Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

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Stupak finished faster than Svahn, she was just too far back. Just like Val Müstair, she left it a wee bit too late, I think had she placed herself a place better at the top of the final climb before the long downhill she could have even beaten Svahn, just my opinion though.

Stupak already was dropped before though, so I guess she was at her limit on the climb, and unable to move up? Unlike Klaebo, who clearly lost due to bad positioning today.
 
Stupak already was dropped before though, so I guess she was at her limit on the climb, and unable to move up? Unlike Klaebo, who clearly lost due to bad positioning today.

Did Klaebo go down at any point. It's near impossible to pick out Russians Vs Norwegians on far away shots and I know Holund went off in the Bolshunov but in the Young crash looked like another Norwegian went down and was assuming that must have been Klaebo when he was so far back.

Edit - Actually just read it was Valnes who went down in the Young crash.
 
Stupak already was dropped before though, so I guess she was at her limit on the climb, and unable to move up? Unlike Klaebo, who clearly lost due to bad positioning today.

Maybe, but she went from 5th to 2nd and was closing quickly on Svahn. I think had they skied yesterday’s route today Johaug would have been able to escape. It wasn’t tough enough for her and easy enough for the others. I don’t understand why they don’t ski the entire killer hill in Falun anymore?
 
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Svahn is slowly turning into a female Kläbo. She wins every sprint and if she is in a lead group of a (mass-start) distance race, she wins that one too.
 
That was a rather dodgy maneuver she did on Weng though. Perhaps even more dodgy than Mäki’s in the Lahti relay last week, and again no jury decision, no verbal warning or a yellow. What is an obstruction and what isn’t?? FIS really need to get their act together. Weng said that she held herself back from ‘doing a Bolshunov.’ Would have been very interesting to see what would transpire if she didn’t hold back.
 
Pleasently surprised by Ustiugov today, he could still be a factor in a few races in the World Championships. Svensson might actually challenge Klaebo and Valnes in Oberstdorf, but I can't see him beating them.

Bolshunov with a great win on Saturday although Klaebo was kind of dumb.
 
Pleasently surprised by Ustiugov today, he could still be a factor in a few races in the World Championships. Svensson might actually challenge Klaebo and Valnes in Oberstdorf, but I can't see him beating them.

Bolshunov with a great win on Saturday although Klaebo was kind of dumb.

If Ustiugov is in shape for World’s, I wonder which races he’ll do. Sprint, Team Sprint, 15km and relay?
 
If Ustiugov is in shape for World’s, I wonder which races he’ll do. Sprint, Team Sprint, 15km and relay?

That sure looks like a perfect schedule for him. However, if he's on form, then I don't see why Bolshunov would run the Sprint, that would make at least 4 guys (Klaebo, Valnes, Svensson and Ustiugov) significantly better than him already in the race, with Retivykh, Iversen, Chanavat at about his level. The chance for a medal is extremely unlikely for him there, with the only hope lying in going through the bottom half of the draw and hoping for some misfortunes in the final.

On the other hand, on form Ustiugov and Bolshunov would really give Norway a run for their money in the Team Sprint. It will be freestyle and with it comes a very difficult job of choosing the right partner for Klaebo. No way can Valnes keep up with either of them and Iversen kinda lost his sprint lately. They might even try to go with one of Golberg or Roethe to counter the Russians.

Considering the relay, now it looks like Semikov, Yakimushkin, Bolshunov, Ustiugov squad would be optimal, but a lot can change there (apart from Semikov in the first leg), both in order and in the lineup.

In the end we come to the 15km individual, that is of course Sergei's strongest discipline and the biggest hope for a gold medal. So you're probably right about him skipping the skiathlon to save as much energy for the 15k.

But if he performs well in the Championships and wins a couple of medals, would you really leave him out of the 50km race? I know it's classics, but apart from Bolshunov he doesn't really trail anyone in the Russian team in that technique as well. He has nothing to save himself for in the World Cup, why not give him a go? Worst case scenario he abandons the race.
 
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That sure looks like a perfect schedule for him. However, if he's on form, then I don't see why Bolshunov would run the Sprint, that would make at least 4 guys (Klaebo, Valnes, Svensson and Ustiugov) significantly better than him already in the race, with Retivykh, Iversen, Chanavat at about his level. The chance for a medal is extremely unlikely for him there, with the only hope lying in going through the bottom half of the draw and hoping for some misfortunes in the final.

On the other hand, on form Ustiugov and Bolshunov would really give Norway a run for their money in the Team Sprint. It will be freestyle and with it comes a very difficult job of choosing the right partner for Klaebo. No way can Valnes keep up with either of them and Iversen kinda lost his sprint lately. They might even try to go with one of Golberg or Roethe to counter the Russians.

