Off season. We need some Giro 2011 discussion.

[Eshnar]

Last time around Savoldelli was further behind over Finestre than at the finish.

He had company for the final climb and did a daredevil descent, but still...

..still made for an epic stage. Savoldelli was virtually losing the Giro on the top of Finestre. Without Sestriere, the stage would have been one hour shorter and way less exciting

 

[Ferminal]

Last time around Savoldelli was further behind over Finestre than at the finish.

He had company for the final climb and did a daredevil descent, but still...

What's wrong with earning time on a descent? The climb was great and Savoldelli was gone. He lost the Giro badly (he would have ended up 4th overall I think?). Paolo bringing it back on the descent and then Rujano riding Gilberto off his wheel made the stage that much better.

 

[roundabout]

It was exciting, i'm not denying that, it's just the gaps didn't stretch unlike a stage over the Mortirolo. That's all.

 

[Ferminal]

It was exciting, i'm not denying that, it's just the gaps didn't stretch unlike a stage over the Mortirolo. That's all.

Well that's more to do with the way the stage played out and who was there. If you had the situation at Aprica last year in 2005 it probably would have.

 

[Eshnar]

It was exciting, i'm not denying that, it's just the gaps didn't stretch unlike a stage over the Mortirolo. That's all.

It's not a rule
When the riders climb the likes of Mortirolo and then Aprica, OFTEN the gaps stretch. But there have been also times when they didn't. Obviously the attitude and the energy left of the riders does matter. In 2005, the Sestriere stage was the last one of a terrible 3 days (MTF, ITT and then Finestre) which left the riders pretty tired
On Sestriere Di Luca and Simoni cracked, so Rujano went alone, while Savoldelli had a fair number of allies.
Last year the Mortirolo stage was the first one of the final weekend, and Nibali nor Scarponi cracked. Plus, Sastre, Vino, Evans and Arroyo spent most of the final climb staring at each other.

 

[El Pistolero]

Descends are cooler than ascends

Paolo Savoldelli's descend on the colle delle Finestre(Giro d'italia 2005) was one of my favorite cycling moments.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Descends are cooler than ascends

Paolo Savoldelli's descend on the colle delle Finestre(Giro d'italia 2005) was one of my favorite cycling moments.

that one wasn't very impressive in my memory and he didn't drop anyone over took much time on guys in front. the one in giro 1999 when he won stage 3 minutes ahead of pantani group is the best recorded downhil I think ever in tv history. in that downhil he took 3 minutes!! on the riders behind him

 

[Eshnar]

that one wasn't very impressive in my memory and he didn't drop anyone over took much time on guys in front. the one in giro 1999 when he won stage 3 minutes ahead of pantani group is the best recorded downhil I think ever in tv history. in that downhil he took 3 minutes!! on the riders behind him

I completely agree

Though that was the descent of Fauniera (something near 25 km long), while the descent of Finestre is way shorter.

 

[El Pistolero]

that one wasn't very impressive in my memory and he didn't drop anyone over took much time on guys in front. the one in giro 1999 when he won stage 3 minutes ahead of pantani group is the best recorded downhil I think ever in tv history. in that downhil he took 3 minutes!! on the riders behind him

So what, in that downhill he won the Giro. How many people can say that.

 

[Parrulo]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/nibali-continues-giro-ditalia-preparation-on-etna

nibles really is taking his preparation very seriously. . .

can he be contador's main adversary?

 

[The Hitch]

How dare you suggest to Ryo that anyone but Rujano will challenge Contador

I maintain that Scarponi will be big. I think hell be the main challenger.

Personally, even though i have a lot of respect for the Shark this season (unlike last season where i cheered against him), the average cycling fan will be disapointed with what they see from him.

For example, some **** on wikipedia wrote that Nibali was the big favourite for the Giro. and Because i was not a supermod or whatever they call it i couldnt even delete that sentence. So the paragraph read something like.


