Nordic Skiing/Biathlon Thread

[BullsFan22]

He was suddenly really strong in the Norwegian Roller ski races in the summer of 2024, I had already expected another Vermrulen transformation last season.

Well, today I can understand it. It’s a race that was always going to bring some surprises.

 

[OJRvE]

Slind has become ill and us out of the Tour. Sad because now Diggins victory seems certain. I had hoped for a great duel today and Sunday

 

[No Excuses]

Men's TdS is probably over. Klaebo needs to save 20 - 30s and he will do this.
Amundsen not really in shape and Niskanen disappointing.
Only Stenshagen doing great.

 

[Mayomaniac]

Nothing bad to say about the winner's performance today, chapeau.
Pellegrino is one good classic sprint away from a gc podium, cause Alpe Cermis suits him well.

 

[KZD]

Slind has become ill and us out of the Tour. Sad because now Diggins victory seems certain. I had hoped for a great duel today and Sunday

If I recall correctly the same happened to her last year...

Klæbo taking a big step to win another Tour de Ski today. The absence of a proper distance skating race really hurts skiers like Amundsen or Krüger who finally seems to be getting in shape.

Pellegrino doing great today, I think he will finish this Tour on the podium given that he is one of the best climbers among the top10.

 

[DonAragona]

Have to make the route even easier for the Golden boy so that he dorsn't skip the race to prepare for the Olympics.

Interestingly he did the skirious podcast last week and was complaining the Tour is too easy. He thinks it should start on Christmas Eve with more stops, longer distances and a return of the Toblach/Cortina stage.

 

[QueenStagiaire]

Interestingly he did the skirious podcast last week and was complaining the Tour is too easy. He thinks it should start on Christmas Eve with more stops, longer distances and a return of the Toblach/Cortina stage.

The ‚starting on christmas eve‘ part makes it sound like sarcasm.

 

[DonAragona]

The ‚starting on christmas eve‘ part makes it sound like sarcasm.

No his logic is that everybody is in the Alps, let's get going...and it would be good ratings.

 

[Eddy Evenepoel]

Outstanding performance by Diggins today. One of the best of her career.

 

[Discgear]

Outstanding performance by Diggins today. One of the best of her career.

Indeed. Very impressive, especially since it was classical style.

 

[DonAragona]

I thought Diggins was looking an old woman before Christmas, different skier after Christmas.

The Tour is very easy this year, wonder how many will skip the next World Cup races and turn up fresh in the Olympics?

 

[dobrien]

I thought Diggins was looking an old woman before Christmas, different skier after Christmas.

The Tour is very easy this year, wonder how many will skip the next World Cup races and turn up fresh in the Olympics?

?? Her sprint qualifiers may not have been the best but other than that she has been pretty stellar all year so far. 5th Ruka 10k classic, 2nd Ruka 20k free, 1st Trondheim Skiathlon, 3rd Trondheim 10k free, 5th Davos 10K free. Pretty good by any standard.

It's to her benefit the Tour is relatively easy this year, imho, not having to dig too deep, she thrives on racing to stay sharp. She is going to be one very formidable customer come the Olympics, I don't care what the Swedes are doing right now, and this being her last season, she will be hypermotivated to go out with a very big bang. Her classic skiing is looking better than ever and anyone who wants to beat her in February is going to have to kill her, that's for sure.

 

[BullsFan22]

?? Her sprint qualifiers may not have been the best but other than that she has been pretty stellar all year so far. 5th Ruka 10k classic, 2nd Ruka 20k free, 1st Trondheim Skiathlon, 3rd Trondheim 10k free, 5th Davos 10K free. Pretty good by any standard.

It's to her benefit the Tour is relatively easy this year, imho, not having to dig too deep, she thrives on racing to stay sharp. She is going to be one very formidable customer come the Olympics, I don't care what the Swedes are doing right now, and this being her last season, she will be hypermotivated to go out with a very big bang. Her classic skiing is looking better than ever and anyone who wants to beat her in February is going to have to kill her, that's for sure.

You have either two smaller peaks or one big peak during a season (if you get your preparation right and you stay healthy).

