Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[meat puppet]

Compared to Roponen, Muhlegg used to look efficient. Skis wide open, no kick and no mentionable upper body force generation either, bad technique skaters from the 90s come to mind.

She must have done something right though. Boasted a career peak vo2max of about 70ml/kg/min during the autumn.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I'm not a fan either, but who are you speaking for exactly?

This is more directed at the commentary, and the use of the royal we is perhaps excessive, but their obsession with all things American, and Come On Jess in particular, has been discussed many a time here, largely with me and BullsFan as others, especially those with access to other broadcasts, don't seem as bothered. However, I've seen some ridicule from other parties of her histrionics et cetera not related to Winterton and Dixon's favouritism (other particular biases of theirs have come in for some stick too!) - and mentioning her digging out the shorts (no pun intended) harks back to Seefeld, when there was a lot of criticism of her fashion choice back then. However, most of the people I talk to about the sport outside of this forum - which may not be a representative sample admittedly - seem to corroborate my suspicion that the policy of relentless cheerleading for Diggins is pretty divisive in its results when it comes to inciting people to cheer for her.

I'm a pretty extreme case in that I'm not particularly well-disposed to her even without the commentary, so I do need to be more wary of projecting my level of frustrations onto others for whom it's an annoyance but not as distracting or unprofessional as I find it, but a lot of the time I want her out of contention for races early not because of anything she has done or is doing, but just so they'll shut the hell up about her and actually commentate on the race.

 

[Bubba]

It looked ok considering the warm temperatures, but why not move it down to say 11:15 and have be in even better shape?

I don't know..
Because the course was decent and it was already scheduled for 13.15, so better for the many nations that actually show it on TV to keep it on schedule if possible?
I can't speak for everyone else, but I tend to miss more races that are held early in the morning than those with later starting times.

Had the course not been decent I could understand what you're saying, but we've seen much worse than today on many occasions and today the conditions
wasn't a factor in anything judging by that result list (Kalla and Haga like firm courses and did well for instance).

I just don't see the problem (today)

A question FIS need to ask itself is if late febraury/early march is a wise time in the calendar for the world championships when the competitions are often held in places where lack of snow/warmth can be an issue.
Maybe move it forward a month?

 

[zarnack]

I find Diggins quite likable, but I also haven't watched Eurosport for years. For me the more annoying thing about Eurosport feed was their unprofessionalism in the sense of understanding the dynamics of the race rather than outright favoritism. But then again you could consider "favoritism" as part of lacking the depth. Professional commentator would understand the dynamics of the race and wouldn't need to resort to favoritism.

 

[Bubba]

This is more directed at the commentary, and the use of the royal we is perhaps excessive, but their obsession with all things American, and Come On Jess in particular, has been discussed many a time here, largely with me and BullsFan as others, especially those with access to other broadcasts, don't seem as bothered. However, I've seen some ridicule from other parties of her histrionics et cetera not related to Winterton and Dixon's favouritism (other particular biases of theirs have come in for some stick too!) - and mentioning her digging out the shorts (no pun intended) harks back to Seefeld, when there was a lot of criticism of her fashion choice back then. However, most of the people I talk to about the sport outside of this forum - which may not be a representative sample admittedly - seem to corroborate my suspicion that the policy of relentless cheerleading for Diggins is pretty divisive in its results when it comes to inciting people to cheer for her.

I'm a pretty extreme case in that I'm not particularly well-disposed to her even without the commentary, so I do need to be more wary of projecting my level of frustrations onto others for whom it's an annoyance but not as distracting or unprofessional as I find it, but a lot of the time I want her out of contention for races early not because of anything she has done or is doing, but just so they'll shut the hell up about her and actually commentate on the race.

Good that you acknowledge it's not Diggins' fault that the UK Eurosport commentators are bad.
I've been forced to listen to them from time to time over the years when travelling, and I agree they are annoying.
As to Diggins, I can see she is divisive being typically american with her outspokeness and confidence and all that.
Personally I like that she's been outspoken on eating disorders and think she is a role model in that regard.
In most things sports I root agains USA, but there are so few nations in various winter sports that I like it when the US and Canada are relevant.

I can't see wearing shorts or not have anything to do with professionality. The french have often competed in t-shirts in the spring in both biathlon and skiing, and even
other nations too at times. If anyone prefer tights to full suit, who cares?

 

[zarnack]

I remember on this forum was discussion about how good biathletes could be among XC skiers. So Baiba Bendika tried it out and ended up 35th today. Looking at biathlon statistics, Bendika's ski speed is rated as -3% as of now. For comparison, Eckhoff is -5%.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I remember on this forum was discussion about how good biathletes could be among XC skiers. So Baiba Bendika tried it out and ended up 35th today. Looking at biathlon statistics, Bendika's ski speed is rated as -3% as of now. For comparison, Eckhoff is -5%.

Baiba's average ski time rank is 23rd for the 2020-21 season, however I think that to demonstrate her 'true' level in form we need to take a bit more into account to fairly rank her.

