Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[86TDFWinner]

From what I understood from all the info / misinformation out that it might possibly cause problems for USADA if they used witness testimony and case in the USADA proceedings?

LOL, nice avatar!

 

[eleven]

Back on topic.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...port-lance-raises-questions-article-1.1173205

Except both agencies weren't trying to answer whether or not Armstrong doped. Doping wasn't illegal under US code. The Feds were trying to determine if US law had been violated in conspiracy.

 

[Race Radio]

Except both agencies weren't trying to answer whether or not Armstrong doped. Doping wasn't illegal under US code. The Feds were trying to determine if US law had been violated in conspiracy.

The Federal criminal case was focused on the criminal aspect of doping. Funding, transport, harassing witnesses so they don't say anything. All the investigators and prosecutors agreed there was overwhelming evidence of guilt and recommend prosecution. A political appointee ignored them and dropped the case.

After people read all the evidence in the USADA case it will be clear to most that many criminal laws were broken. Somebody will have some splaining to do.

 

[simo1733]

The Federal criminal case was focused on the criminal aspect of doping. Funding, transport, harassing witnesses so they don't say anything. All the investigators and prosecutors agreed there was overwhelming evidence of guilt and recommend prosecution. A political appointee ignored them and dropped the case.

After people read all the evidence in the USADA case it will be clear to most that many criminal laws were broken. Somebody will have some splaining to do.

I don't understand how the case could be dropped without explaination.Sure he is a political appointee, but what about the political opposition?

 

[MarkvW]

The Federal criminal case was focused on the criminal aspect of doping. Funding, transport, harassing witnesses so they don't say anything. All the investigators and prosecutors agreed there was overwhelming evidence of guilt and recommend prosecution. A political appointee ignored them and dropped the case.

After people read all the evidence in the USADA case it will be clear to most that many criminal laws were broken. Somebody will have some splaining to do.

I don't believe that the federal case was focused on the "criminal aspect of doping." I believe that the federal case was focused on FRAUD--on Mr. Armstrong and his coconspirators defrauding the United States of millions of dollars. Doping was a necessary component of that fraud, for sure. But proving the fraud itself was the crucial inquiry. And, I suspect, a major source of evidentiary difficulty for the prosecutors--the people who would have had to actually prove the case in court beyond a reasonable doubt.

Once upon a time, I seem to recall you believed that there was a major fraud investigation going on. I suggest that you are omitting mention of the fraud focus now because it does not fit into your "influence" narrative.

It is not credible to believe that the feds invested lots of time and money just to investigate very old series of sporting drug deliveries that largely happened abroad. If they did, and that got out, it would be very embarrassing and a waste of money.

I can't rule out your influence theory, but you cannot reasonably rule out other--honest--theories that support the termination of the investigation.

The disappointed cops rationale doesn't move me. Cops get disappointed ALL the time. If prosecutors on the other hand were disappointed, then I'd be moved a little bit toward the "influence" side.

 

[runninboy]

To clarify. "LA" contributed nothing.

All the money came from Livestrong.

Livestrong.com or Livestrong.org
it's so easy to get them confused

 

[Race Radio]

I don't believe that the federal case was focused on the "criminal aspect of doping." I believe that the federal case was focused on FRAUD--on Mr. Armstrong and his coconspirators defrauding the United States of millions of dollars.

Once upon a time, I seem to recall you believed that there was a major fraud investigation going on. I suggest that you are omitting mention of the fraud focus now because it does not fit into your "influence" narrative.

The Fraud case is the Qui Tam case. It is ongoing.

The charges that were drawn up in the criminal case were mail fraud, drug distribution, wire fraud and witness tampering. As we know Mail and Wire fraud are normally focused on payment for illegal products or services.

 

[Race Radio]

http://lavamagazine.com/features/armstrong-to-detractors-its-their-drama-not-mine/#axzz28NENNNUd

Poor Lance, can't figure out why people will not leave him alone

Yeah, others won’t move on. It’s sad. I’m aware that it’s out there. It’s like, why are you continuing? You got what you wanted; Lance Armstrong never did anything in his life. Great. For some, it’s like, shouldn’t you be out training and focusing on what you’re doing? ****ing move on. So strange.

