Nuclear disaster in Japan and wider Nuclear discussion

[mewmewmew13]

For those who are uneasy about the nuclear problems in Japan, please read this well-written article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198421680697248.html

Also, a good opinion on nature's destruction vs man-made ...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198723013907008.html[/QUOTe

A people are being evacuated for a reason.
B the safe guards built into the plant failed
C Tokyo power Co. are destroying their own reactors to prevent a disaster.

Wall Street Journal has a feel good story. It is not like they are reporting the situation.

Trolling...you just showed me you did not read either article.
Pffft.

To quote the Tucker article:
"...With all the death, devastation and disease now threatening tens of thousands in Japan, it is trivializing and almost obscene to spend so much time worrying about damage to a nuclear reactor."

 

[Le breton]

For those who are uneasy about the nuclear problems in Japan, please read this well-written article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198421680697248.html

Also, a good opinion on nature's destruction vs man-made ...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704893604576198723013907008.html

In general I'm pro-nuclear, although I believe that alternatives to the current designs, intrinsically safer ones, possibly more costly, should have been favoured.
It seems clear to me that the situation in those 3 power plants is not nearly as dramatic as in Chernobyl, but these 2 articles do not seem to me to give a balanced view of things.

Clearly the Japanese authorities and TEPCO downplay the seriousness of the situation. We hear nothing or next to nothing about radiation levels in the plants and in the area, only very minute amounts of information. Nothing is said about what happens to the sea-water used for cooling down, does it all evaporate eventually, does some leak out, what proportion gets vented, what volumes are we talking about??

What if another tsunami happens there, there is so much seismic activity that experts are warning that a major eathquake is to be expected in the next few days.

 

[Benotti69]

they are using sea water to try and cool the rods. Where are they pumping the 'used' sea water, that i presume is contaminated? back into the sea?

 

[rhubroma]

I've heard one of the reactors in difficulty has plutonium in it.

Now that's progress.

 

[Le breton]

I've heard one of the reactors in difficulty has plutonium in it.

Now that's progress.

Yes, No3 in Fukushima I (Daiichi)
see post No 159 above, it was reloaded with MOX last september.

 

[flicker]

Trolling...you just showed me you did not read either article.
Pffft.

To quote the Tucker article:
"...With all the death, devastation and disease now threatening tens of thousands in Japan, it is trivializing and almost obscene to spend so much time worrying about damage to a nuclear reactor."

You need to understand that some countries do not have the nuclear containment capabilities of the USA. Chernobyl will not happen in Japan, but there is a good possibility of local contamination. That can make the land unusable for a long long time. Also since we on the west coast of the USA are down wind from as you call them (minor incidences) we have concerns here.

 

[Le breton]

Yes, No3 in Fukushima I (Daiichi)
see post No 159 above, it was reloaded with MOX last september.

Explosion in reactor buildingAn explosion was heard after 6:10 JST on 15 March in unit 2, and the pressure-suppression system, which is at the bottom part of the container, may have been damaged.[77][78] The radiation level was reported to exceed the legal limit and the plant's operator has started to evacuate workers from the plant.[79]

(wikipedia)

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I've heard one of the reactors in difficulty has plutonium in it.

Now that's progress.

Yeah your a mensa so I would guess anything would fall short.

 

[Ferminal]

http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS_Possible_damage_at_Fukushima_Daiichi_2_1503111.html

Possible damage at Fukushima Daiichi 2
15 March 2011

FIRST PUBLISHED 1.22 GMT


Loud noises were heard at Fukushima Daiichi 2 at 6.10am this morning. A major component beneath the reactor may be damaged.



Confirmation of loud sounds this morning came from the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency (NISA). It noted that "the suppression chamber may be damaged." It is not clear that the sounds were explosions.



Also known as the torus, this large doughnut-shaped structure sits in the centre of the reactor building at a lower level than the reactor. It contains a very large body of water to which steam can be directed in emergency situations. The steam then condenses and reduces pressure in the reactor system.

The torus is not within the primary containment structure surrounding the reactor vessel, but within the secondary containment structure of the reactor building itself.

Quoted whole thing as they have been getting quite congested.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

There's so much talk of the reactor vessel, but what about the spent fuel pools? In a Mark I reactor, the spent fuel pools are *above* the reactor vessel and contain far more material and are very susceptible to going critical if exposed to air (i.e., a leak in the pool).

With the hydrogen explosions in close proximity, how safe are these pools? Have they been compromised? Why haven't they been discussed?

John Swanson

 

[flicker]

Sci-fi. Todays problem is yesterdays Gojira.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/japans-long-nuclear-disaster-film/?hp

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Ah, here we go. An article in the Guardian wih Robert Alvarez has a bit of info.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/14/nuclearpower-energy

To quote: "There is growing concern about the status of irradiated fuel pools at all of the Fukushima reactors. The pools are located inside the outer containment building above the core and, like the reactor cores, require constant cooling. Pictures from the site show that at least the top third of two containment buildings have been blown off, so the integrity of the fuel pools is unclear."

