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Official 1 year ban

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Jun 21, 2010
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For those looking for justice in this case, be patient. The 1-year joke will be appealed and swapped for a standard 2-year "tainted steak" fare. And for El Pistolero, it might be time to swap identities. Being Jesus (Hernandez) might be fun. Imagine all the power you'd have.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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sniper said:
latest news is AC's team will indeed appeal and play the Gasquet-card:

http://de.eurosport.yahoo.com/31012011/73/contador-kuss-theorie.html
well aware that journos in their rush to re-print (with few exceptions) typically dont get the technical details right, i went back to the original el mundo article written by ramos, a contador lawyer.

sure enough, if google was a friend :))), i found interesting tad bits missed by virtually all outlets but to my knowledge confirmed for the first time by a contador lawyer...among them:

-the uci's package to rfec contained analysis of 4 possible routes of how clen got into his system
-the uci delay with passing the package to rfec had to do with the evaluation of each of the 4 routes by world's (wada ?) experts
- ramos's transparent allusion (not a direct mention !) that a blood transfusion possibility was among the possibilities evaluated by the uci/wada('haematologists were among the experts')
- spanish national anti-doping agency ran a similar evaluation on rfec's request, not clear of the results
-contador's strategy will be to prove that 3 of 4 possibilities are less likely than meat contamination.

i found it curious there was no mention of a hair test...
 
Oct 16, 2010
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python said:
well aware that journos in their rush to re-print (with few exceptions) typically dont get the technical details right, i went back to the original el mundo article written by ramos, a contador lawyer.

sure enough, if google was a friend :))), i found interesting tad bits missed by virtually all outlets but to my knowledge confirmed for the first time by a contador lawyer...among them:

-the uci's package to rfec contained analysis of 4 possible routes of how clen got into his system
-the uci delay with passing the package to rfec had to do with the evaluation of each of the 4 routes by world's (wada ?) experts
- ramos's transparent allusion (not a direct mention !) that a blood transfusion possibility was among the possibilities evaluated by the uci/wada('haematologists were among the experts')
- spanish national anti-doping agency ran a similar evaluation on rfec's request, not clear of the results
-contador's strategy will be to prove that 3 of 4 possibilities are less likely than meat contamination.

i found it curious there was no mention of a hair test...
interesting.

Anyway, David Etxebarría's tweet to AC ("don't SHOUT when you were SILENT before") has been taken over by some newsagencies:

http://www.cyclenation.co.za/news/international-news/item/3329-David-Etxebarria-critical-of-Contador\'s-reaction-to-one-year-ban

It was also discussed in the German Süddeutsche Zeitung, yesterday.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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sniper said:
snip.......

It was also discussed in the German Süddeutsche Zeitung, yesterday.
i read the sz article right away after it was printed and found no significance news or opinions there.

but this ramos article alluding to a possibility of a defence based on excluding a bplood transfusion possibility promisses to be verrrrry interestingggggg :D

i savour a moment when contador's blood passport values reach cas a we will be treated to their rigorous legal-scientific examination as to why they are 'indicative' (or not) and if the alleged plasticizer test was anything worth the thunder it created.

interesting times ahead !
 
Oct 16, 2010
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python said:
i read the sz article right away after it was printed and found no significance news or opinions there.

but this ramos article alluding to a possibility of a defence based on excluding a bplood transfusion possibility promisses to be verrrrry interestingggggg :D

i savour a moment when contador's blood passport values reach cas a we will be treated to their rigorous legal-scientific examination as to why they are 'indicative' (or not) and if the alleged plasticizer test was anything worth the thunder it created.

interesting times ahead !
true,
Still, they highlighted the fact that Etxebarría was on the same Liberty Seguros team when OP unfolded. Etxebarría and others got punished, and AC remained silent.
Also, the fact that this tweet got picked up by one of Germany's largest newspapers is interesting. Just wonder if we may hear more from Etxebarría if Spanish journalists pick up the story and decide to ask him directly.