 

[BullsFan22]

I thought Diggins was looking an old woman before Christmas, different skier after Christmas.

The Tour is very easy this year, wonder how many will skip the next World Cup races and turn up fresh in the Olympics?

A lot of the top skiers will skip either all the races or some of them before the Olympics. It has always happened.

 

[DonAragona]

?? Her sprint qualifiers may not have been the best but other than that she has been pretty stellar all year so far. 5th Ruka 10k classic, 2nd Ruka 20k free, 1st Trondheim Skiathlon, 3rd Trondheim 10k free, 5th Davos 10K free. Pretty good by any standard.

It's to her benefit the Tour is relatively easy this year, imho, not having to dig too deep, she thrives on racing to stay sharp. She is going to be one very formidable customer come the Olympics, I don't care what the Swedes are doing right now, and this being her last season, she will be hypermotivated to go out with a very big bang. Her classic skiing is looking better than ever and anyone who wants to beat her in February is going to have to kill her, that's for sure.

It isn't neccessary to list her results, i watched the races.

Her two 10ks were mediocre(by her standards), the one in Davos in particular. She's looked much better this Tour but still stand by the point ,skiing gets harder with age and its much better to rest than go in everything at 34.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I don't think it's unreasonable for both things to be true simultaneously.

Diggins' on-paper results this season have been strong, but her performances to the eye test have not necessarily been as impressive to reach them, at least through December. She's looked far better here at the Tour, but then so much of it being at Toblach which, if not her personal favourite venue (I haven't seen whether she has professed a preference for any other over this one) is one that she always scores excellent results at, the shocking route, and the absence or lack of form of many major competitors pre-Olympics, may have made that improvement slightly artificial - nevertheless her actual skiing has looked better.

And yes, it's perhaps better to ration out racing and not go all out in everything at 34 the way she did at 27, but simultaneously, Diggins is both somebody who has historically benefited from racing a continuous calendar and maintaining her shape through constant competition, regularly shouldering a heavier workload than most; and somebody who has a very high base level and, especially based on the kind of increasingly generic and homogenous calendar that FIS has been presenting for the last several years, can continue to score strong finishing positions even when she isn't on form owing to the nature of the races provided and the skillset she has.

I would say though, that needing to be better than her at the Olympics will simply be a matter of one of her fellow elite competitors having better form, it's just that others are going for a higher risk strategy of a single super peak there. Diggins is a feisty competitor, no doubt about it, but the 'nobody fights as hard as her' narrative is perpetuated more out of her preferring to stay in racing rather than reduce her calendar, and deficits in her technique that look like she's fighting herself. For, say, Frida Karlsson to beat Diggins at the Olympics, she probably doesn't "have to kill her" - well, except maybe in the sprint, and then Frida is liable to kill more or less anything in her path if she does Strandvall her way to the final rather than just Diggins; Karlsson is demonstrably an elite competitor capable of beating Diggins on her day, and has focused her season pretty much solely on Val di Fiemme. She may beat Diggins or she may not - neither result would surprise me. For somebody more along the lines of Coletta Rydzek or Karoline Simpson-Larsen, who've achieved unexpected strong results this season off the back of some of that Olympic super-peaking meaning some of those who regularly fill the top 10s are absent or under-strength, on the other hand, those types probably would have to kill Jessie to stand a chance of beating her at the Olympics now.

 

[DonAragona]

I don't think it's unreasonable for both things to be true simultaneously.

Diggins' on-paper results this season have been strong, but her performances to the eye test have not necessarily been as impressive to reach them, at least through December. She's looked far better here at the Tour, but then so much of it being at Toblach which, if not her personal favourite venue (I haven't seen whether she has professed a preference for any other over this one) is one that she always scores excellent results at, the shocking route, and the absence or lack of form of many major competitors pre-Olympics, may have made that improvement slightly artificial - nevertheless her actual skiing has looked better.

