Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[Ninety5rpm]

Which is why I think they will take the same route as Armstrong -- not agree with the findings and no sanction.

Can the USADA appeal to the CAS?

McQuaid has already said the UCI will have no problems banning Armstrong. He's acting like it will be their choice, but I don't see how.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I've read more of the WADA Code. In particular Section 13. Apparently the decision of a national ADA can be appealed even if the accused waived his rights to a hearing.

But still, presuming that the USADA does provide multiple mutually corroborating witness statements supporting each of the charges, on what grounds would they appeal, and why would CAS agree? I mean, these guys (and not just Tyler and Flandis) already sang to the Feds, USADA, and Dan Coyle. That cat is way out of the bag.

 

[BroDeal]

Which is why I think they will take the same route as Armstrong -- not agree with the findings and no sanction.

Can the USADA appeal to the CAS?

The UCI is in the same position as Armstrong. They want as little information as possible to be made public. They will choose the option that accomplishes that. Accepting the USADA's decision will cause less pain to the UCI than arguing over it at CAS.

If McQuaid was smart then right now he would be preparing an anti-doping advance, like putting everying in an independent entity, that he could announce at the same time he signs off on the Armstrong sanctions. He could dismiss the past as the past, perhaps with a veiled mea culpa, and spend his time focusing on the future.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Which is why I think they will take the same route as Armstrong -- not agree with the findings and no sanction.

Can the USADA appeal to the CAS?

Yes, if the UCI decides not to ban Armstrong the USADA can appeal to CAS. I suppose the same is true if ASO decides not to revoke his titles.

 

[thehog]

McQuaid has already said the UCI will have no problems banning Armstrong. He's acting like it will be their choice, but I don't see how.

Turn it around the other way. Say they do appeal. Say they take control of the case. Say they win. And don’t strip him of any titles or only one or two. Where would that leave cycling? It would become a complete joke. You could never mention that era ever again. No one would speak of it. Even if he held onto 7 titles there would be zero recognition of them. The UCI are a lot of things but they’re not completely stupid by obstructing and stopping the stripping of titles. Their own survival depends that they do. Because they know the breakaway league is still very active and if they don’t sanction Armstrong then that will take off at a very rapid rate. The cyclists and teams will leave the UCI in droves. Anti-doping would lose all meaning if they stepped in now.

There is now just too much information in the public domain and more coming for the UCI to attempt to shut this down.

USADA knows, the UCI knows USADA knows and for the UCI to hold onto this leaking boat they still have to pretend to care about anti-doping and that all riders are treated the same.

Hincapie’s confession is just around the corner. With that the UCI cannot pretend there’s was no doping or that they will over look the evidence.

 

[Microchip]

McQuaid has already said the UCI will have no problems banning Armstrong...

He says things that last only half-hour. It's about time he said something totally different.

 

[MarkvW]

I've read more of the WADA Code. In particular Section 13. Apparently the decision of a national ADA can be appealed even if the accused waived his rights to a hearing.

But still, presuming that the USADA does provide multiple mutually corroborating witness statements supporting each of the charges, on what grounds would they appeal, and why would CAS agree? I mean, these guys (and not just Tyler and Flandis) already sang to the Feds, USADA, and Dan Coyle. That cat is way out of the bag.

Dang. Now you've got me looking at the rule.

And now I'm hooked on the meaning of the word "decision." Does a waived hearing result in a "decision?"

Answer: Duh. Yes, It results in a "reasoned decision"

 

[frenchfry]

Turn it around the other way. Say they do appeal. Say they take control of the case. Say they win. And don’t strip him of any titles or only one or two. Where would that leave cycling? It would become a complete joke. You could never mention that era ever again. No one would speak of it. Even if he held onto 7 titles there would be zero recognition of them. The UCI are a lot of things but they’re not completely stupid by obstructing and stopping the stripping of titles. Their own survival depends that they do. Because they know the breakaway league is still very active and if they don’t sanction Armstrong then that will take off at a very rapid rate. The cyclists and teams will leave the UCI in droves. Anti-doping would lose all meaning if they stepped in now.

There is now just too much information in the public domain and more coming for the UCI to attempt to shut this down.

USADA knows, the UCI knows USADA knows and for the UCI to hold onto this leaking boat they still have to pretend to care about anti-doping and that all riders are treated the same.

Hincapie’s confession is just around the corner. With that the UCI cannot pretend there’s was no doping or that they will over look the evidence.

Hincapie would be smart to come out of the closet now, that way his message will make fewer waves in the wake of Tyler's book, JV's revelations about CVV, TD and DZ, and all the other noise.

In a way, the USADA delay in releasing the details is not such a bad thing as many of the details will have been confirmed in advanced. Wonderboy's PR campaign seems to be taking one step forward, two steps back as ex-teammates and especially the press are taking great delight in going after him now that they don't feel menaced by his vindictiveness.