She's +2,1 from the average of the top 10
+0,7 from the average of the top 30
-2,0 from the median
-2,6 from the average

Ski ranks this season run: 31, 41, 34, 10, 16, 18, 13, 17, 36, 25, 12
Restricting this to just the individual start events for the sake of their greater relevance (the pursuit and mass start can be skewed by what other people are doing, or athletes way down the field because of shooting phoning it in when they won't be passed or can't pass people in front), we get:
31, 34, 10, 18, 13, 17, 25, 12

The two results in the 30s were in December, so we can say that if we excise them as being more subject to bias based on differences in training and approach to the season due to Covid protocols etc, we can say that Baiba in 2021 has been 95/6 = around 15-16th best skier in an average individual start race over either 7,5km or 15km. Unfortunately today is only an isolated data point and we can't get any real info from the qualification race owing to paucity of competition. If we can get some data points on her ski ranks in Nové Město over the next couple of weeks that will give us a better idea as we can get a handle on her form.

 

[Max Rockatansky]

Funny, nordic world championchips in Germany and todays race isnt even shown on german TV. I guess the FIS dogma to change the sport in order to please German TV audience did not turn out all that well.

Because german tv isn't about the sport. It's always about Germans with a hint of sport.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Because german tv isn't about the sport. It's always about Germans with a hint of sport.

Sad but true.

 

[Bavarianrider]

Well seeing the German's results, Schlickenrieder is not really in a position to say something. However, today after the race he said that many top female athletes were too thin and that FIS should Install a minimum BMI. I think he has a point, thought maybe this should be discussed in the doping thread.

 

[BullsFan22]

I remember on this forum was discussion about how good biathletes could be among XC skiers. So Baiba Bendika tried it out and ended up 35th today. Looking at biathlon statistics, Bendika's ski speed is rated as -3% as of now. For comparison, Eckhoff is -5%.

I watched the last couple km’s f har race and she skied well, yes, I know it’s the last two km’s but still. She started bib 87, so by the time she started the course was already broken up and during the hottest part of day. Who knows where she would have ended up with an early number but then again, at these championship races you are only allowed 4 skiers per country unless you have a defending champ, then you get an extra spot, so perhaps she would still be around 35 or so.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Good that you acknowledge it's not Diggins' fault that the UK Eurosport commentators are bad.
I've been forced to listen to them from time to time over the years when travelling, and I agree they are annoying.
As to Diggins, I can see she is divisive being typically american with her outspokeness and confidence and all that.

You might be onto something with that. Part of what made me really dislike Gabriela Soukalová was how false she seemed, like everything was calculated to make her media-friendly and marketable rather than her actually being charismatic. Diggins doesn't come across as false or artificial like Soukalová did, but with the whooping and hollering and the posing and the face permanently locked in a grin and the glitter and everything, Diggins exudes that kind of vibe of forced fun, where it's not enough to have fun, you have to permanently show everybody how much fun you are having, which really grates on me. Like a holiday rep or a theme park attendant at EuroDisney, but less forced obviously. "I'm a fun person to be around!" So while I might not be specifically against her, I'd already find it difficult to warm to her before we get to the sycophants in the commentary box and their relentlessly bludgeoning you with their myopia. Just as so many find Therese Johaug still screaming like it's her first career win with every monotonous finish really grating and that it makes her dominance that little bit more difficult to palate.

But then, part of the problem is they only know anything about a handful of athletes so they have to steer conversation back to those athletes whenever possible. I mean, today during the Junior women's sprint at Obertilliach, as one athlete was coming into the finish, we literally heard the sentence from Patrick Winterton, "Mike, I've been meaning to ask you, we haven't seen much of Ole Einar Bjørndalen this season, why do you suppose that is?"

 

[BullsFan22]

Well seeing the German's results, Schlickenrieder is not really in a position to say something. However, today after the race he said that many top female athletes were too thin and that FIS should Install a minimum BMI. I think he has a point, thought maybe this should be discussed in the doping thread.

Perhaps trying to deflect criticism? I would be surprised if he stays as coach after this season.

 

[BullsFan22]

You might be onto something with that. Part of what made me really dislike Gabriela Soukalová was how false she seemed, like everything was calculated to make her media-friendly and marketable rather than her actually being charismatic. Diggins doesn't come across as false or artificial like Soukalová did, but with the whooping and hollering and the posing and the face permanently locked in a grin and the glitter and everything, Diggins exudes that kind of vibe of forced fun, where it's not enough to have fun, you have to permanently show everybody how much fun you are having, which really grates on me. Like a holiday rep or a theme park attendant at EuroDisney, but less forced obviously. "I'm a fun person to be around!" So while I might not be specifically against her, I'd already find it difficult to warm to her before we get to the sycophants in the commentary box and their relentlessly bludgeoning you with their myopia. Just as so many find Therese Johaug still screaming like it's her first career win with every monotonous finish really grating and that it makes her dominance that little bit more difficult to palate.

But then, part of the problem is they only know anything about a handful of athletes so they have to steer conversation back to those athletes whenever possible. I mean, today during the Junior women's sprint at Obertilliach, as one athlete was coming into the finish, we literally heard the sentence from Patrick Winterton, "Mike, I've been meaning to ask you, we haven't seen much of Ole Einar Bjørndalen this season, why do you suppose that is?"

