win...and Hildebrand doesn't struck me very likeable. When somebody loses win repeatedly because of such thing, I have to feel sorry for her.
You had to be very happy with brothers and Emil yesterday ;)
Franzi's had some high profile ones though, like the broken ski pole in the World Champs Mass Start that cost her a medal last season, or the cross-fire she didn't realise that dropped her from 2nd to 50-somethingth in the Nové Město pursuit. And because she'd had something like 20 top 10s without a podium when she finally got one last year (5th in total score with only one podium), there is a sense of relief that she's finally getting to put together the results she deserves, since she's very much the workhorse of the German team, consistently scoring results while the attention goes to the younger and more dynamic Dahlmeier and Preuß. And since she's always seemed to be on the edges of succeeding and then having it taken away at the last (finally being the best at NMNM in the sprint when her teammate edged her out from the late pot, missing out on that maiden World Cup podium by being outsprinted by Mäkäräinen at Antholz), she's not somebody who usually lucks out like that and gets the 'fortunate' race win due to Soukalová's mishap. I don't think she's necessarily unlikable, more that she's not especially interesting as a character compared to many others at the front. Soukalová has won more than enough over the years and, as you've pointed out, got a bit full of her own self-importance after breaking through. I'm afraid that I can't see what other people like so much about her, I find her annoying and self-absorbed, and like with the singing press conferences at Khanty-Mansiysk find her affected shyness to be insincere.

As far as the men's race goes, the problem is I don't like Svendsen or Johannes Bø either. Tarjei I quite like, but if Johannes was as successful as Fourcade is, he'd be ten times as unbearable.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Because I follow biathlon quite a few years know I can see how approach of cameras or direction towards czech biathletes changed (and I hope nobody reproach me this time because of that). When Slesinger was silver and bronze in Anetrselva back in 2007, you'd almost never see him in tv, maybe not even in the finish, which was quite sad. Now they are on screen lot of time, even junior Václavík yesterday, what was very suprising for me. It seems to me that German direction cares about Czech more than others.

Anyway, talking about Slesinger, he is definitely one of the unlucky athletes. Exceptional talent, all career haunted by health problems. And most likeabyle of Czech biathletes, for me. Really humble, clever and funny the way I like :) Not that rambunctious one, or how to express that.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Kokoso said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Cance > TheRest said:
jens_attacks said:
Beats all norwegians girls finally
Loses to diggins

Je suis heidi.
You should make a meme with that ! :D
That's it. Heidi Weng is cursed. I'm convinced of it :(

Kokoso said:
When she finally beat Makärainen on ski, she loses the race by forgetting her pole. I must say that it's something rather likeable.
Yes, I liked it too. It's also the kind of thing that always tended to happen to Franzi Hildebrand, so for her to be the one that profits from it is unexpected. And doubly enjoyable for me, of course, because it meant Soukalová didn't win. Especially given Martin Fourcade basically got a huge free bonus added on to his lead in the World Cup with Schempp and Bjørndalen both sick.
I remember Hildebrand having such problem maybe once I think... Soukalova twice only this year (I'm not sure if first time she lost victory because of that) and last few times too, don't know other athlete, so if it's Hildebrand vs. Soukalova, it's definitely expected :) I wasn't happy for Hildebrand, because Soukalova visibily gave it everything and she deserved the win...and Hildebrand doesn't struck me very likeable. When somebody loses win repeatedly because of such thing, I have to feel sorry for her.
You had to be very happy with brothers and Emil yesterday ;)
Franzi's had some high profile ones though, like the broken ski pole in the World Champs Mass Start that cost her a medal last season, or the cross-fire she didn't realise that dropped her from 2nd to 50-somethingth in the Nové Město pursuit. And because she'd had something like 20 top 10s without a podium when she finally got one last year (5th in total score with only one podium), there is a sense of relief that she's finally getting to put together the results she deserves, since she's very much the workhorse of the German team, consistently scoring results while the attention goes to the younger and more dynamic Dahlmeier and Preuß. And since she's always seemed to be on the edges of succeeding and then having it taken away at the last (finally being the best at NMNM in the sprint when her teammate edged her out from the late pot, missing out on that maiden World Cup podium by being outsprinted by Mäkäräinen at Antholz), she's not somebody who usually lucks out like that and gets the 'fortunate' race win due to Soukalová's mishap. I don't think she's necessarily unlikable, more that she's not especially interesting as a character compared to many others at the front. Soukalová has won more than enough over the years and, as you've pointed out, got a bit full of her own self-importance after breaking through. I'm afraid that I can't see what other people like so much about her, I find her annoying and self-absorbed, and like with the singing press conferences at Khanty-Mansiysk find her affected shyness to be insincere.

