official Ilnur Zakarin thread

[SkyTears]

Polls don't work ?

Anyway, here is the pool :

When Zakarin will get the 2nd doping positive and a life ban :

a) until the end of the Giro 2015
b) until the end of 2015
c) 2016
d) after 2016
e) never

i vote for b) until the end of 2015

And now for the discussion: all good and nice, good results in his youths except the elephant in the room: he is a caught doper, flourishing in a shaddy team, in a period (first half of the 2015) when the future of Katusha is decided.

 

[Netserk]

The talented body double.

 

[the sceptic]

as long as Makarov and Cookson are buddies I'll say never.

 

[DBotero]

Re:

as long as Makarov and Cookson are buddies I'll say never.

True,i think it will be a really big hit for the new young"clean cycling generation"if they go for him.Interesting that he was beaten today by one of those assumed clean young guys.

 

[rm7]

I guess Katusha needed a new Russian superstar. Zakarin is some kind of underground project in Russia, where they have placed him in several machines and stuff like that. Like you see in cartoons, those machines where they're in water for 1 week and then wake up with new powers.

 

[Mr.White]

Re:

I guess Katusha needed a new Russian superstar. Zakarin is some kind of underground project in Russia, where they have placed him in several machines and stuff like that. Like you see in cartoons, those machines where they're in water for 1 week and then wake up with new powers.

Yeah, just like Froome, only Zakarin is actually talented

 

[burning]

Re: Re:

I guess Katusha needed a new Russian superstar. Zakarin is some kind of underground project in Russia, where they have placed him in several machines and stuff like that. Like you see in cartoons, those machines where they're in water for 1 week and then wake up with new powers.

Yeah, just like Froome, only Zakarin is actually talented

Don't know, looks like he's been doped since he was 13 or something like that.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

The new clean generation has another poster boy. He obviously has learnt from his mistakes and has gone clean proving bans have a rehabilitating effect. Bring on more young clean riders.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

When a Frenchman wins, everyone is cleans.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

The new clean generation has another poster boy. He obviously has learnt from his mistakes and has gone clean proving bans have a rehabilitating effect. Bring on more young clean riders.

Actually I don't think the hypocrites will ever accept anyone who has served a doping ban. Its very clear in much of what they say.

They have a fascistic idea of sport as a place filled by an ubermensch of people who combine the qualities of masochistic hard work with unquestioned morality. They have to believe their champions are not just genetically gifted, but that they work harder than everyone else, and that they are supergood people.

They NEED to believe that the champions work harder than everyone else to overcome doping. Every nike advert ever made sells this idea, including the Armstrong 6 hours one. Some of the stories are even bizzare like the one tennis fanboys (aka tennis commentators) constantly tell on air about how Nadal does intense training sessions in the sun without water to show what a man he is.

The NEED to believe that being a good person is what makes someone a champion. No one wants to support an ***. Which is why when an *** like wiggins or lance or actually quite a lot of the guys, becomes a champion every ounce of effort from the press goes into trying to convince people that they are benevolent human beings who everyone loves. In La's case the guy was literally bullying people in front of their noses but still being promoted as a great guy.

Walsh's post change books are a very good example of psychology. There's even a passage where he says Froome is Jesus and Contador is Judas. But the whole book has that message. Brailsford himself is god like, every word he says golden. Every member of the team has stories to back up what perfect human beings they are. And the victory of Froome and Sky, the good people, who work hard over the bad people, is the ultimate human truimph.
Its a very common fantasy that appears throughout history.

Everyone would like to believe that the world is good and good people triumph, and the mentally weak people will do anything to convince themselves of it.

Its very similar to when I see religious fundamentalists say that heaven and hell must exist because they refuse to believe good actions aren't rewarded and bad actions aren't punished.

Its also why there is such extreme outrage from this crowd when someone tests positive. Ricco wasn't just cheating to win a race, he was directly confronting their fantasies and fetish for the triumph of the ubermensch. One of these, now banned posters, on here, when I asked him, rated doping as only slightly less of a crime than murder.

