Off season. We need some Giro 2011 discussion.

[profff]

Not as funny though as using Bruseghin as evidence of a strong Giro field. You can underrate Evans all you want, he is a very strong rider, a very strong climber, and by every objective measure he's stronger than both Bruseghin and Pellizotti.

cadel evans palmares is bigger than palmares of pelli and bruse added together.

giro is often more interesting than the boring tour.
aniway, the tour field is always better than the giro one.

the tour is the most important race of the year.
all the riders in the world want to figure well in the tour.
the team , except maybe the italian teams, select the best riders to run the tour at their best


the giro has a better road,it is often more fun to watch , but the tour is simply the tour

if you do not believe me, ask the riders

 

[El Pistolero]

Not as funny though as using Bruseghin as evidence of a strong Giro field. You can underrate Evans all you want, he is a very strong rider, a very strong climber, and by every objective measure he's stronger than both Bruseghin and Pellizotti.

I'm not using Brushegin as evidence. You're comparing him to Sastre and completely ignore Contador and Ricco

Which shows how weak the Tour was that year.

I'm not underrating Cadel Evans. He just ain't better than Ricco or Contador.

 

[theyoungest]

I'm not using Brushegin as evidence. You're comparing him to Sastre and completely ignore Contador and Ricco

Which shows how weak the Tour was that year.

Reading is an art. I said that apart from Contador, the Giro field was weak. And I'm leaving doped-to-the-gills Ricco out of the equation, simply because I still don't know what the guy can actually do in a GT without a healthy dose of CERA. Just like Bernhard Kohl.

edit: and I just realized that this discussion was in fact about Ricco, about how he came 2nd in a Giro with immensely strong competition. So it's only fair to exclude Ricco, because he can't race himself.

 

[El Pistolero]

Reading is an art. I said that apart from Contador, the Giro field was weak. And I'm leaving doped-to-the-gills Ricco out of the equation, simply because I still don't know what the guy can actually do in a GT without a healthy dose of CERA. Just like Bernhard Kohl.

edit: and I just realized that this discussion was in fact about Ricco, about how he came 2nd in a Giro with immensely strong competition. So it's only fair to exclude Ricco, because he can't race himself.

Not weaker than the Tour top 10.

Doped or not, that's what they had to ride against.

So we're going to leave out anyone now because we don't know what they can do clean? None of those guys are clean.

I'll make it simple:

To win the Giro you had to beat Contador that year.
To win the Tour you had to beat Sastre that year.

Which one is harder to beat?

 

[The Hitch]

I agree that we should leave doping out of the discussion like we do in many such discussion because with the role that doping has had on cycling over the last decades, its a slipery slope to exclude some riders and inclued other.

Not weaker than the Tour top 10.

I wouldnt go that far. That years tdf top 10 had 2 of the great riders of our generation in 7th and 9th, Belmonte and Gonzalez. It also had Frank Schleck up there. Then again, the Giro had Di Luca.

To win the Giro you had to beat Contador that year.
To win the Tour you had to beat Sastre that year.

Which one is harder to beat?

Based on previous record, I will be surprised if Youngest even bothers to respond to this.

 

[theyoungest]

Based on previous record, I will be surprised if Youngest even bothers to respond to this.

Oh I will, just because it's so easy

So here it is: the Giro field was weak, apart from Contador. Jesus H. Christ, learn to read! Ricco didn't beat Contador, now did he?

 

[El Pistolero]

Oh I will, just because it's so easy

So here it is: the Giro field was weak, apart from Contador. Jesus H. Christ, learn to read! Ricco didn't beat Contador, now did he?

He did beat Contador on most mountain stages. If not all.

Learn to watch a race

Giro field still was not weak apart from Contador. If so, then Menchov would have been second. Or Di Luca. Or Pellizotti.

 

[theyoungest]

He did beat Contador on most mountain stages. If not all.

Learn to watch a race

Giro field still was not weak apart from Contador. If so, then Menchov would have been second.

This was the famous "Contador was lying on the beach just a week before and still won it"-Giro. That's not ususally how you go about winning GTs. And Menchov was in Tour prep mode.

 

[El Pistolero]

This was the famous "Contador was lying on the beach just a week before and still won it"-Giro. That's not ususally how you go about winning GTs. And Menchov was in Tour prep mode.

Well, I'm not saying Ricco is better than Contador now was I?
Menchov's form wasn't better during the Tour. He raced like he always does. Hardly noticeable.

And Contador is not your usual cyclist. He's the best of his generation.

 

[deValtos]

Can I change my vote to Contador ?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-could-target-all-three-grand-tours-if-cleared

 

[Christian]

I'm thinking Nibali, but I'm really excited to see Kreuziger as a GT leader. I hope he can make top-5 or even podium

 

[The Hitch]

Can I change my vote to Contador ?
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/contador-could-target-all-three-grand-tours-if-cleared

So you want to change your vote to
Other (Big gt name) or Other ( Surprise winner)


But we hear this "multiple grand tours" song in the off season a lot.

Id be surprised if Contador did 2 gts yet alone all 3.

Unless part of the get off deal is that Contador "feels a bit tired" before the tour, and does giro Vuelta instead. which would be cool if not for the fact that it would probably ruin both those gts for 2011

The Giro especially looks so brilliantly poised, no king but several pretenders (see names listed above). Having the greatest gt rider of his generation come in would ruin it imo.

 

[El Pistolero]

So you want to change your vote to
Other (Big gt name) or Other ( Surprise winner)


But we hear this "multiple grand tours" song in the off season a lot.

Id be surprised if Contador did 2 gts yet alone all 3.