Considering the relay, now it looks like Semikov, Yakimushkin, Bolshunov, Ustiugov squad would be optimal, but a lot can change there (apart from Semikov in the first leg), both in order and in the lineup.

In the end we come to the 15km individual, that is of course Sergei's strongest discipline and the biggest hope for a gold medal. So you're probably right about him skipping the skiathlon to save as much energy for the 15k.

But if he performs well in the Championships and wins a couple of medals, would you really leave him out of the 50km race? I know it's classics, but apart from Bolshunov he doesn't really trail anyone in the Russian team in that technique as well. He has nothing to save himself for in the World Cup, why not give him a go? Worst case scenario he abandons the race.

Yeah it will depend on how the others get on, how their shape is. I think the entire world’s team will be in Nove Mesto, and that’s where the coaches will see who is where. That’s a good quartet, but perhaps even Belov could do the first leg of the relay, even Chervotkin could ski that, and Poroshkin. Where will Bolshunov ski? The 2nd leg to try and break the race open? The 3rd leg to break it open then or to consolidate the lead? Spitsov is a candidate for the 3rd leg, likewise Melnichenko, though he’s battling a back problem and who knows how he’ll be in Oberstdorf. Yakimushkin is a better skater so that’s where he’ll likely be, if he’s selected. That said he’s been very good in classic races as well, and skied the 2nd leg in Lahti, easily staying and even trying to break Iversen.
 
Diggins gets the Randall treatment today. Blatantly cut off Sundling in the semi, not even a warning but that was way worse than Lampič's non-DQ in Lenzerheide and I can't see why Markus Grate got a relegation and Diggins didn't even get a verbal warning. Then gets through in a lucky loser, and somehow squeezes through for a podium.
 
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Diggins gets the Randall treatment today. Blatantly cut off Sundling in the semi, not even a warning but that was way worse than Lampič's non-DQ in Lenzerheide and I can't see why Markus Grate got a relegation and Diggins didn't even get a verbal warning. Then gets through in a lucky loser, and somehow squeezes through for a podium.

Lampič did nothing wrong in Lenzerheide, it was a clean pass on Fähndrich, she didn’t touch her skis or body at all. Had Lampič been DQ’d it would have been a travesty. How come Jauhojärvi didn’t get DQ’d for obstructing Tscharnke, causing the German to fall on that 2nd to last corner before the backstraight? I agree about Grate, I thought they’d relegate Novak but was surprised to see Grate get a RAL next to his name. I think FIS is trying to market Diggins and the Americans, it all started with Jeff Ellis, Randall’s husband, who was a press attaché for FIS for years, until Randall retired. Not only the instances that you mention Libertine, but also cut off Falk on that final turn into the finish. She’s been lucky all season, people choosing not to race, others sick or injured at different stages of the season, people crashing, she not getting a warning or yellow or anything....I hope that run of luck ends in Oberstdorf.

Svensson turning out to be a quiet assassin the last month. Doing absolutely nothing, staying safe and waiting for openings. I don’t get Ustiugov’s tactics. On an easy course like this, it’s impossible to get any sort of gap. Why go all out? He’s not in the sort of shape that can allow him to dominate. He’s still got an excellent final sprint, why not save that? I think he could have won this. Retivykh, who qualified in 26th bided his time in each heat and was rewarded with 2nd.
 
This round of the FIS is absolutely pointless. A sprint and team sprint, half the competitors not even turning up cos the World's coming up. If it didn't exist, no one would be worse off here
They needed some more sprint events so they don't have more than 3% of races being considered 'long' and can balance the World Cup overall between out and out sprinters and distance racers slightly more versatile sprinters.
 
This round of the FIS is absolutely pointless. A sprint and team sprint, half the competitors not even turning up cos the World's coming up. If it didn't exist, no one would be worse off here

They are just trying to cram in as many sprints as possible into the calendar each season, thinking it will save the sport. That’s why Klæbo has racked up so many wins, there’s so many sprints each season. Seems like 99% of the races are sprints and 15kms. Where are skiathlons? Where are the 5/10 km races? Where are 30km individual star races? Where’s the Cortina to Toblach pursuit at the TDS? This season seemed perfect for that, with so much snow in the Alps, particularly the Cortina and Toblach/Dobbiacco areas.
 
The sprinterfication is not a new thing

pre Tour de Ski

2003 - 13 distance races / 8 sprints
2004 - 17 distance races / 8 sprints
2005 - 12 distance races / 8 sprints
2006 - 15 distance races / 9 sprints

This season after Lillehammer was cancelled

16 distance races /10 sprints

So while it got slightly worse, it's not really hugely different to how it was 15+ years ago in terms of distance/sprint race balance.