So if you doped once to win you do not fit the bill. Someone like Zakarin has no chance of being a posterboy for these people.

 

[SeriousSam]

Well said. This goes some way towards explaining the remarkably common and remarkably irrational view that dopers of the past are always extremely suspicious, even if they are now passing the same tests that prove our favourite athletes to be clean. Unless they feign repentance and sell a credible story of redemption.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Anyone who believes any particular rider is clean is stupid, it is totally illogical, there is absolutely no way to know that someone is definitely clean. I am not totally ruling out the possibility that could have been or might be now or in the future a combination of Donald Bradman and Heather Mackay type of out there performance level, but it is impossible to know which rider that is even if there is one.

Sadly cycling is corrupted, the best that can be hoped for is not clean racing, is not even that those who dope get caught and the clean riders get the wins after the dopers are banned, is not even that all riders will be treated equally so they are all kept to a limited level of doping, it is that the races are not totally rigged. That races are not actually decided beforehand, that is the best that can be hoped. That while, like wrestling, the participants might be physically unbelievable, they are not just acting the part of winner and loser in a fake contest.

 

[blackcat]

Re:

Well said. This goes some way towards explaining the remarkably common and remarkably irrational view that dopers of the past are always extremely suspicious, even if they are now passing the same tests that prove our favourite athletes to be clean. Unless they feign repentance and sell a credible story of redemption.

and call out guys who have tested positive, and teams like Saunier Duval.

cfa David Millar

 

[LaFlorecita]

This guy is unbelievable , I think he'll either get caught this year or will be nowhere near the top after this year

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re:

This guy is unbelievable , I think he'll either get caught this year or will be nowhere near the top after this year

Unless he has access to a massive amount of money. Then it will take a few more years to all come out.

He probably will win the Giro, be stripped of it later, but still will be considered the winner.

 

[Lexman]

Didn't know he was caught in 2007 already, It seems at least a bit strange he just surfaced now at age 25.... He will be caught allright...

 

[SkyTears]

this guy was cheating and doping since he was a minor, knowing perfectly what he does and for what gains.

the posterboy theory is false, if russians wanted to make one then surely won't pick an already banned guy.

so i guess he is on his own program right now, probably a little refined after the 2009 lessons

you see, Katusha guys on the team program don't get caught.

 

[doperhopper]

Re:

When a Frenchman wins, everyone is cleans.

... especially while "etalon of clean cycling" gets dropped

 

[DBotero]

Lol lot of hate against Zakarin.So no second chance for him.Strange given the fact that there is a crazy amount of support for one multiple GT winner,who if i remember right,was having a break a few years ago

 

[SkyTears]

Lol lot of hate against Zakarin.So no second chance for him.Strange given the fact that there is a crazy amount of support for one multiple GT winner,who if i remember right,was having a break a few years ago

you see, it like in real life society
there are some minimal etiquettes to check

Contador had the beef story, Zakarin was caught as a junior because he mixed up cycling and bodybuilding, in what was, most likely, his own doing.

That's why you can cheer with straight face about clean Nibali, Froome, Quintana and partially beef Contador , but never for Zakarin or JTL. it has nothing to do with being russian.

 

[DBotero]

Lol lot of hate against Zakarin.So no second chance for him.Strange given the fact that there is a crazy amount of support for one multiple GT winner,who if i remember right,was having a break a few years ago

you see, it like in real life society
there are some minimal etiquettes to check

Contador had the beef story, Zakarin was caught as a junior because he mixed up cycling and bodybuilding, in what was, most likely, his own doing.

That's why you can cheer with straight face about clean Nibali, Froome, Quintana and partially beef Contador , but never for Zakarin or JTL. it has nothing to do with being russian.

I don't think so,this is not bad cop/good cop.There are no good/bad dopers,cleaner/dirtier dopers,they all the same.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Re:

this guy was cheating and doping since he was a minor, knowing perfectly what he does and for what gains.

the posterboy theory is false, if russians wanted to make one then surely won't pick an already banned guy.

so i guess he is on his own program right now, probably a little refined after the 2009 lessons

you see, Katusha guys on the team program don't get caught.