And yes, it's perhaps better to ration out racing and not go all out in everything at 34 the way she did at 27, but simultaneously, Diggins is both somebody who has historically benefited from racing a continuous calendar and maintaining her shape through constant competition, regularly shouldering a heavier workload than most; and somebody who has a very high base level and, especially based on the kind of increasingly generic and homogenous calendar that FIS has been presenting for the last several years, can continue to score strong finishing positions even when she isn't on form owing to the nature of the races provided and the skillset she has.

I would say though, that needing to be better than her at the Olympics will simply be a matter of one of her fellow elite competitors having better form, it's just that others are going for a higher risk strategy of a single super peak there. Diggins is a feisty competitor, no doubt about it, but the 'nobody fights as hard as her' narrative is perpetuated more out of her preferring to stay in racing rather than reduce her calendar, and deficits in her technique that look like she's fighting herself. For, say, Frida Karlsson to beat Diggins at the Olympics, she probably doesn't "have to kill her" - well, except maybe in the sprint, and then Frida is liable to kill more or less anything in her path if she does Strandvall her way to the final rather than just Diggins; Karlsson is demonstrably an elite competitor capable of beating Diggins on her day, and has focused her season pretty much solely on Val di Fiemme. She may beat Diggins or she may not - neither result would surprise me. For somebody more along the lines of Coletta Rydzek or Karoline Simpson-Larsen, who've achieved unexpected strong results this season off the back of some of that Olympic super-peaking meaning some of those who regularly fill the top 10s are absent or under-strength, on the other hand, those types probably would have to kill Jessie to stand a chance of beating her at the Olympics now.

The elephant in the room is the standard of womens skiing has fallen in the last few years. The 87-91 golden generation is coming to an end, The 92-96 generation is largely absymal, then a good 97-99 generation. It's noticaable how few good skiers(if any) have been born it the 00s. Unlike the men, there really are only a few girls(5/6 at the most) who are capable of winning medals...The top skiers can be in poor shape and finish 7th(which doesn't look so bad as a result)

The Russians are missed.

 

[BullsFan22]

Curious to see what FIS does with Diggins, Kern, Schumacher, Ogden, etc…

 

[Bavarianrider]

Why haven't the Norwegians pulled out of the Tour de Ski and the Olympics ,yet? What exactly are they waiting for?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The elephant in the room is the standard of womens skiing has fallen in the last few years. The 87-91 golden generation is coming to an end, The 92-96 generation is largely absymal, then a good 97-99 generation. It's noticaable how few good skiers(if any) have been born it the 00s. Unlike the men, there really are only a few girls(5/6 at the most) who are capable of winning medals...The top skiers can be in poor shape and finish 7th(which doesn't look so bad as a result)

The Russians are missed.

Well, then we're back to a long-running discussion point, which is, how do you stop the bleed of midfield and upper-midfield talents to biathlon? And I don't just mean the likes of Denise Herrmann and Anamarija Lampič, but more those who move across in their youth so may never perform up to their potential as pure XC skiers as a result. We just had a whole generation of skiers for whom distance skiing has been about watching Johaug run away into the distance, and the number of races of more than 15km - the longest regular biathlon format for women - have only gone up over a couple of outlying 30ks a year in the last 2-3 seasons. While the top biathletes are not going to be competing with the top cross-country skiers in a head to head, there is now a very considerable drop-off from the top few to the pack in XC, and the top few teams bogart the World Cup points, the prize money, and that begets more budget to spend on wax and tech, further diminishing the chances of anybody not in the top few teams, so for top Czechs, Italians, Germans, Austrians, Swiss, Canadians... why wouldn't you at least have a go with the rifle where there's at least more variables?

It isn't helped by the issues we've had with a few of those who've come in the intervening period of course. Tiril Udnes Weng did at least win the World Cup overall from that '92-'96 generation, but it's probably also worth noting that Norway's women don't really have much to offer from that period in biathlon either - for a long time they were reliant on Eckhoff and Olsbu Røiseland (both 1990), and then there's a big gap until Tandrevold (1996) - Hilde Fenne (1993) had a great introduction to the top level in 2012-13 but then completely stalled out, and the only other decently successful athletes out of the '92-'96 time period for them is Knotten, who hasn't really hit her stride until her late 20s. And for the more recent ones, Fossesholm has obviously had injury problems, and others either seem to have very specific skillsets that make them less suitable for transferring to biathlon, such as Sophia Laukli, or have actually come to XC as failed biathletes, like Patricija Eiduka.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Jasmi Joensuu will now be in 2nd place going into the final climb. That tells you more than anything else about the ridiculousness of this route and the extent of the bonus seconds.

