Official Alberto Contador hearing thread

[LaFlorecita]

Reeb says "Normally I would not comment on such allegations" [source] but he does anyway. I am starting to wonder how impartial CAS-TAS can be when it inhabits, at least in Spanish terms, a very small world.

Lucas Ferrer, CAS president in 2007, said last November that he thought that WADA's position on Contador was weakened by the other clenbuterol cases [source].
<snip>

Rex Sport is affiliated with ISDE and its president is José Juan Pinto Ruiz. Founded in 2002 as a non-profit org by PRDV, Rex Sport's goal is "promoting and improving the current Sports Law and its diffusion among young lawyers." Hence the ISDE partnership it has in the concrete form of maintaining Barak's degree programme. Barak is of course a member of Rex Sport.

Of course, none of this amounts to a hill of beans, but CAS and Spanish-Israel legal worlds are certainly very small indeed.

Okay... Could you just give a short summary of all this..? *bats eyelashes*

 

[spalco]

Supposedly the decision comes this week or next, correct?

End of next week someone wrote earlier in this thread according to a spanish newspaper.

eta: sorry, I missed that it was already answered.

 

[JPM London]

Ok, I'm not an owner of a top international pro cycling team with a star rider accused of doping...

... but if I were I'd definitely find a more subtle way to influence a judge if that's what I wanted to.

Maybe - and I'm just saying maybe here - I'd choose a more anonymous way than doing something completely overt and publicised. I don't know, but I think I'd do that because I think I'd prefer that people didn't gossip about it on internet forums or risk being found out all too easily...

I think I might also go for something that was optimised to actually getting a result - I dunno - maybe something that benefited the person I tried to sway more directly. Hmmm... maybe bribing the guy himself with money instead of bribing the children of the country he happens to come from with a few bikes and pieces of wood. That way I'd also ensure he'd actually know I was trying to influence him...

But I guess I agree on the lawyer bits - it's shocking how people in the same industry know each other and especially shocking that they work internationally. I just looked at my own connections and to my horror I discovered I know the people I'm friends with on Facebook...

 

[L'arriviste]

But I guess I agree on the lawyer bits - it's shocking how people in the same industry know each other and especially shocking that they work internationally. I just looked at my own connections and to my horror I discovered I know the people I'm friends with on Facebook...

Not sure if you were taking a dig at me there, but I wasn't trying to insinuate that the Contador case is dirty, even though I recognise that my post did follow on from the Becca soundbite.

CAS makes quasi-legal decisions which affect lots of people and organisations financially, morally, and to some extent legally. So what I find interesting is that, whilst it may be true that these arbitrators demonstrate substantial qualifications, the composition of the bench that I examined - albeit a small group - was fairly contrary to my original, ignorant impression that they would be rather less close-knit.

What I noted instead was a significant concentration of people who are so interconnected as to be employing each other and engaging in business partnerships (of course unrelated to CAS proceedings), yet occupying these relatively few roles deciding disputes with a global, multidisciplinary character.

So I think there is probably enough room there for a discussion about interests and impartiality. Certainly enough for CAS people to come out before the press and say that there's no problem. Reeb needn't have said anything - as he himself pointed out - but he still felt that he had to.

 

[sniper]

Ok, I'm not an owner of a top international pro cycling team with a star rider accused of doping...

... but if I were I'd definitely find a more subtle way to influence a judge if that's what I wanted to.

Maybe - and I'm just saying maybe here - I'd choose a more anonymous way than doing something completely overt and publicised. I don't know, but I think I'd do that because I think I'd prefer that people didn't gossip about it on internet forums or risk being found out all too easily...

I think I might also go for something that was optimised to actually getting a result - I dunno - maybe something that benefited the person I tried to sway more directly. Hmmm... maybe bribing the guy himself with money instead of bribing the children of the country he happens to come from with a few bikes and pieces of wood. That way I'd also ensure he'd actually know I was trying to influence him...

Saxo Bank promoting cycling in Israel.

It'd be interesting to see whether the Israeli cycling union has recently made any donations to the Israeli CAS-judge's bankaccount.
Bribes often travel indirectly.

 

[spalco]

Let's put the pitchforks down until there's actually a ruling I'd say.