My post about Zakarin becoming a new poster boy was complete sarcasm. Obviously doping and doing it pretty hard. I highly doubt he is being smart enough about it not to get caught. Perhaps getting caught does not matter if Katusha has bought some negation of positives. Anything is possible in this sport, any sport with any money.

 

[TheGreenMonkey]

Lol lot of hate against Zakarin.So no second chance for him.Strange given the fact that there is a crazy amount of support for one multiple GT winner,who if i remember right,was having a break a few years ago

you see, it like in real life society
there are some minimal etiquettes to check

Contador had the beef story, Zakarin was caught as a junior because he mixed up cycling and bodybuilding, in what was, most likely, his own doing.

That's why you can cheer with straight face about clean Nibali, Froome, Quintana and partially beef Contador , but never for Zakarin or JTL. it has nothing to do with being russian.

I don't think so,this is not bad cop/good cop.There are no good/bad dopers,cleaner/dirtier dopers,they all the same.

A rider that takes an illegal substance is a doper, it does not matter whether they do it once or do it their whole career, they are a cheating doper. It does not even matter if the substance gave an advantage, it is still cheating, even if it puts them in hospital or kills them, it is still cheating.
There should be no cheats in cycling but the chance that that will ever happen is about the same as me winning the Tour. Cheating is here to stay, we can watch cycling knowing that, we can deny reality or we can stop watching cycling.

 

[ciranda]

hi guys so I thought it would be fun to analyze how Ilnur Zakarins performances compares with for instance Adam & Simon Yates. conclusion is that Ilnur is not very suspicious and Adam & Simon maybe are.

check facts below.


z: out of an established system in a nation that have found and developed talent for fifty+ years
y: from a cycling backwater that had like one professional cyclist until ten years ago

z: big talent that showed results throughout juniors and u23, positive test + ban delayed time to reach WT
y: before third year as u23 only few results mostly in mass sprints, then exploded to the elite u23s the following year, then first year WT w very good performance in the hardest races

z: proves you can come back from doping and race clean and still be good in this modern era, Ilnur knows people in Russia will be ashamed if he tests positive again so of course he will not use anything
y: from a country that has experienced no doping scandals and so has no ethics about doping at all, where media says Tiernan-Locke is innocent, also home to the infamous Sky team

z: represents a team that is under pressure because the sponsor might leave, so obviously won't risk using illegal substances because that would mean the team will close for sure
y: represents a team that takes Darryl Impey to cycle races and pays him to race in them

 

[SkyTears]

hi guys so I thought it would be fun to analyze how Ilnur Zakarins performances compares with for instance Adam & Simon Yates. conclusion is that Ilnur is not very suspicious and Adam & Simon maybe are.

check facts below.


z: out of an established system in a nation that have found and developed talent for fifty+ years
y: from a cycling backwater that had like one professional cyclist until ten years ago

z: big talent that showed results throughout juniors and u23, positive test + ban delayed time to reach WT
y: before third year as u23 only few results mostly in mass sprints, then exploded to the elite u23s the following year, then first year WT w very good performance in the hardest races

z: proves you can come back from doping and race clean and still be good in this modern era, Ilnur knows people in Russia will be ashamed if he tests positive again so of course he will not use anything
y: from a country that has experienced no doping scandals and so has no ethics about doping at all, where media says Tiernan-Locke is innocent, also home to the infamous Sky team

z: represents a team that is under pressure because the sponsor might leave, so obviously won't risk using illegal substances because that would mean the team will close for sure
y: represents a team that takes Darryl Impey to cycle races and pays him to race in them

this post compete with "Sky has black shirts cause they are recharging batteries shirts" for the clinic post of the year.

truly no mods here. the amount of *** and trolling per square word shoot through the roof

anyway i had a good laugh reading