As far as the men's race goes, the problem is I don't like Svendsen or Johannes Bø either. Tarjei I quite like, but if Johannes was as successful as Fourcade is, he'd be ten times as unbearable.
Yes, you've depicted Soukalova the way I percept her too and little bit shalow in addition, maybe. Girl who knows she's pretty and people adore her (which is true, she has lot of men's attention but lot of hate too, as it used to be with such characters). But I have to give her credit because she seems to know that and at least tries to look humble and I think others from Czech team seem to truly like her - that's little confusing :) Affected shyness...that's exactly what men like. And that could be annoying for some, especially for some women.
As for Hildebrand, when you look at her results last season 5th place overall looks miraculous and not exactly what I'd call well deserved. I don't find to be beaten in sprint fair and square to be especially unlucky. Broken ski pole in WC mass start hurts, but than when you look at her results, she had only single podium result in all her career and that was that Nove Mesto sprint! So for her not to take medal doesn't seem unfair, rather fair to Preuss and Semerenko who might deserve medal more. And this year Hildebrand is doing well, she already has win and podiums, same as Soukalova.
 
Franzi in individual races 2014-15:
Östersund: 6th, 9th, 10th
Hochfilzen: 5th, 8th
Pokljuka: 21st, 13th, 7th
Oberhof: 26th, 11th
Ruhpolding: 11th, 14th
Antholz: 6th, 4th
Nove Mesto: 2nd, 50th (15th on track, but penalties assessed for not realising the crossfire and skiing too few penalty loops)
Oslo: 8th, 26th
Kontiolahti: 10th, 6th, 10th, 6th
Khanty-Mansiysk: 22nd, 11th, 9th

On the scope of it, "undeserved" is perhaps a bit strong. You could argue that the points system doesn't weight wins and podiums enough so that it's possible to score so highly in the World Cup with so few podiums, but the only race she finished outside the top 30 of all season was one where she cross-fired and didn't realise it; there's 15 top 10s in there, including every race at the World Championships; that's some impressive consistency. Certainly, however, her overall World Cup position was a bit inflated as well by the inconsistency of others and some other circumstances (Dahlmeier missing several events due to injury, Dorin Habert starting the World Cup late because of childbirth).

As for Soukalová and "affected shyness" being something that is liked, the very point of "affected" shyness is that it's affected, i.e. put-on, not genuine. Personally I'd stop short of suggesting she's shallow. I do, however, think her public persona is very deliberately constructed, which makes her seem insincere.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Wtf. director!!! Realy disgrace. They are showing clear winner Eder all the time while not showing close fight for other podium places and not even showing sprint for second. I have no words.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Franzi in individual races 2014-15:
Östersund: 6th, 9th, 10th
Hochfilzen: 5th, 8th
Pokljuka: 21st, 13th, 7th
Oberhof: 26th, 11th
Ruhpolding: 11th, 14th
Antholz: 6th, 4th
Nove Mesto: 2nd, 50th (15th on track, but penalties assessed for not realising the crossfire and skiing too few penalty loops)
Oslo: 8th, 26th
Kontiolahti: 10th, 6th, 10th, 6th
Khanty-Mansiysk: 22nd, 11th, 9th

On the scope of it, "undeserved" is perhaps a bit strong. You could argue that the points system doesn't weight wins and podiums enough so that it's possible to score so highly in the World Cup with so few podiums, but the only race she finished outside the top 30 of all season was one where she cross-fired and didn't realise it; there's 15 top 10s in there, including every race at the World Championships; that's some impressive consistency. Certainly, however, her overall World Cup position was a bit inflated as well by the inconsistency of others and some other circumstances (Dahlmeier missing several events due to injury, Dorin Habert starting the World Cup late because of childbirth).

As for Soukalová and "affected shyness" being something that is liked, the very point of "affected" shyness is that it's affected, i.e. put-on, not genuine. Personally I'd stop short of suggesting she's shallow. I do, however, think her public persona is very deliberately constructed, which makes her seem insincere.
Number of not very good results, sole podium result, only twice first five = fifth overall is rather flattering, agreed. One can call her lucky enough for this result. Myabe her pole broke becuase balance had to be maintained. Anyway, this season she's shining, since start of the season there is nothing unlucky about her for sure.
Affected doesn't mean not genuin, or better say, that someone is affected doesn't mean it isn't genuine. The right word might than be forced, or artificial... Anyway, I don't think she's necessarily pretending it, it's just her. Some people are like that.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Re: Re:

BullsFan22 said:
Kokoso said:
Wtf. director!!! Realy disgrace. They are showing clear winner Eder all the time while not showing close fight for other podium places and not even showing sprint for second. I have no words.
We've seen enough of Fourcade!! LMFAO
Very funny. But not enough Šlesinger.

Edit: according Michael Greis Fourcade closed Šlesinger in finish. At the beginnig of finish straight Šlesinger went on the level with Fourcade. Would really like to see it.
 