 

[JPM London]

Not sure if you were taking a dig at me there, but I wasn't trying to insinuate that the Contador case is dirty, even though I recognise that my post did follow on from the Becca soundbite.

CAS makes quasi-legal decisions which affect lots of people and organisations financially, morally, and to some extent legally. So what I find interesting is that, whilst it may be true that these arbitrators demonstrate substantial qualifications, the composition of the bench that I examined - albeit a small group - was fairly contrary to my original, ignorant impression that they would be rather less close-knit.

What I noted instead was a significant concentration of people who are so interconnected as to be employing each other and engaging in business partnerships (of course unrelated to CAS proceedings), yet occupying these relatively few roles deciding disputes with a global, multidisciplinary character.

So I think there is probably enough room there for a discussion about interests and impartiality. Certainly enough for CAS people to come out before the press and say that there's no problem. Reeb needn't have said anything - as he himself pointed out - but he still felt that he had to.

I think you're pointing to the general observation that in all walks of life people are connected and inevitably the higher up you get the connections get closer as there are fewer and fewer people available.

That observation is perfectly valid and not only when it comes to evaluating impartiality in sports justice, but also in business and politics and so on and so on... It's also an interesting point and well done for actually taking the time to join the dots.

As it just happened to fall in between the breaking-news revelations that Israelis are from Israel which is in Israel and is inhabited by Israelis, I probably over-attributed a conspiracy theme to your post

 

[Califootman]

Pot? This is kettle...

So Bjarne is trying to influence one of the CAS judges by hiring an Israeli rider, eh? Pretty darn sneaky...

But he has been outfoxed by Becca, who now holds sway over TWO members of the CAS panel! It doesn't take long to spot these ringers on Team Radio Shack Nissan Leopard Trek Mercedes Benz of (oops, strike that last one):

Cancellara, Fabian. Age: 30. Country: Switzerland. OK, so maybe he has won a few races and even a TT world championship or two (or three), but last year he was third in the TTWC. That's practically Webster's definition of WASHED UP!

Kloden, Andreas. Age: 36. Country: Germany. Again, the guy may have some palmares back in ancient times, but come on... he couldn't even beat ol' greybeard Lance at the Tour a couple years ago!

These guys would be struggling to make it on a pro-conti team, but there just HAPPENS to be room for them on Team Radio Shack Nissan Chico's Bail Bonds? Yeah, right...

Perhaps Mr. Becca should try to be just a LITTLE less obvious in his machinations.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Not sure if you were taking a dig at me there, but I wasn't trying to insinuate that the Contador case is dirty, even though I recognise that my post did follow on from the Becca soundbite.

CAS makes quasi-legal decisions which affect lots of people and organisations financially, morally, and to some extent legally. So what I find interesting is that, whilst it may be true that these arbitrators demonstrate substantial qualifications, the composition of the bench that I examined - albeit a small group - was fairly contrary to my original, ignorant impression that they would be rather less close-knit.

What I noted instead was a significant concentration of people who are so interconnected as to be employing each other and engaging in business partnerships (of course unrelated to CAS proceedings), yet occupying these relatively few roles deciding disputes with a global, multidisciplinary character.

So I think there is probably enough room there for a discussion about interests and impartiality. Certainly enough for CAS people to come out before the press and say that there's no problem. Reeb needn't have said anything - as he himself pointed out - but he still felt that he had to.

This case will be decided on the facts and the law.

Applying the law would not favour a good outcome for Contador - however, like any good rider he has a good team around him including Mike Morgan who has won cases by exposing procedural errors.

The nationality and relationship between the various members - while certainly there- will have little influence on any eventual outcome.
CAS are not a National Fed, or NADA - they have to apply the law to the case as it sets precedent and can be challenged through Swiss courts.

CAS certainly had some problems when they first started out, as they were often embroiled in legal arguments that originate from the license holders country, but in recent times their verdicts have stood up to various appeals.

 

[sniper]

This case will be decided on the facts and the law.
(...)

so you see zero possibility of a bribe (or some sort of arrangement)?

The question remains: why go training in Israel and risk bad publicity, i.e. risk that people will accuse you of bribing?

And don't tell me they didn't know the jury member is Israeli. They knew, and yet, they went to train in Israel for the first time ever.