Nibali is the big favoruite.... Other favourites include Denis Menchov Igor Anton and Alberto Contador.

How could such people not be disapointed this Giro.

I just dont see him going from losing time to a dead Purito and Mosquera on most mountain stages, and even from matching Eze on Bola, to trying to go with Contador, healthy Purito, Anton, Scarponi, Menchov on Zoncolan or Finnestre.

Hell do his best, hell show heart and guts and hell kill himself and he will be up there, but some stages he will just lose time and unfortunately the Giro lineup is just too good while the profile doesnt suit him fully.

 

[luckyboy]

Yeah I can't see him hanging on either.

Will be interesting to see if Menchov can stick to wheels like he did to Di Luca. Well I really hope he manages to, not too hopeful though.

 

[Parrulo]

How dare you suggest to Ryo that anyone but Rujano will challenge Contador

I maintain that Scarponi will be big. I think hell be the main challenger.

Personally, even though i have a lot of respect for the Shark this season (unlike last season where i cheered against him), the average cycling fan will be disapointed with what they see from him.

For example, some **** on wikipedia wrote that Nibali was the big favourite for the Giro. and Because i was not a supermod or whatever they call it i couldnt even delete that sentence. So the paragraph read something like.


Nibali is the big favoruite.... Other favourites include Denis Menchov Igor Anton and Alberto Contador.

How could such people not be disapointed this Giro.

I just dont see him going from losing time to a dead Purito and Mosquera on most mountain stages, and even from matching Eze on Bola, to trying to go with Contador, healthy Purito, Anton, Scarponi, Menchov on Zoncolan or Finnestre.

Hell do his best, hell show heart and guts and hell kill himself and he will be up there, but some stages he will just lose time and unfortunately the Giro lineup is just too good while the profile doesnt suit him fully.

i also agree with most of this but he has improved steadily in the past years, maybe he still has some progress margin in him. i liked what i saw in T-A and M-SR but that isn't even a show of high mountain capacity.

one thing is for sure next may will no doubt be the most important month in nibali's carrier. he has to confirm he can be a serious GT treat(not just top 10 fodder) and if he fails to deliver people will start talking how he wining the vuelta was just luck and he can't deliver ever again and all that . . . so for his own good and so we can see good racing i hope he delivers.

also hitch don't need to bash me with scarponi i also believe he will be up there fighting for the win.

p.s. i also think that his ability to hang on and to suffer will let him cut his losses a lot compared to some other guys who when dropped pretty much quit.

 

[The Hitch]

i also agree with most of this but he has improved steadily in the past years, maybe he still has some progress margin in him. i liked what i saw in T-A and M-SR but that isn't even a show of high mountain capacity.

one thing is for sure next may will no doubt be the most important month in nibali's carrier. he has to confirm he can be a serious GT treat(not just top 10 fodder) and if he fails to deliver people will start talking how he wining the vuelta was just luck and he can't deliver ever again and all that . . . so for his own good and so we can see good racing i hope he delivers.

also hitch don't need to bash me with scarponi i also believe he will be up there fighting for the win.

p.s. i also think that his ability to hang on and to suffer will let him cut his losses a lot compared to some other guys who when dropped pretty much quit.

Im not basing you with Scarponi, just putting him out there as my pick.

And I dont think Nibali needs to prove he is not just top 10 fodder. Hes definately better than that. two podiums prove it. I think he could potentialy podium in the Tour if he was riding that. Just at this Giro you have a higher field than you would usualy at a grand tour (even than at the TDF) and you have it on a super mountain parcors and these 2 things conspire against Nibali hence he will get a lower position than he would at an average grand tour.

 

[Parrulo]

Im not basing you with Scarponi, just putting him out there as my pick.

