Ochowicz taking fans for idiots!

[NedBraden]

Don't question, just follow. Ocho is a very important person, of course we should all believe every thing he says.

Where did I say anything about believing anyone? Are you guys that paranoid about looking like fools that you have to respond with false claims about anyone who questions your "damned if you do, damned if you don't" approach?

The funniest part is that you guys remind me of the "alternative" kids from when I was in school. You know the ones who claimed everyone else where sheep who wore a uniform while they believed,acted and dressed alike. Don't question just criticize and attack everything no matter what it is is your version of don't question just follow. Same thing.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Where did I say anything about believing anyone? Are you guys that paranoid about looking like fools that you have to respond with false claims about anyone who questions your "damned if you do, damned if you don't" approach?

The funniest part is that you guys remind me of the "alternative" kids from when I was in school. You know the ones who claimed everyone else where sheep who wore a uniform while they believed,acted and dressed alike. Don't question just criticize and attack everything no matter what it is is your version of don't question just follow. Same thing.

Hold on - are you accusing others of making "false claims" against your false claim that Och would be "damed if you do, damed if you don't"?

When BMC pulled these guys it was met with general approval - it has only become an issue now because Och has decided that these guys should no longer be suspended even though there is nothing new in their situation.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

The funniest part is that you guys remind me of the "alternative" kids from when I was in school. You know the ones who claimed everyone else where sheep who wore a uniform while they believed,acted and dressed alike. Don't question just criticize and attack everything no matter what it is is your version of don't question just follow. Same thing.

Oh, dear. It sounds like there is a wee bit of projection going on here as the self styled rebel rails against the conventional wisdom in the face of overwhelming evidence that he is wrong. Do not worry, bro. The goth chicas will still think you are cool. It is the struggle that counts, not who is right or wrong.

 

[NedBraden]

Maserati- In this thread I have seen people say he should be criticized for saying he can't get info and say he is responsible for the doping when he does say something. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Take a look in just about every thread in every cycling forum and you will see a core group who does this.

Machiavelli- Nope, I was not part of that crowd, but did have friends who were. Nice try going for the attempted insult rather then discuss the topic.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Maserati- In this thread I have seen people say he should be criticized for saying he can't get info and say he is responsible for the doping when he does say something. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. Take a look in just about every thread in every cycling forum and you will see a core group who does this.

Machiavelli- Nope, I was not part of that crowd, but did have friends who were. Nice try going for the attempted insult rather then discuss the topic.

Hold on - if he is "damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't", would that not be (at least) two "core groups"?

I think you will find that is how most forums work - arguments are formed and often debated. Your problem appears to be with a "core group" that you don't agree with.

 

[NedBraden]

Hold on - if he is "damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't", would that not be (at least) two "core groups"?

I think you will find that is how most forums work - arguments are formed and often debated. Your problem appears to be with a "core group" that you don't agree with.

It's one core group and "damned if you do, damned if you don't" means those people criticize no matter what is said.

Do you understand now or are you simply being obstinate in order to try tostart an argument?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

It's one core group and "damned if you do, damned if you don't" means those people criticize no matter what is said.

Do you understand now or are you simply being obstinate in order to try tostart an argument?

Ok - if its "one core group" that is criticizing Och than can you show just one member of that group who criticized him for suspending the 2 riders and then criticized him for putting them back on the team.

 

[NedBraden]

Ok - if its "one core group" that is criticizing Och than can you show just one member of that group who criticized him for suspending the 2 riders and then criticized him for putting them back on the team.

Hmmmm, suddenly you have changed tack...not surprised as it's clear that you are simply going about doing the latter option I suggested. No need for me to respond further since it would be merely playing into your hand. Feel free to have a last word and claim some sort of victory as I know the type of internet poster you are.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Hmmmm, suddenly you have changed tack...not surprised as it's clear that you are simply going about doing the latter option I suggested. No need for me to respond further since it would be merely playing into your hand. Feel free to have a last word and claim some sort of victory as I know the type of internet poster you are.

How would we get in to an argument?

I offered you the opportunity to back up what you said - by doing so you would have proved your point and ended any further discussion.

So I will let you have the last word on the matter by just offering an example to back up what you said.

 

[Hugh Januss]

How would we get in to an argument?

I offered you the opportunity to back up what you said - by doing so you would have proved your point and ended any further discussion.

So I will let you have the last word on the matter by just offering an example to back up what you said.

<crickets>

 

[Benotti69]

Poor Och must have got a big surprise today when he read in the papers that poor little Ballan has to go to Italy for an interview on the 27th with NAS and CONI.

Must be a mistake a terrible mistake.

 

[hfer07]

based on the latest development-I hope Ochowicz can come with a new "excuse" -because all indications are leading to the fall of Ballan, and there is nothing he can do or try to hide it from now on

 

[yourwelcome]

based on the latest development-I hope Ochowicz can come with a new "excuse" -because all indications are leading to the fall of Ballan, and there is nothing he can do or try to hide it from now on

Has he been hiding it?

He's already taken Ballan out once for this, and let's see if he doesn't just take Ballan out again whenever the authorities confirm Ballan is in trouble.

Have the authorities confirmed they have problems concerning Ballan yet?

 

[Race Radio]

Och says he can't talk right now


http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...or-ochowicz-to-comment-on-landis-claim_275979

He is too busy climbing out of the ditch

 

[86TDFWinner]

Of course he "doesn't want to talk", most guilty people don't.

 

[MarkvW]

In case it hasn't already been posted, this is a very good read:

http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/dopestrong.htm

 

[mewmewmew13]

In case it hasn't already been posted, this is a very good read:

http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/dopestrong.htm

It was just posted on twitter by Paul Willerton. It IS a good read.

 

[Maxiton]

In case it hasn't already been posted, this is a very good read:

http://www.stanford.edu/~learnest/cyclops/dopestrong.htm

Fantastic. He really lays it all out there. A detailed, first-hand account like that should greatly facilitate the forensic examination that will, hopefully, soon be coming.

 

[hiero2]

Hate to say it but I don't think he stands a chance. It shows the fallacy of hoping that the next generation will be cleaner.

If Phinney wants to ride clean his best bet is to join FDJ but he's got no hope at Phonak II with Och.

If Armstrong is a boil on the **** of the sport, Och is a skidmark in the pants of the sport.

I sure hope it doesn't work out that way for young Phinney - but you could
be right. There was a day when I would have put money down that Och hadn't gone to the dark side - but now?

 

[del1962]

So Ochowitz actually cheated in an old fashioned way in a 1970s bike race, and he is allowed to manage a cycle team

 

[86TDFWinner]

So Ochowitz actually cheated in an old fashioned way in a 1970s bike race, and he is allowed to manage a cycle team

2-3 infact(and I agree...it doesnt make sense).

 

[DirtyWorks]

It was just posted on twitter by Paul Willerton. It IS a good read.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.php?p=1125078&postcount=1

Les has his heart in the right place. He's one of a small number of people with historical depth and some honesty. Which, is why the sport will always be a small-time mess with the reputation of boxing.

He's posted some testimony from Steve Johnson that makes it clear that there is much more bad stuff going on at USACDF than anyone is interested in covering.

 

[Race Radio]

Anyone remember back in 2006 when Och pushed Bisceglia out the door?

http://velonews.competitor.com/2006/04/news/exit-interview-bisceglia-speaks-part-1_9712