Why not go to any one of the thousand remaining (equally or more suitable) training locations?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

so you see zero possibility of a bribe (or some sort of arrangement)?

The question remains: why go training in Israel and risk bad publicity, i.e. risk that people will accuse you of bribing?

And don't tell me they didn't know the jury member is Israeli. They knew, and yet, they went to train in Israel for the first time ever.

Why not go to any one of the thousand remaining (equally or more suitable) training locations?

As I said before - I like a good conspiracy, this isn't one.

The only person to make a connection is Becca - and this is before any verdict? There are 3 people on the panel, Bjarne needs to organise more training sessions.

 

[sniper]

As I said before - I like a good conspiracy, this isn't one.

The only person to make a connection is Becca - and this is before any verdict? There are 3 people on the panel, Bjarne needs to organise more training sessions.

Either you accuse them of bribery or of stupidity.
The bad smell is there and could have been avoided easily.

Also, we've learned from cycling that there is nothing conspirational about a good old cover up or a bribery.

 

[Cimber]

So Bjarne is trying to influence one of the CAS judges by hiring an Israeli rider, eh? Pretty darn sneaky...

But he has been outfoxed by Becca, who now holds sway over TWO members of the CAS panel! It doesn't take long to spot these ringers on Team Radio Shack Nissan Leopard Trek Mercedes Benz of (oops, strike that last one):

Cancellara, Fabian. Age: 30. Country: Switzerland. OK, so maybe he has won a few races and even a TT world championship or two (or three), but last year he was third in the TTWC. That's practically Webster's definition of WASHED UP!

Kloden, Andreas. Age: 36. Country: Germany. Again, the guy may have some palmares back in ancient times, but come on... he couldn't even beat ol' greybeard Lance at the Tour a couple years ago!

These guys would be struggling to make it on a pro-conti team, but there just HAPPENS to be room for them on Team Radio Shack Nissan Chico's Bail Bonds? Yeah, right...

Perhaps Mr. Becca should try to be just a LITTLE less obvious in his machinations.

lol pure win

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Either you accuse them of bribery or of stupidity.
The bad smell is there and could have been avoided easily.

Also, we've learned from cycling that there is nothing conspirational about a good old cover up or a bribery.

The rest of the World does not operate on cyclings corrupt principles, thankfully.

 

[Benotti69]

The rest of the World does not operate on cyclings corrupt principles, thankfully.

Except FIFA, IOC, FIA...........

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

The rest of the World does not operate on cyclings corrupt principles, thankfully.

Really? Come visit us here in the States. We'll show you corruption.

 

[ferryman]

Reeb says "Normally I would not comment on such allegations" [source] but he does anyway. I am starting to wonder how impartial CAS-TAS can be when it inhabits, at least in Spanish terms, a very small world.

Lucas Ferrer, CAS president in 2007, said last November that he thought that WADA's position on Contador was weakened by the other clenbuterol cases [source].

In a sidebar to that interview, he goes on to say that chairman of the Contador case Efraim Barak is a meticulous type, has doping experience and, most importantly, will act without prejudice [source].

Ferrer should probably know. He's an Associate Lawyer at Barcelona law firm Pinto Ruiz Del Valle, one of Spain's biggest law firms.

One of the senior partners at PRDV is José Juan Pintó Sala, also a CAS arbitrator.

PRDV is part of the Pannone Law Group, an association of regional law firms throughout the world whose Israeli associate is Mirkin & Co. That "Co." consists of, among others, a certain Efraim Barak. In addition to his work as a CAS arbitrator, Barak seems to be a very busy man.

The Instituto Superior de Derecho y Economía (ISDE) in Madrid is a private law school. The Vice-Chancellor and a Director of the ISDE share the familiar family name "Pintó Sala", while the Chancellor himself is one José Juan Pinto Ruiz, who is also on the Advisory Board. He's the 'PR' in PRDV. Efraim Barak is a Professor on ISDE's Masters programme in International Sports Law.

That same Advisory Board also counts lawyers from the Barcelona law firm Roca Junyent. Roca Junyent is the law firm of Jean-Louis Dupont, who currently represents Alberto Contador.

There are also two people on the ISDE Advisory Board from the firm legal and tax firm Garrigues, Spain's biggest law firm. Garrigues' "Special Representative of International Relations" is José Maria Alonso Puig, who is also a CAS arbitrator.