Re: Re:

Libertine Seguros said:
Kokoso said:
Libertine Seguros said:
Cance > TheRest said:
jens_attacks said:
Beats all norwegians girls finally
Loses to diggins

Je suis heidi.
You should make a meme with that ! :D
That's it. Heidi Weng is cursed. I'm convinced of it :(

Kokoso said:
When she finally beat Makärainen on ski, she loses the race by forgetting her pole. I must say that it's something rather likeable.
Yes, I liked it too. It's also the kind of thing that always tended to happen to Franzi Hildebrand, so for her to be the one that profits from it is unexpected. And doubly enjoyable for me, of course, because it meant Soukalová didn't win. Especially given Martin Fourcade basically got a huge free bonus added on to his lead in the World Cup with Schempp and Bjørndalen both sick.
I remember Hildebrand having such problem maybe once I think... Soukalova twice only this year (I'm not sure if first time she lost victory because of that) and last few times too, don't know other athlete, so if it's Hildebrand vs. Soukalova, it's definitely expected :) I wasn't happy for Hildebrand, because Soukalova visibily gave it everything and she deserved the win...and Hildebrand doesn't struck me very likeable. When somebody loses win repeatedly because of such thing, I have to feel sorry for her.
You had to be very happy with brothers and Emil yesterday ;)
Franzi's had some high profile ones though, like the broken ski pole in the World Champs Mass Start that cost her a medal last season, or the cross-fire she didn't realise that dropped her from 2nd to 50-somethingth in the Nové Město pursuit. And because she'd had something like 20 top 10s without a podium when she finally got one last year (5th in total score with only one podium), there is a sense of relief that she's finally getting to put together the results she deserves, since she's very much the workhorse of the German team, consistently scoring results while the attention goes to the younger and more dynamic Dahlmeier and Preuß. And since she's always seemed to be on the edges of succeeding and then having it taken away at the last (finally being the best at NMNM in the sprint when her teammate edged her out from the late pot, missing out on that maiden World Cup podium by being outsprinted by Mäkäräinen at Antholz), she's not somebody who usually lucks out like that and gets the 'fortunate' race win due to Soukalová's mishap. I don't think she's necessarily unlikable, more that she's not especially interesting as a character compared to many others at the front. Soukalová has won more than enough over the years and, as you've pointed out, got a bit full of her own self-importance after breaking through. I'm afraid that I can't see what other people like so much about her, I find her annoying and self-absorbed, and like with the singing press conferences at Khanty-Mansiysk find her affected shyness to be insincere.

As far as the men's race goes, the problem is I don't like Svendsen or Johannes Bø either. Tarjei I quite like, but if Johannes was as successful as Fourcade is, he'd be ten times as unbearable.
That's funny. I feel like Johannes and Svendsen is ten times more bearable than Fourcade, because they are atleast sincere with their arrogance. Fourcade tries to hide it all the time, by taking on the 'humble champion'-attitude towards the press. I really don't like that, and if Johannes is ever going to be as succesful as Fourcade, I will enjoy every moment of it.
That is also one of the reasons I like Northug a big deal. Totally arrogant jerk, but he doesn't hide it.
 
Re: Re:

Kokoso said:
Affected doesn't mean not genuin, or better say, that someone is affected doesn't mean it isn't genuine. The right word might than be forced, or artificial... Anyway, I don't think she's necessarily pretending it, it's just her. Some people are like that.
I very much meant "affected" as in put-on, though. Artificial I think is a good word for it. The most obvious example of this affected shyness is the Khanty press conference back in 2013 when she won the sprint, and there was a joke about her singing, and then it was suggested that she should sing a bit in the press conference, and she said no, it was embarrassing, she couldn't, then the other girls said she should, and she was suddenly with barely a pause, all "ok then" - her reluctance was so transparently fake that it was cringeworthy.

She always strikes me as being very stage-managed (even if it's all managed by her herself rather than being manufactured). I think you're right with the use of the word "forced". That's exactly the vibe I get from her. She's trying to present herself a certain way, and is keen to ensure that she comes across that way at all times.
 
Re: Re:

Cance > TheRest said:
That's funny. I feel like Johannes and Svendsen is ten times more bearable than Fourcade, because they are atleast sincere with their arrogance. Fourcade tries to hide it all the time, by taking on the 'humble champion'-attitude towards the press. I really don't like that, and if Johannes is ever going to be as succesful as Fourcade, I will enjoy every moment of it.
That is also one of the reasons I like Northug a big deal. Totally arrogant jerk, but he doesn't hide it.
The guy with the biggest self-absorbed jerk in cycling in their avatar is a fan of the biggest self-absorbed jerk in skiing too. Figures.

You can't even make the excuse of liking Northug because of his racing like you can with Sagan.
 

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