So yeah, about as bad as I'd expect. My best wishes to anyone who might be asked to deal with this mess. And what a mess.

John Swanson

 

[flicker]

Ah, here we go. An article in the Guardian wih Robert Alvarez has a bit of info.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/14/nuclearpower-energy

To quote: "There is growing concern about the status of irradiated fuel pools at all of the Fukushima reactors. The pools are located inside the outer containment building above the core and, like the reactor cores, require constant cooling. Pictures from the site show that at least the top third of two containment buildings have been blown off, so the integrity of the fuel pools is unclear."

So yeah, about as bad as I'd expect. My best wishes to anyone who might be asked to deal with this mess. And what a mess.

John Swanson

Probably the next best scenario is to bring in heaviest lifting copters available with 10 cu. yd. scoops of concrete slurry mixed with powdered lead aggregate and entomb the reactors from the air. The officials will sacrifice some workers and equipment, but the situation needs to stop.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...plosion-at-the-japanese-reactor.html?ref=asia

 

[BroDeal]

Oh, man. They are boned. A fourth reactor is on fire. People within 30 km are being warned to stay inside.

I don't get how things could have spiraled out of control over so many days.

 

[BroDeal]

Ah, here we go. An article in the Guardian wih Robert Alvarez has a bit of info.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/mar/14/nuclearpower-energy

To quote: "There is growing concern about the status of irradiated fuel pools at all of the Fukushima reactors. The pools are located inside the outer containment building above the core and, like the reactor cores, require constant cooling. Pictures from the site show that at least the top third of two containment buildings have been blown off, so the integrity of the fuel pools is unclear."

NY Times article about the spent fuel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/world/asia/15fuel.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

 

[rhubroma]

Yeah your a mensa so I would guess anything would fall short.

That's you're a mensa...

This is one case for which I sincerely hope I'm wrong, but the pro-nukes, pro-business types, if they had any decency, would do well to be extremely humble in this moment and to keep reticent.

All our governments should have told us was to consume less, and nuclear energy would have been obsolete. They aren't economically advantageous in the short term and, in the long term, potentially catastrophic. From a social perspective they only cause discord in an increasingly polarized world already filled with a million dangerous. Why build them?

All in the name of science, progress and so called human intelligence. We are so intelligent that we can cause our own self-destruction.

 

[BroDeal]

Uh-oh. A spent fuel storage pond is on fire.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Since experts say there won´t be a complete meltdown (how they know it, when not being there??), i can safely say:
Yes this whole thing will explode with Plutonium contamination of Japan for the next 240.000 Years.

Good night, and good luck all Pro-Nukes

 

[Ferminal]

Uh-oh. A spent fuel storage pond is on fire.

Japanese Earthquake Update (15 March 07:35 UTC)
by International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on Tuesday, March 15, 2011 at 12:37am
Japanese authorities have confirmed that the fire at the spent fuel storage pond at the Unit 4 reactor of Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant was extinguished on 15 March at 02:00 UTC.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/inte...uake-update-15-march-0735-utc/201888033174324

 

[Le breton]

https://www.facebook.com/notes/inte...uake-update-15-march-0735-utc/201888033174324

I found your avatar
http://repo-nt.tcc.virginia.edu/classes/tcc313/200rprojs/manhattan/fermi_main.html

(My thesis adviser was the last student of Fermi)
How do you reply to people like FoxxyBrown1111?
Can you ignore them?

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

I wanted to stuff the SOB head first into the reactor. What's wrong with these people? There are thousands of bodies washing up on the shore and he's talking about making money. Does working in finance warp your brain?

I don't know how people like this sleep at night.

Yes.

Estimated 4% of the human population are psychopaths. Since they can´t care about anything, most of them work in politics, the financial sector, military and some in sports.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Since experts say there won´t be a complete meltdown (how they know it, when not being there??), i can safely say:
Yes this whole thing will explode with Plutonium contamination of Japan for the next 240.000 Years.

Good night, and good luck all Pro-Nukes

I didn´t expected to be right that soon. The disaster is already there:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,750954,00.html

Two big holes in the reactor wall. Meaning it´s open!

Pro-Nuke forever (cynicism)

 

[Ferminal]

I didn´t expected to be right that soon. The disaster is already there:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,750954,00.html

Yet you're citing a commercial publication...

 

[Le breton]

I didn´t expected to be right that soon. The disaster is already there:.....

So, you are happy?
Go back to play football with your avatar.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

So, you are happy?
Go back to play football with your avatar.

Not happy, just tried to explain my disgust for "Pro-Nuke-People"... It seems it worked. So please, nothing personal about JimmyMac or Cyclists (i really like LeMevel, Bassons, Voeckler etc.).

BTW: INES is raised from 5 to 6 right now. Another day and we´ll have 7 (like Tschernobyl)