Diggins ranted against drivers because she felt they got dangerously close to her in Minnesota, as if she owns the road. I think she can be an unpredictable person. That’s where the ‘false’ or ‘artificial’ is. She tries to be all smiles and ‘oh I gave it my all out there and I am so proud of myself for pushing,’ and ‘even though I didn’t ski as well today I am proud of the way I fought and I had fun out there...’. The usual American xc response, especially when trying desperately to cover for subpar performances and hide her frustration. And then the likes of Winterton, Dixon, the US nordic community and her fans always point to bad skis when she doesn’t get onto the podium.

 

[Sciatic]

This is more directed at the commentary, and the use of the royal we is perhaps excessive, but their obsession with all things American, and Come On Jess in particular, has been discussed many a time here, largely with me and BullsFan as others, especially those with access to other broadcasts, don't seem as bothered. However, I've seen some ridicule from other parties of her histrionics et cetera not related to Winterton and Dixon's favouritism (other particular biases of theirs have come in for some stick too!) - and mentioning her digging out the shorts (no pun intended) harks back to Seefeld, when there was a lot of criticism of her fashion choice back then. However, most of the people I talk to about the sport outside of this forum - which may not be a representative sample admittedly - seem to corroborate my suspicion that the policy of relentless cheerleading for Diggins is pretty divisive in its results when it comes to inciting people to cheer for her.

I'm a pretty extreme case in that I'm not particularly well-disposed to her even without the commentary, so I do need to be more wary of projecting my level of frustrations onto others for whom it's an annoyance but not as distracting or unprofessional as I find it, but a lot of the time I want her out of contention for races early not because of anything she has done or is doing, but just so they'll shut the hell up about her and actually commentate on the race.

I’m afraid that if Diggins and Sepp Kuss got married, they probably won’t be inviting you to the wedding

 

[meat puppet]

So, can anyone seriously challenge bolshunov today?

I'm thinking about holund mostly, or perhaps manificat and kruger as well if everything goes their way.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So, can anyone seriously challenge bolshunov today?

I'm thinking about holund mostly, or perhaps manificat and kruger as well if everything goes their way.

Probably only the ones that you mentioned. Some of the early starters like Moch, Poromaa, Lapalus and Schumacher could use their early starting number. Bolshunov is also starting rather early as 22nd, that looks like the right strategy to me.

 

[search]

hard to say what to expect from Manificat after not having raced since January. He said he targets gold today, but on the other hand, today in l'Équipe he also mentioned that he wasn't chosen for the Skiathlon because his training numbers were too poor. It can go either way, I guess.

 

[zarnack]

So the entire Italian team leaves Oberstdorf due to covid infections. Well, a reminder that anything can still happen during the rest of the championship.

 

[DenisMenchov]

So is Granerud, so his WC ends with just one medal (silver in the team mix).

I think Bolshunov is going to destroy lighter guys on the downhill sections today. In fact, since the beginning of the Tour de Ski, those parts of track were always his strongest point. He's maximizing the fact that he's heavier. I doubt it's only the skis, it looks like he worked on his descending a lot during summer.

 

[Bubba]

So, can anyone seriously challenge bolshunov today?

I'm thinking about holund mostly, or perhaps manificat and kruger as well if everything goes their way.

I seriously doubt it unless the russians somehow manage to put Bolshunov on a bad pair of skis.

I would ad Røthe for medalist candidate as he has been marginally better than both Kruger and Holund this season. He didn't look great in the skiathlon though.

 

[Mayomaniac]

So is Granerud, so his WC ends with just one medal (silver in the team mix).

I think Bolshunov is going to destroy lighter guys on the downhill sections today. In fact, since the beginning of the Tour de Ski, those parts of track were always his strongest point. He's maximizing the fact that he's heavier. I doubt it's only the skis, it looks like he worked on his descending a lot during summer.

Yeah, I already noticed that in the Val Münstair pursuit in the Tour de Ski, he mainly gained time on the false flat and downhill sections of the lap.

 

[Bubba]

So is Granerud, so his WC ends with just one medal (silver in the team mix).

I think Bolshunov is going to destroy lighter guys on the downhill sections today. In fact, since the beginning of the Tour de Ski, those parts of track were always his strongest point. He's maximizing the fact that he's heavier. I doubt it's only the skis, it looks like he worked on his descending a lot during summer.

Mhm.. He's become seriously good on the downhills.
Can't remember a single russian with as good downhill technique as the best norwegians for instance, until Bolshunov now. (Maybe I'm forgetting someone)
He might be the best with the added benefit of being heavier than most of his competitors.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Niskanen racing today and not resting for the 50km is a bit of a surprise for me.
Maltsev and Cologna really good at the 2nd time check.
Edit: F*** me, Niskanen 2nd at the first time check.

 

[DenisMenchov]

Bolshunov horrible 3rd lap, same as in Seefeld 2019, he's not going to medal here.