Waaaaa. The guy who actively works to obstruct USADA and hires lobbyists to try to convince Congress to cut their funding is crying because people do not believe his B.S.?

Classy Groupies. Lance wants people to move on but he rallies his groupies to spew hate about USADA because they did their job?

 

[Tubeless]

I don't believe that the federal case was focused on the "criminal aspect of doping." I believe that the federal case was focused on FRAUD--on Mr. Armstrong and his coconspirators defrauding the United States of millions of dollars. Doping was a necessary component of that fraud, for sure. But proving the fraud itself was the crucial inquiry. And, I suspect, a major source of evidentiary difficulty for the prosecutors--the people who would have had to actually prove the case in court beyond a reasonable doubt.

Once upon a time, I seem to recall you believed that there was a major fraud investigation going on. I suggest that you are omitting mention of the fraud focus now because it does not fit into your "influence" narrative.

It is not credible to believe that the feds invested lots of time and money just to investigate very old series of sporting drug deliveries that largely happened abroad. If they did, and that got out, it would be very embarrassing and a waste of money.

I can't rule out your influence theory, but you cannot reasonably rule out other--honest--theories that support the termination of the investigation.

The disappointed cops rationale doesn't move me. Cops get disappointed ALL the time. If prosecutors on the other hand were disappointed, then I'd be moved a little bit toward the "influence" side.

Tyler's book has a section that speculates on the motives for dropping the criminal investigation. The author pretty much rules out favoritism / corruption, but believes that political consideration was a factor, given the upcoming presidential elections. Recent government failures in prosecuting other sports heros for similar offenses likely played a role - a significant portion of the population (unfortunately) does not believe the offenses are worth criminal charges. Well-timed donations by Livestrong.org probably helped. And personal connections via the high-powered team of lobbyists and lawyers that LA hired no doubt was in the mix.

So there was likely no quid pro quo - rather a more complicated set of reasons that a political appointee felt it was in his self-interest and the interest of his superiors to drop the case.

There's also the argument that the more appropriate punishment for the doping & related self-enrichment is stripping of titles, reputation and civil charges that seek monetary penalties. That's what's happening now and it feels that some form of justice is being served. It would have been a terrible injustice to have indictments, a multi-year legal process culminating in a jury trial - and a possible acquittal of all charges. The present method is a speedier and a more certain way to get a verdict - which has in fact already taken place with respect to the central issue of uncovering the truth about the greatest sports fraud ever.

 

[zingone]

Waaaaa. The guy who actively works to obstruct USADA and hires lobbyists to try to convince Congress to cut their funding is crying because people do not believe his B.S.?

Classy Groupies. Lance wants people to move on but he rallies his groupies to spew hate about USADA because they did their job?

Where in any of that article does he sound like he is crying? Actually, it really sounds like the guy just doesn't care. Full stop, end of story.

 

[Random Direction]

Ok Race Radio, what lab in Spain, where, and am I putting this in the wrong thread?

Race Radio‏@TheRaceRadio

Did you really think they would not find out about the lab in Spain?

 

[86TDFWinner]

http://lavamagazine.com/features/armstrong-to-detractors-its-their-drama-not-mine/#axzz28NENNNUd

Poor Lance, can't figure out why people will not leave him alone



Waaaaa. The guy who actively works to obstruct USADA and hires lobbyists to try to convince Congress to cut their funding is crying because people do not believe his B.S.?

Classy Groupies. Lance wants people to move on but he rallies his groupies to spew hate about USADA because they did their job?

He's such a POS. Poor Wonderboy.

 

[BroDeal]

Where in any of that article does he sound like he is crying? Actually, it really sounds like the guy just doesn't care. Full stop, end of story.

Sure he does not care. That is why he is wearing a temporary "seven" tattoo, because he does not care that he was stripped. Landis said it best when he talked about whether Armstrong cares or not.