And I dont think Nibali needs to prove he is not just top 10 fodder. Hes definately better than that. two podiums prove it. I think he could potentialy podium in the Tour if he was riding that. Just at this Giro you have a higher field than you would usualy at a grand tour (even than at the TDF) and you have it on a super mountain parcors and these 2 things conspire against Nibali hence he will get a lower position than he would at an average grand tour.

ok i was a bit harsh on top 10 fodder but i was just trying to make a point, anyway remember that for many people cough D_T cough nibali is the guy who got carried by basso into a podium spot in the giro and that only won the vuelta cus anton crashed and the field was weak. thats why i think he has to prove himself. tbh i have always been a fan of nibali and seeing him ditch the tour to focus on other GT's for a second year (ya he was planing on doing the tour last year and was forced into doing the giro but still could have ridden the tour anyway but prefered to try to win the vuelta instead of just being another one in the tour) and he focusing on the monuments(cept cobbles ofc) makes me like him even more.

but thats besides the point. still i hope he does well.

other guy i hope to see doing well would be machado. getting a top 10 spot with this kind of field and parcours would be amazing but tbh i am not very confident. every time i see him climbing he seems to be struggling =/

 

[The Hitch]

ok i was a bit harsh on top 10 fodder but i was just trying to make a point, anyway remember that for many people cough D_T cough nibali is the guy who got carried by basso into a podium spot in the giro and that only won the vuelta cus anton crashed and the field was weak. thats why i think he has to prove himself. tbh i have always been a fan of nibali and seeing him ditch the tour to focus on other GT's for a second year (ya he was planing on doing the tour last year and was forced into doing the giro but still could have ridden the tour anyway but prefered to try to win the vuelta instead of just being another one in the tour) and he focusing on the monuments(cept cobbles ofc) makes me like him even more.

but thats besides the point. still i hope he does well.

other guy i hope to see doing well would be machado. getting a top 10 spot with this kind of field and parcours would be amazing but tbh i am not very confident. every time i see him climbing he seems to be struggling =/

Well to be fair, Nibali was carried to the podium by Basso (well liquigas definately, ) and he probably would have struggled to beat Anton had Igor not crashed.

Machado could have got a podium at last years Vuelta but funnily top 10 at this years Giro is far harder.

I mean for starters i believe there are about 7 guys in there who have won gts ( COntador, Menchov, Nibali, Sastre, Di Luca, and Garzelli and Principe who can be discounted).
Then theres proven gt challengers like Purito, Scarponi, Anton, Rujano all of whom have won major mountain stages from the pack.

Thats 9 names who should beat Machado.

And thats before we look at top cyclists who could potentially challenge, Cunego, Pozzovivio, whoever Garmin bring, Gadret, Tondo, Lofqwist, Kreuziger, Duarte, Blanco etc.

I dont see a point in riding this to be honest. And im not talking just about Machado. Seriously any cyclist who wants to try a grand tour, including those mentioned, should if they can just leave the Giro for another year.

btw, wasnt conti supposed to confirm last week that hes doing the Giro or something?

 

[Parrulo]

Well to be fair, Nibali was carried to the podium by Basso (well liquigas definately, ) and he probably would have struggled to beat Anton had Igor not crashed.

Machado could have got a podium at last years Vuelta but funnily top 10 at this years Giro is far harder.

I mean for starters i believe there are about 7 guys in there who have won gts ( COntador, Menchov, Nibali, Sastre, Di Luca, and Garzelli and Principe who can be discounted).
Then theres proven gt challengers like Purito, Scarponi, Anton, Rujano all of whom have won major mountain stages from the pack.

Thats 9 names who should beat Machado.

And thats before we look at top cyclists who could potentially challenge, Cunego, Pozzovivio, whoever Garmin bring, Gadret, Tondo, Lofqwist, Kreuziger, Duarte, Blanco etc.

I dont see a point in riding this to be honest. And im not talking just about Machado. Seriously any cyclist who wants to try a grand tour, including those mentioned, should if they can just leave the Giro for another year.

btw, wasnt conti supposed to confirm last week that hes doing the Giro or something?

cunego won't ride the giro this year iirc. but besides that you are 100% right. it will be very hard for him to get a top 10. still that doesn't mean he should quit. if he does well at this giro and vuelta (the hog said he wil co-lead with kloden) and janez doesn't has a great tour he could be the absolute team leader next year (if the team still exists ofc)

oh and i read, last week i think on the cyclingnews main page, that contador told zomegman he would ride the giro this year last year before the tour. if this is true major props to him.