Genuinely happy for her to finally deliver in the actual sprint after her customary top qualification time, she has such a tendency to blow herself up with repeated efforts or, more commonly, fall over when she places herself badly somewhere en route to the final, but the very fact Jasmi Joensuu is not just GC relevant but 2nd overall at the base of Alpe Cermis is hilarious.

 

[dobrien]

It isn't neccessary to list her results, i watched the races.

Her two 10ks were mediocre(by her standards), the one in Davos in particular. She's looked much better this Tour but still stand by the point ,skiing gets harder with age and its much better to rest than go in everything at 34.

Sorry if I sounded too pedantic there, my apologies.

 

[dobrien]

I don't think it's unreasonable for both things to be true simultaneously.

Diggins' on-paper results this season have been strong, but her performances to the eye test have not necessarily been as impressive to reach them, at least through December. She's looked far better here at the Tour, but then so much of it being at Toblach which, if not her personal favourite venue (I haven't seen whether she has professed a preference for any other over this one) is one that she always scores excellent results at, the shocking route, and the absence or lack of form of many major competitors pre-Olympics, may have made that improvement slightly artificial - nevertheless her actual skiing has looked better.

And yes, it's perhaps better to ration out racing and not go all out in everything at 34 the way she did at 27, but simultaneously, Diggins is both somebody who has historically benefited from racing a continuous calendar and maintaining her shape through constant competition, regularly shouldering a heavier workload than most; and somebody who has a very high base level and, especially based on the kind of increasingly generic and homogenous calendar that FIS has been presenting for the last several years, can continue to score strong finishing positions even when she isn't on form owing to the nature of the races provided and the skillset she has.

I would say though, that needing to be better than her at the Olympics will simply be a matter of one of her fellow elite competitors having better form, it's just that others are going for a higher risk strategy of a single super peak there. Diggins is a feisty competitor, no doubt about it, but the 'nobody fights as hard as her' narrative is perpetuated more out of her preferring to stay in racing rather than reduce her calendar, and deficits in her technique that look like she's fighting herself. For, say, Frida Karlsson to beat Diggins at the Olympics, she probably doesn't "have to kill her" - well, except maybe in the sprint, and then Frida is liable to kill more or less anything in her path if she does Strandvall her way to the final rather than just Diggins; Karlsson is demonstrably an elite competitor capable of beating Diggins on her day, and has focused her season pretty much solely on Val di Fiemme. She may beat Diggins or she may not - neither result would surprise me. For somebody more along the lines of Coletta Rydzek or Karoline Simpson-Larsen, who've achieved unexpected strong results this season off the back of some of that Olympic super-peaking meaning some of those who regularly fill the top 10s are absent or under-strength, on the other hand, those types probably would have to kill Jessie to stand a chance of beating her at the Olympics now.

All good points and well put; thanks.

 

[dobrien]

Curious to see what FIS does with Diggins, Kern, Schumacher, Ogden, etc…

I'm from the US and honestly, at what point does this become a thing? I would be fine with being banned for saying I'm ashamed of this abomination, it's truly awful.

 

[KZD]

Jasmi Joensuu will now be in 2nd place going into the final climb. That tells you more than anything else about the ridiculousness of this route and the extent of the bonus seconds.

Genuinely happy for her to finally deliver in the actual sprint after her customary top qualification time, she has such a tendency to blow herself up with repeated efforts or, more commonly, fall over when she places herself badly somewhere en route to the final, but the very fact Jasmi Joensuu is not just GC relevant but 2nd overall at the base of Alpe Cermis is hilarious.

The absence of a long skating race is criminal. Having said that, I am also happy that Joensuu won today.

Klaebo just leagues above everyone else in the men's. Great podium for Grahn and final for Stölben.