• The Cycling News forum is looking to add some volunteer moderators with Red Rick's recent retirement. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

O'Bee lifetime ban

Page 3 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Sep 20, 2010
66
0
0
Visit site
DAOTEC said:
Shawn Milne named 2007 Professional Criterium National Champion


Colorado Springs, Colo. (October 7, 2010) – Following USADA’s disqualification of Kirk O’Bee’s results,Shawn Milne (Beverly, Mass.) has been named 2007 USA Cycling Professional Criterium National Champion.

USA Cycling contacted Milne today to congratulate him on his title. A 2007 Stars-and-Stripes jersey was also mailed to the rightful winner.

The updated 2007 national champions list can be found here, while the updated results from the 2007 USA Cycling Professional Criterium National Championships can be found here.

http://www.usacycling.org/news/user/story.php?id=5544


Another Navigator...
 
Rip:30 said:
I'd guess something near 50k. Anyone have any solid #s?

From a staff member who worked with him, she thought it was 50-ish, but they always make some serious prize money. With prize money he might have pushed the 80-100k range on good years. Half that in his lesser years. Don't forget, that's profit, you have to take off the money it cost to dope.

Nothstein...ha. That juice monkey showed up at this regional kinda road race one spring. It wasn't too much above freezing and it was raining. He had jersey and shorts on and he looked like he was dying of the heat! I almost fell into a ditch after the race I was so cold...and I finished well ahead of him (there was a hill) so I was working at least as hard as he was. Hmmm.
 
Aug 10, 2009
213
0
0
Visit site
Hairy Wheels said:
From a staff member who worked with him, she thought it was 50-ish, but they always make some serious prize money. With prize money he might have pushed the 80-100k range on good years. Half that in his lesser years. Don't forget, that's profit, you have to take off the money it cost to dope.

Nothstein...ha. That juice monkey showed up at this regional kinda road race one spring. It wasn't too much above freezing and it was raining. He had jersey and shorts on and he looked like he was dying of the heat! I almost fell into a ditch after the race I was so cold...and I finished well ahead of him (there was a hill) so I was working at least as hard as he was. Hmmm.

131313 already stated it was between 20-30k. Very few US domestic pros make over 50k. Very few.

Sure he was a national champ but his prior doping offence made him a risky rider and he wasn't getting top $$.

You are also grossly overestimating prize money. Remember prizes are split between all team riders and staff. So that is about a 20 way split by end of season. If there are 5 staff in the split - they get a half split. So you're estimating riders at 30-50k and staff at 15-ish. Thats well well over 300k in prize money for the team for the season. That isn't realistic at all. The figure is more likely under 100k. Probably in the 70k-ish range. Remember too prize money in the US has declined significantly since Philly was $50K for the win. There are not alot of big money races in the US anymore.

A US domestic pro on a biggish team will likely bring in $7-10k in his team split for the season and maybe bring in a few thousand more for races he does on his own - if he's so inclined to go off and be a mercenary crit monkey from time to time. But even then, the solo pros tend to combine and that saturates the split quickly too.

O'Bee was likely making just under 40K all-in. Maybe a bit more if he ebay-ed some of his team gear.
 
shouldawouldacoulda said:
131313 already stated it was between 20-30k. Very few US domestic pros make over 50k. Very few.

Sure he was a national champ but his prior doping offence made him a risky rider and he wasn't getting top $$.

You are also grossly overestimating prize money. Remember prizes are split between all team riders and staff. So that is about a 20 way split by end of season. If there are 5 staff in the split - they get a half split. So you're estimating riders at 30-50k and staff at 15-ish. Thats well well over 300k in prize money for the team for the season. That isn't realistic at all. The figure is more likely under 100k. Probably in the 70k-ish range. Remember too prize money in the US has declined significantly since Philly was $50K for the win. There are not alot of big money races in the US anymore.

A US domestic pro on a biggish team will likely bring in $7-10k in his team split for the season and maybe bring in a few thousand more for races he does on his own - if he's so inclined to go off and be a mercenary crit monkey from time to time. But even then, the solo pros tend to combine and that saturates the split quickly too.

O'Bee was likely making just under 40K all-in. Maybe a bit more if he ebay-ed some of his team gear.

I didn't say he made 50k every year, but there was a year or two when he did. Maybe 40-50 but it was up there. Prize money on a good year can definitely be up there. Don't forget, times have changed somewhat in the US in the last 10 years or so. There are fewer mid-level money crits...more high end and more stage racing where guys like Dopee aren't going to make as much.

Maybe I'm wrong and overestimating, though, having raced pretty extensively throughout the US over the years I've got a fairly good sense of what goes down. I also have friends on a few teams and staff. I think you're underestimating what he would have made though, at least for his best years. I definitely think 60-80 on his best year was doable. No doubt actually. Again, go back 5 to 10 years and the scene changes.

As an aside, a few years back I had a teammate hit up a good sized crit in the US on his own. 3600 was his pay day including primes. That was all his.
 