 

[Ryaguas]

(...Principe who can be discounted)

...Cunego...

Il Giro will be just for Michelle! They dont want a conflict of interest! hahaha
nah seriously... Il Principe already learned that He is not made for GTs now He'll focus in Ardennes - Lombardia and stage chasing in Le Tour...

oh and i read, last week i think on the cyclingnews main page, that contador told zomegman he would ride the giro this year last year before the tour. if this is true major props to him.

Yep that's true! I still remember that because I was pretty excited about it... that was the same article where He said that one year He would skip Le Tour to go for another double Giro - Vuelta! He was explaining that He is not a Tour freak and wants to show the same respect to the other GTs!

 

[Ryaguas]

Any other rider or team like Liquigas and Astana has been doing recon to some Giro stages??

Nibali has been doing A LOT of Recon...
Astana were like 5 o 8 days in Etna tho...
The Great one will go to recon 3 or 4 stages after Castilla y Leon tho... avec Dani and Jesus...
mmmm Geox? They haven't move from spain...
Androni? Too busy winning
SKY? They have only cobbles right now in their heads...
Lampre? nothing...
Purito and Di Luca? nothing tho... no time for recon...

Any thoughts about the importance of Recon for Il Giro?

 

[Eshnar]

Any thoughts about the importance of Recon for Il Giro?

It could be a (small) advantage, imho.
If I were a rider, i would definitely recon Crostis and the whole stages to Orvieto and Castelfidardo, at least. Those are the stages that do need a recon.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

serpa posted a photo on facebook of him in the snow on sestrieres so seems they are exploring the stages as well in giro 2011 right now. they are 100% set on winning the giro and nothing else

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Though this looks like a very deep field, we can count on a few people crashing, dropping time here and there, not having form and dropping time to ride for stage wins. If I was Tiago Machado, I'd look to hang on for a while, but if I don't have it one day, come in with the autobus and go stagehunting in week 3. Don't worry about a GC position around 40th, that doesn't matter. Whose 2009 Tour do you remember, Pellizotti (37th), Egoi Martínez (44th) and Rigoberto Urán (52nd)? Or Vladimir Karpets (13th), Stéphane Goubert (16th) and Christian Knees (21st)?

Another name that hasn't been mentioned by anybody yet is Marzio Bruseghin. He does tend to be thought of as a TT-centric GC rider and he is 36 years old now, but he tends to do well on multi-climb stages as he's a true diesel, and he came 3rd in 2008, on a very, very tough route and with both the riders that beat him now discredited. He crashed out of the Giro in Holland last year, and was sitting in the Vuelta's top 10 until getting involved in Antón's crash and losing a bunch of time. He could well manage a top 10 position, though I wouldn't consider him a threat to realistically get back onto the podium.

 

[roundabout]

Dan Martin isn't riding the Giro

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2011/0401/1224293539811.html

 

[taiwan]

Many of the Giro contenders have been remarkably quiet so far. I guess this is deliberate. Are people like Scarponi and Contador, who have been quite active, going to have difficulties with fatigue? Like Evans and Vino may have done last year. Yes, I know it's Contador I'm talking about.

 

[Ryaguas]

Many of the Giro contenders have been remarkably quiet so far. I guess this is deliberate. Are people like Scarponi and Contador, who have been quite active, going to have difficulties with fatigue? Like Evans and Vino may have done last year. Yes, I know it's Contador I'm talking about.

Well... Contador was just at 70% in Catalunya and is not racing PV but He's racing Castilla y Leon then will be FW and no LBL so... No fatigue from my PoV... for Michelle the same... also Contador has been winning without going even closer to "yellow"...