EDIT: I see cyclingnews also picked up on it yesterday:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/david-etxebarria-critical-of-contadors-reaction-to-one-year-ban
 
May 12, 2010
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sniper said:
true,
Still, they highlighted the fact that Etxebarría was on the same Liberty Seguros team when OP unfolded. Etxebarría and others got punished, and AC remained silent.
Also, the fact that this tweet got picked up by one of Germany's largest newspapers is interesting. Just wonder if we may hear more from Etxebarría if Spanish journalists pick up the story and decide to ask him directly.

EDIT: I see cyclingnews also picked up on it yesterday:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/david-etxebarria-critical-of-contadors-reaction-to-one-year-ban
Wow, thanks, I completely missed that. I always think this is one of the more interesting aspects of doping, basically every ex-teammate of Contador has got a kill switch, and they can destroy Contador's reputation whenever they choose, the only problem is that they have to destroy their own reputation in the proces. You just have to get some one desperate enough so they've got nothing left to lose...
 
Oct 16, 2010
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hrotha said:
One thing I haven't seen any report about the incident focusing on is the fact that David addresses Contador as "AC" in his tweets. Innocent abbreviation? Intentional message?
...spot on...
 
Jan 27, 2011
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No one had so much profit from the Rasmussen thing as AC. Doubt it is 'that' innocent, no other AC is really mad at the system now either.

Its too accurate to be not intentional.
 
python said:
these are correct numbers as i recall them. and they are very significant for contador's contamination theory because in at least two cases the elapsed time between alluded to timing of food administration and a timing of giving the positive sample was longer than in contador’s case.

For ex, german scientists estimated that botcharov’s sample that contained more clen than contador’s was given 3-5 days before the fateful dinner in china whereas contador was negative for clen a night before the positive.
GJB123 said:
I am afraid I do not quite understand what you mean. I guess you mean that the positive in other cases was 3-5 days after the fatefull dinner instaed of before. Because if was positive before eating the dinner, me thinks he would really have a problem. ;)

Does this different time frame imply that Contador got the Clen into his system in another way or at another time or both? Was Botcharov also tested in the time frame between eating the meal and testing positive?

Regards
GJ

Python, I see you are back online in this thread. A number of pages back you had a very interestng post that I am trying to understand better.

Regards
GJ
 
Jun 22, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
He has nothing to lose. A one year ban back dating from 24th august is the same as a 2 year ban. Not appealing would be a declaration of him being a doper. WADA would have appealed anyway, he just takes the initiative now. Now he can keep up the "I'm really innocent" act for the media.

He's not stupid hence he appealed before WADA could appeal.
i think it's pretty stupid actually. if backdated on aug 24 and suspended 2 years wouldn't he miss a 3rd TdF too? truthfully, the dates have some big consequences but he's flirting with long term disaster in other ways and i think it's stupid for other reasons. a 1 year ban is the best scenario he could have ever hoped for. he can publicly twist and spin the RFEC decision to mean they essentially accepted his contamination defense and he doesn't think an appeal will be successful for obvious reasons of strict liability even tho he is innocent. it would have forced WADA to appeal and would have appeared as though they are hammering him unnecessarily. he would have been positioned as the victim where now he is positioned as throwing a temper tantrum. his PR sucks. he's practically following the landis playbook every step of the way and we know how that turned out.
 
Jul 16, 2010
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lean said:
i think it's pretty stupid actually. a 1 year ban is the best scenario he could have ever hoped for. he can publicly twist and spin the RFEC decision to mean they essentially accepted his contamination defense and he doesn't think an appeal will be successful for obvious reasons of strict liability even tho he is innocent. it would have forced WADA to appeal and would have appeared as though they are hammering him unnecessarily. he would have been positioned as the victim where now he is positioned as throwing a temper tantrum. his PR sucks. he's practically following the landis playbook every step of the way and we know how that turned out.
Landis tested positive for huge amounts of testosteron. Not comparable.
 
Jun 22, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
Landis tested positive for huge amounts of testosteron. Not comparable.
not comparable? if you say so.

regardless, you don't think it would have been smarter to force the UCI/WADA to appeal?
 
Sep 25, 2009
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GJB123 said:
Python, I see you are back online in this thread. A number of pages back you had a very interestng post that I am trying to understand better.