Jun 18, 2009
1,225
1
0
Visit site
shouldawouldacoulda said:
Can't wait to see O'Neil go down... but not sure that will happen. I think he'll just quietly retire because he won't be able to get a contract.

Ugggghhh....you're totally right. He's been here so long he's like part of the lawn furniture. I assumed he was racing on a US license, but sure enough he isn't.

Maybe we can deport him or something....

And I agree on your second point. I just don't see ACF really bothering to worry about a guy on the verge or retiring or doing local parking lot crits while unattached.
 
Aug 10, 2009
213
0
0
Visit site
Hairy Wheels said:
I definitely think 60-80 on his best year was doable. No doubt actually. Again, go back 5 to 10 years and the scene changes.

As an aside, a few years back I had a teammate hit up a good sized crit in the US on his own. 3600 was his pay day including primes. That was all his.

I agree, in his best years Obee was likely around 60k. I didn't mean to jump on you, I was talking about his likely wage this year - which 131313 likely nailed.

When you are racing on your own you don't have to split, so sure you can have a big payday. But seriously, on a biggish team the split really dilutes what the riders haul in by year's end. There are not a lot of big money races in the US, so a ceiling of about $100k for a team's season prize earnings is pretty accurate. Then do the math on splitting that out between 14-16 riders and the staff.

If you compare your buddy's great weekend with say UHC's NVGP (arguably the biggest purse on the NRC?) this year. your buddy probably did better that one day than the UHC guys did for the whole week. All in UHC likely made about 24k that week, but they had 8 riders and 4 staff. That would be about $2,400 ea rider for the week. And they don't have many weeks like that in a year :)

I kinda know the scene too, and it is really hard to make more than $15k in prize money in a season when you are on a biggish team. I've seen this personally and also confirmed it talking to riders on various teams.

Yeah in the past when Philly week had huge money and $50K for the win on Sunday guys might have done better. But now I can't think of a single race on the US domestic scene where first prize is more than 15k? Maybe the tour of Cali - but domestic guys don't win that and I still think the GC is around $15k. Nowadays teams usually start 8 guys, and come with 3-5 staff... so the split is big.

Remember as well that what we think teams get isn't what they actually get. There is usually an IRS deduction taken off by good organizers (that are running their races legit) and if the race is a UCI race there is a 9% UCI tax taken off the purse. So in a big race like ATOC, Philly or in the past Missouri, Georgia or whatever you can lose 30% or more of your prize money to taxes.

Caveat: I'm assuming an equal split. Some teams may have non-equal splits but I've honestly never heard of that happening since the 90's. Check that, I heard Horner and Dionne didn't split equally with their Webcor team mates in 2004 :)
 
Nice to see some posters from the past come out for this one. What a sad, bitter story unfortunately. Especially for Shawn Milne. They can mail him the jersey, hand him a check, and put his name in the record books. But there will never be the crowd there to applaud him as he stands on the podium. He'll never hoist the trophy over his head, and never wave for the photos in that jersey when he hears his name from the announcer that he's the national champion.

If I were still racing (I was never anywhere near this good anyway) I'd be pretty sick to my stomach about this.

JRTinMA said:
I forgot about Mitch, he may win the prize for most PEDs in his system at one time. I think he even beat Dan Staite by a PED or two.
What about Leogrande? The guy with the fridge full of EPO. He made so many enemies, does anyone think this guy will ever get another team to even sign him?
 
Jul 27, 2009
496
0
0
Visit site
Thanks for all those that answered my question.

Terribly sad - all of it. And all for less than what he could have earned if he'd quit being a pro, got a real job, and just beat up on his buddies at the local crits every weekend.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
JRTinMA said:
Isn't that going to be a little bit of an issue since he's suspended? Hey Joe, thanks, I owe you man...

Suspension up in December.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
JRTinMA said:
Great, hopefully the Monster Media team budget keeps him out west. Nothing worse than a ex doper with something to prove kickin' it with the Cat 1's.

I suspect we will see alot of the MM team here in SoCal.
 
Jun 18, 2009
1,225
1
0
Visit site
Scott SoCal said:

Well, you don't have to sign a contract to be an amateur... I get the impression that's a team of former pros without contracts racing as an "elite amateur team". It also appears that it's KL's own team, so not a surprise he's on it.

Good luck getting sponsors, shouldn't be a hard sell.

And everyone else on that team immediately goes onto the punk list, especially Daniel Ramsey, who should really know better.
 
131313 said:
Well, you don't have to sign a contract to be an amateur... I get the impression that's a team of former pros without contracts racing as an "elite amateur team". It also appears that it's KL's own team, so not a surprise he's on it.

Good luck getting sponsors, shouldn't be a hard sell.

And everyone else on that team immediately goes onto the punk list, especially Daniel Ramsey, who should really know better.

Bingo.

All SoCal, elite amateur team. Kind of a Rock Racing legacy team...

Ashley isn't a bad guy, actually a real up-and-comer, started last season as a Cat-2...