Unless part of the get off deal is that Contador "feels a bit tired" before the tour, and does giro Vuelta instead. which would be cool if not for the fact that it would probably ruin both those gts for 2011

The Giro especially looks so brilliantly poised, no king but several pretenders (see names listed above). Having the greatest gt rider of his generation come in would ruin it imo.

Contador entering the Giro and Vuelta in 2008 didn't ruin those GTs. If anything, he's way more exciting there than at the Tour.

 

[The Hitch]

Contador entering the Giro and Vuelta in 2008 didn't ruin those GTs. If anything, he's way more exciting there than at the Tour.

I dont care how exciting contador is.

I would much rather watch Scarponi vs Nibali vs Ricco vs Di Luca vs Anton vs Rujano vs wildcards, where they are all very evenly poised and you have no idea whos gonna win.

If Contador comes in, then even if hes not on super form he will be the favourite, but more importantly his presence will be there so the whole race will be ridden differently.

And if he is on good form, then it just means that that epic fight we had in store for a grand tour is going to instead be for the podium which again makes it totaly different.

You just dont see Arroyo superperformances on the Kronplatz and wonderdescents on the mortirolo when its for 3rd place.

 

[El Pistolero]

I dont care how exciting contador is.

I would much rather watch Scarponi vs Nibali vs Ricco vs Di Luca vs Anton vs Rujano vs wildcards, where they are all very evenly poised and you have no idea whos gonna win.

If Contador comes in, then even if hes not on super form he will be the favourite, but more importantly his presence will be there so the whole race will be ridden differently.

And if he is on good form, then it just means that that epic fight we had in store for a grand tour is going to instead be for the podium which again makes it totaly different.

You just dont see Arroyo superperformances on the Kronplatz and wonderdescents on the mortirolo when its for 3rd place.

I sure as hell didn't know who was going to win the Giro in 2008. Super exciting GT. One of the best this decade.

And the Vuelta was pretty exciting till the last time trial as well. If it was any longer Contador would have probably lost to Leipheimer. Sure as hell beat this year's Vuelta. 2009 Vuelta was pretty boring too.

 

[The Hitch]

I sure as hell didn't know who was going to win the Giro in 2008. Super exciting GT. One of the best this decade.

And the Vuelta was pretty exciting till the last time trial as well. If it was any longer Contador would have probably lost to Leipheimer. Sure as hell beat this year's Vuelta. 2009 Vuelta was pretty boring too.

Still, just because it was good then it will be

In 2008 Contador was a 1 time TDF winner based on a dq.

Now he is the greatest gt rider of his time.

ANd the Giro next year is SO brilliantly poised, it could be so close, and Contadors presence could harm that, especially if hes on good form.

On the other hand this is all fantasy. Have people forgotten the Giro route. Even if you made epo legal just for him he still wouldnt be able to win the Tour after THAT Giro.

 

[El Pistolero]

Still, just because it was good then it will be

In 2008 Contador was a 1 time TDF winner based on a dq.

Now he is the greatest gt rider of his time.

ANd the Giro next year is SO brilliantly poised, it could be so close, and Contadors presence could harm that, especially if hes on good form.

On the other hand this is all fantasy. Have people forgotten the Giro route. Even if you made epo legal just for him he still wouldnt be able to win the Tour after THAT Giro.

If Andy crashes out I can see him doing it

But then again, Contador is not unbeatable. Although he hasn't been beaten a lot when he was on decent form(not counting the Paris-Nice 2009 mistake )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiuHwNHM5L0&feature=related
^ Cool example of Contador getting owned though. Why this race isn't 2.HC already is beyond me.

 

[The Hitch]

With Fuji now officialy announced, Monte Zoncolan could be one of the great all time stages.

Who the ***k will win

Im guessing not Menchov. Id personaly rule out nibali and Krezuiger too.

But we have Ricco vs Anton vs Rujano vs Scarponi vs maybe Purito and maybe Di Luca.

I think Ricco Ricardo is the favourite for that stage, though not neccesarily for the overall.

 

[taiwan]

With Fuji now officialy announced...

Really? Cool.

 

[jens_attacks]

With Fuji now officialy announced, Monte Zoncolan could be one of the great all time stages.

Who the ***k will win

Im guessing not Menchov. Id personaly rule out nibali and Krezuiger too.

But we have Ricco vs Anton vs Rujano vs Scarponi vs maybe Purito and maybe Di Luca.

I think Ricco Ricardo is the favourite for that stage, though not neccesarily for the overall.

oh man it's very hard to guess,hell knows... but yeah i agree one of these lightest climbers will win.definitely not a breakaway guy.can't even pick one,i like them all.

 

[The Hitch]

Really? Cool.

Thats Igor "Fuji" Anton not Geox "Fuji" TMC

 

[Ferminal]

Will be interesting to see Zoncolan this year. Well, I guess it's interesting every year by default... If Menchov and Scarponi are still there after 2km, will Ricco/Anton/Rujano attack, how will the others react?

Basso vs Cuddles was spectacular, but it might be a different dynamic in 2011.

15 weeks to go?

 

[Jan the Man]

Favourites for Zoncolan-

Anton
Ricco
Pozzovivo
Scarponi
Rujano
Sella

Favourites for the Giro

As above and add-

Nibali
Kreuziger
Sastre or Menchov

 

[Barrus]

In my mind Kreuziger has a snowball's chance in hell to win the giro. If he does win by some freak accident I will ban myself for a month, that sure I am of that

 

[taiwan]

Thats Igor "Fuji" Anton not Geox "Fuji" TMC

Silly me. Never heard that nickname before.