The problem to me is more in the fascination with mini-tours, pursuits and having mostly 1 distance for a distance race.
 
Would be worth adding in the stats for regular relays vs. team sprints as well as I think they've by and large been 50-50 lately since the relay was marginalised by the loss of a few major players' competitive standing, and the Team Sprint has taken off as an alternative to having actual depth of competition because they can have multiple entrants per nation to pad the startlist rather than the somewhat anæmic startlists we've seen in relays in recent years.

Of your examples, I think 2004 is about the right balance ratio-wise, because it allows a good spread of different distances and enough sprints to keep variety without turning the calendar into the repetitious mess it has been in recent years. While this year isn't necessarily so bad in and of itself, there have been a few years that have shown significant trend away from distance and toward sprints. 2013-4 springs to mind as especially bad, that was 11 sprints vs. 15 distance races, 9 of which were 10/5 or 15/10, and two others were sub-10km Tour de Ski stages (a prologue and the Alpe Cermis). The women had 3 15km races and a single, solitary 30km to give the distance specialists. 2018-19 had 12 sprints vs. 17 distance races, all but 3 of which were 15/10 (and one of those three was the Alpe). 2015-6 was overlong in terms of number of stages because of the Canadian Tour as it was a non-Worlds non-Olympics season, but that gave us 33 races of which 12 were sprints (there were 3 in the Canadian Tour), a better balance in terms of numbers but a huge number of sprint events on the surface (however they only had one Team Sprint last year as opposed to the usual two with an even split between normal relays and Team Sprints). Had the North American section of the calendar not been cancelled during the pandemic last season there would have been FOURTEEN sprints last season. Everything else was 15/10 or less, except two skiathlons, the Holmenkollen 50 and the Meråker pursuit.

I think the issue this season has also been exacerbated by some particularly poor placement of events on the calendar. In December you had a run of events which ran Sprint - 15/10 - Sprint - Team Sprint - Sprint, and at the moment we're halfway through a run of events which goes Sprint - Sprint - Team Sprint - Sprint, while the cancellation of Lillehammer has left us with only three events on the World Cup calendar all season that are not either sprints or 15/10, one of which, again, is the Alpe.

And yes, the only having 1 distance for a distance race (and that not being especially long either) is particularly bad as it removes the variety from the section of the calendar that can actually offer variety, whereas the sprints may give more immediate bursts of action but because they are all so short they largely feature the same kind of action, with the technique the main source of differentiation. If FIS are moving towards more sprint events because their concern is that distance is too predictable, then reducing the variety in the formats of distance racing is completely counterintuitive. And it only perpetuates the main problem that there's little reason to want to be a distance specialist, or there's little reason to persevere on the World Cup if you are a pure distance specialist. Homogenising all of the non-sprint races to be 15/10s and just varying whether they're mass start or individual start with the former being preferred will only continue the status quo, especially among the women where often mass start races follow one of two formats: if the course is challenging, Johaug just skis away from everybody at the start and stays away, and if it isn't then the sprinters stay in the pack and then win, further reducing the chances for a non-sprinter to bother.
 
Well yes, but they originally DQed her, then reinstated her afterwards. What exactly caused the jury to think that deserved relegation originally, I've no idea.

I know. I think because it was a tight corner, Lampič passed her in that tight corner and she fell right after that. At first glance they probably thought ‘oh there was definitely contact’ and also because of a Swiss skier. I was glad they protested that DQ and she was reinstated, yet they still gave her a written reprimand, which I didn’t understand. There was no reason for that either.
 
I'm not as against sprints as some here but I feel any round (unless it's something particular like the Dresden thing which I consider as a novelty event like the World Team challenge in biathlon) that is just sprints is pointless. Like if this was a sprint today and a pursuit tomorrow or even something different like a team sprint followed by a relay pursuit (so 2 sprinters and then 2 long distance guys) then I'd be ok with it. A sprint and then a team sprint means the round is there for like 20-30 athletes.
 
yeah, 15k mass-starts blow. it's like a skiing version of the Vuelta murito stages

why anyone thinks it's good TV I have no idea

I suppose to give more skiers a chance. In the Falun mass start the top 30 was separated by 23.6 seconds. In the individual in Falun it was 2:21 from Bolshunov who won to Halfvarsson who was 30th. Granted the course for the skate race was tougher, the lap longer with more hills. The mass start have more women a chance than an individual could. That’ll always give FIS the impetus to keep that format, even though a lot of people don’t like it, including me. I think only the skiathlon races should mass starts, other distance races should be individual stars. A 30km individual needs to come back ASAP. The last time a 30km individual was skied was in Davos, December 2016.