A little organisation called Rex Sport Asociación de Asesores del Deporte, a sports tax advisory organisation based in Barcelona, is listed either as a shareholder of, or 'having an agreement' with Garrigues.

Rex Sport is affiliated with ISDE and its president is José Juan Pinto Ruiz. Founded in 2002 as a non-profit org by PRDV, Rex Sport's goal is "promoting and improving the current Sports Law and its diffusion among young lawyers." Hence the ISDE partnership it has in the concrete form of maintaining Barak's degree programme. Barak is of course a member of Rex Sport.

Of course, none of this amounts to a hill of beans, but CAS and Spanish-Israel legal worlds are certainly very small indeed.

Thank you for posting this. Certainly food for thought Great research, selflessly shared. Cheers bud

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Except FIFA, IOC, FIA...........

Really? Come visit us here in the States. We'll show you corruption.

FIFA, IOC, FIA... even the USA is not the rest of the world.

 

[BroDeal]

so you see zero possibility of a bribe (or some sort of arrangement)?

The question remains: why go training in Israel and risk bad publicity, i.e. risk that people will accuse you of bribing?

And don't tell me they didn't know the jury member is Israeli. They knew, and yet, they went to train in Israel for the first time ever.

Why not go to any one of the thousand remaining (equally or more suitable) training locations?

Who knew that the Protocols of Zion extended to CAS?

 

[Polish]

The rest of the World does not operate on cyclings corrupt principles, thankfully.

The World would be a MUCH better place if its current level of corruption was replaced with cyclings corruption. StrongArm Dictators using FingerBangs.

 

[Siriuscat]

Except FIFA, IOC, FIA...........

Those three organisations are WAY ahead of cycling in terms of corruption, cycling is a beginner compared to them

 

[Publicus]

Who knew that the Protocols of Zion extended to CAS?

Brodeal for the win!

 

[The Hitch]

I'm not saying Becca aint a huge hypocrit.
but one way or the other, the Israel training camp looks bad with the CAS decision pending.
Also, albeit indirectly, his criticism constitutes a small crack in the omerta-wall, which we should all encourage.

Its no crack in the omerta wall. First of all he doesn't know anything or have any proof. Second of all he isnt admitting to anything himself but talking about others, opponents, trying to eliminate opponents. Since he doesnt know anything it could also be false accusations.

By that logic Lance is breaking omerta if he says that Ricco has doped.

Its like if the leader of the Camorah phoned the Italian news and started crying on air that the Ndrangheta beat them to the Colombian connection.

 

[ggusta]

Ok, I'm not an owner of a top international pro cycling team with a star rider accused of doping...

... but if I were I'd definitely find a more subtle way to influence a judge if that's what I wanted to.

Maybe - and I'm just saying maybe here - I'd choose a more anonymous way than doing something completely overt and publicised. I don't know, but I think I'd do that because I think I'd prefer that people didn't gossip about it on internet forums or risk being found out all too easily...

I think I might also go for something that was optimised to actually getting a result - I dunno - maybe something that benefited the person I tried to sway more directly. Hmmm... maybe bribing the guy himself with money instead of bribing the children of the country he happens to come from with a few bikes and pieces of wood. That way I'd also ensure he'd actually know I was trying to influence him...

But I guess I agree on the lawyer bits - it's shocking how people in the same industry know each other and especially shocking that they work internationally. I just looked at my own connections and to my horror I discovered I know the people I'm friends with on Facebook...

It was one of the more ham fisted efforts at trying to sway a jury member anyone's ever seen. Just weak and blatant. I am hoping things go well for Alberto because I am a huge fan, but he needs to get at least a couple months just for agreeing to indulge in that degree of tackiness. tsk tsk tsk.

 

[pig pen]

Why not? Excellent weather, good roads, first-world infrastructure and there are even some decent hills I think. Without the whole political/security baggage Israel would be as good a place for a winter camp as any other imo.

For Riis to choose Israel was an odd choice, considering the controversy around Contadors' case and the world political view in the Arab world on Israel. Then again Riis has never been afraid to take chances.
I like that Saxo chose Israel, but considering Albertos' situation, it may have been bad timing by Riis.