The thing I got from that interview is that Armstrong is seething angry about those who keep bringing up his past. He thought he would retire and everything he did would be relegated to history. Unfortunately his fraud was so great that it is the defining thing about him and people will always talk about his cheating. We axe-grinders win.

 

[Ferminal]

What was the time and date when he stopped caring?

 

[Bannockburn]

Where in any of that article does he sound like he is crying? Actually, it really sounds like the guy just doesn't care. Full stop, end of story.

Actually, we're currently at the stage where he is, poorly, trying to make it look like he doesn't care -- by design, save for the 'poorly' part as that was editorial. End stop, nowhere near end of story.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't understand how the case could be dropped without explaination.Sure he is a political appointee, but what about the political opposition?

#1. Hire the Master of Disaster, Mark Fabiani to make it aaaaaall go away. Guys like him seem to be able to exert an extraordinary amount of influence.

#2. I think maybe you don't understand the political environment in the U.S. It's a two-party system where each party is largely centrally controlled. Both parties are pretty similar when it comes to voting. There may be the occasional outlier who refuses to join the system, but they don't get much legislation done.

 

[Bosco10]

Classy Groupies. Lance wants people to move on but he rallies his groupies to spew hate about USADA because they did their job?

What a complete tool that lady is. Read her comments at the end of the article. Armstrong counts on the "We love you Lance!!" crapola. I suppose it will always be there.

 

[zingone]

Sure he does not care. That is why he is wearing a temporary "seven" tattoo, because he does not care that he was stripped. Landis said it best when he talked about whether Armstrong cares or not.

The thing I got from that interview is that Armstrong is seething angry about those who keep bringing up his past. He thought he would retire and everything he did would be relegated to history. Unfortunately his fraud was so great that it is the defining thing about him and people will always talk about his cheating. We axe-grinders win.

Agree - he is still living his delusional image of himself by sporting the #7 and giving USADA et. al a big FU. That said, my takeaway from from that article is that he doesn't care about the rhetoric and commentary from the naysayers (and the ones who really know how it went down all those years). It is possible for him to be both: delusional and moving on.

 

[thirteen]

excellent interview with D1ck Pound on Velonation where he talks about a lot of things, including LA:

VN: You had a couple of tangles with Armstrong in the past. How do you feel about how things have happened since, plus the fact that he has been handed a lifetime ban and will lose all his results since 1998?

RP: Well, I’m certainly not surprised that an independent investigation into the facts has produced overwhelming evidence of his involvement in doping. It is disappointing to see him in the face of all that still maintain that everybody else is a liar, except for him. I think certainly that in the court of public opinion, he has already lost. And when all of the detail comes out, I think people are going to say that not only was he involved in all of this, but why is he continuing to deny it?

Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...rnance-of-cycling-and-more.aspx#ixzz28QgMV52D

 

[fatandfast]

excellent interview with D1ck Pound on Velonation where he talks about a lot of things, including LA:


Read more: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...rnance-of-cycling-and-more.aspx#ixzz28QgMV52D

which investigation is he talking about the DOJ $40,000,000 dollar one that yielded nothing,or the IOC tests after his medal or the USADA investigation.
45 million later and Armstrong is caught,I guess we ran out of cash to get George,Levi,CVV and Zbag, the USADA is probably just saving up

 

[Race Radio]

which investigation is he talking about the DOJ $40,000,000 dollar

Link?......of did you just make this number up?

The Fed case did not cost anything close to $40 million.

 

[thehog]

Aa rough business plan. Meaning its not and never going to happen.

 

[krebs303]

Link?......of did you just make this number up?

The Fed case did not cost anything close to $40 million.

It's directly from Phil so you know it's true.
About 50 seconds in
500 Tests

 

[Bosco10]

It's directly from Phil so you know it's true.
About 50 seconds in
500 Tests

lol....Watch at 3:15 to 3:23... Lance looks older than Phil!

 

[RownhamHill]

Some are true believers that nothing ever happened. Some are believers that something did happen, and some are believers that don’t give a **** what happened.

I thought this comment from Armstrong describing his supporters in that Lava piece was interesting - 'some are true believers' - it sounds like even Lance can't be bothered to keep up with the facade much longer.