Regards
GJ
from de boers paper (p. 7/11) we get that contador (allegedly) ate the contaminated steak some short time AFTER he gave a clen-negative urine sample - both events occurring within hours on 20 july. The positive sample was given next day, on 21 july. according to de boer‘s pharmacokinetic model, this jives well with clenbuterol’s half life, the timing of the meat consumption, and the extremely sensitive instrumentation applied to detect the minute amounts.

in ovcharov’s acquitted case, as I stated earlier, the elapsed time was estimated to be much longer (3-5 days) and the concentration found was still higher than in contador. supposedly, this fact reinforces de boer theory that:

(i) contador, like the other athletes with minute doses, could not feel his intoxication and therefore was unaware of contamination ('unwitting' doping is not 'reasonable and fair')
(ii) an extremely sensitive instrumentation is capable of picking up clen long after the act of eating even a ‘legally’ contaminated meat. recall, wada does not recognize clen threshold but de boer arguesclen can be legally found in regulated substances that are legal in europe up to a certain limit (EU's threshold for clen - mrl - is 0.1microgram per 1 kg of meat. for ex a 500kg of beef can legally contain 50micrograms of clen - enough to be detected by the the cologne lab after a day or two).


of cause, the blood transfusion theory can not be excluded by these considerations. but together with a ‘spotless’ blood passport it may. ramos hints they’ll use blood passport. then, i ask ,why rfec did not acquit him ?

something is missing…
 
lean said:
not comparable? if you say so.

regardless, you don't think it would have been smarter to force the UCI/WADA to appeal?
I think from a PR-point of view it is a case of f****d if you and f****d if you don't. If he doesn't appeal the AC-haters will no doubt see that as an admission of guilt and him taking the "easy" way out. If he does appeal, the AC-haters say he is doing a "Landis" and throing a temper tantrum. He can't win either way.

And, just for the sake of argument, assume he didn't knowingly use clen (he might have been doped to the gills or not, but assume he didn't use clen). If he is truly innocent of that, why should he accept a punishment? I can imagine that rationally it might be best for him to accept the reduced ban, but if you are indeed innocent, that becomes a giant leap of acceptance not easily made by most.

Regards
GJ
 
Aug 1, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
Landis tested positive for huge amounts of testosteron. Not comparable.
No, he did not; the amounts were well within normal. The tests were deemed to show that there were metabolites of testosterone derived from plants, therefore he had taken artificial testosterone.

-dB
 
Aug 1, 2009
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python said:
of cause, the blood transfusion theory can not be excluded by these considerations. but together with a ‘spotless’ blood passport it may. ramos hints they’ll use blood passport. then, i ask ,why rfec did not acquit him ?

something is missing…
RFEC didn't think they could get away with an acquittal? It's all politics, not science. The science is window dressing.

It's curious to see Python taking paths similar to ones that have been trod in defense of Landis, while slagging Landis elsewhere.

-dB
 
Mar 17, 2009
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El Pistolero said:
Landis tested positive for huge amounts of testosteron. Not comparable.
Landis had a skewed Test/Epitest ratio. Both steroids are supposed to be in the body, although when they looked closer it turned out to be exogenous in origin.

Contador had a substance that has no place in the body at any level. Full stop.
 
Sep 25, 2009
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dbrower said:
RFEC didn't think they could get away with an acquittal? It's all politics, not science. The science is window dressing.

It's curious to see Python taking paths similar to ones that have been trod in defense of Landis, while slagging Landis elsewhere.

-dB
you and landis are the remotest thing on my mind when i evaluate tid bits as they become available.

unlike you who willfully defended an obvious fraud and manipulated masses of fans thru mind offending trust but varify, i look at contador evidence as it gets leaked and only share my thought process. i stated numerous times publicly here that my hunch it's likely a case of blood doping but i'd like to see more evidence. this is not contador's defence but an open-minded evaluation. don't paint people with your dirty brush.

as to landis you're again wildly off. i welcome his revelations i challenge you to find a single post were i was slagging landis. dont transfer your discredited all out defence of fraud to others.
 

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