 

[thehog]

Hincapie would be smart to come out of the closet now, that way his message will make fewer waves in the wake of Tyler's book, JV's revelations about CVV, TD and DZ, and all the other noise.

In a way, the USADA delay in releasing the details is not such a bad thing as many of the details will have been confirmed in advanced. Wonderboy's PR campaign seems to be taking one step forward, two steps back as ex-teammates and especially the press are taking great delight in going after him now that they don't feel menaced by his vindictiveness.

The delay was a very good thing. If they came out straightaway it would have got lost in the noise. Armstrong has already thrown everything he has at this and fired off too many rounds. He cannot keep up and neither can his supporters. When the file is released the penny will drop for all. Hincapie’s announcement will confirm it all. It’s over.

Using cancer connections will amount to little. Its over.

 

[frenchfry]

The delay was a very good thing. If they came out straightaway it would have got lost in the noise. Armstrong has already thrown everything he has at this and fired off too many rounds. He cannot keep up and neither can his supporters. When the file is released the penny will drop for all. Hincapie’s announcement will confirm it all. It’s over.

Using cancer connections will amount to little. Its over.

It's a question of momentum, it took a long time building up and now has swung irreversibly to the side of the truth. And what a truth - even the most fervent hater is probably overwhelmed by the extent of the agressiveness both in terms of the doping and certainly with regards to how he treats people.

I think back to the comeback. After my initial shock, I realised that this could be the golden opportunity to break open the floodgates. If he hadn't come back, we wouldn't be at this point. Hope rides again indeed!

 

[Bicycle]

The UCI is in the same position as Armstrong. They want as little information as possible to be made public. They will choose the option that accomplishes that. Accepting the USADA's decision will cause less pain to the UCI than arguing over it at CAS.

If McQuaid was smart then right now he would be preparing an anti-doping advance, like putting everying in an independent entity, that he could announce at the same time he signs off on the Armstrong sanctions. He could dismiss the past as the past, perhaps with a veiled mea culpa, and spend his time focusing on the future.

And Lance gets to keep his millions plus the true-believers never have to see the nasty truth exposed in arbitration.

 

[singletrack mind]

Which is why I think they will take the same route as Armstrong -- not agree with the findings and no sanction.

Can the USADA appeal to the CAS?

I think you've got it backwards. If, for some reason the UCI does not want to uphold the USSDA decision, the UCI has to appeal that decision to CAS. Not the other way around.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Dang. Now you've got me looking at the rule.

And now I'm hooked on the meaning of the word "decision." Does a waived hearing result in a "decision?"

Answer: Duh. Yes, It results in a "reasoned decision"

Thanks for looking at it and confirming your understanding. We're on the same page.

 

[MarkvW]

And Lance gets to keep his millions plus the true-believers never have to see the nasty truth exposed in arbitration.

But what about the qui tam?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

I think you've got it backwards. If, for some reason the UCI does not want to uphold the USSDA decision, the UCI has to appeal that decision to CAS. Not the other way around.

Yeah, but what if they just effectively ignore the USADA decision and do nothing. Besides, what does "banning" (from cycling) mean with respect to someone who is retired from cycling?

As far as officially removing the titles... who does that?

 

[python]

I think you've got it backwards. If, for some reason the UCI does not want to uphold the USSDA decision, the UCI has to appeal that decision to CAS. Not the other way around.

Welcome to the forum. You are right, but I don't think this is turners fault...

We had a specific thread/poll if the uci will appeal and why/ why not. Dozens of thoughtful and educated poster covered every inch of the issue. The posts are buried some place under the heap of moderating activism and trolling.

 

[Benotti69]

Yeah, but what if they just effectively ignore the USADA decision and do nothing. Besides, what does "banning" (from cycling) mean with respect to someone who is retired from cycling?

As far as officially removing the titles... who does that?

He is a banned athlete from all IOC affiliated sports, including triathlon.

But there must be an opening for him in the pro wrestling circus

If Armstrong was to enter pro wrestling, what woud his name be?

 

[Ninety5rpm]

Welcome to the forum. You are right, but I don't think this is turners fault...

We had a specific thread/poll if the uci will appeal and why/ why not. Dozens of thoughtful and educated poster covered every inch of the issue. The posts are buried some place under the heap of moderating activism and trolling.

God, I missed that thread entirely. So it got rolled up in one of these kitchen sink threads? Ugh!

Maybe the solution is subforums in this subforum? Or, if the software can't support another level, how about a separate "Armstrong USADA Case" subforum at the same level as The Clinic?

 

[python]

Welcome to the forum. You are right, but I don't think this is turners fault...

We had a specific thread/poll if the uci will appeal and why/ why not. Dozens of thoughtful and educated poster covered every inch of the issue. The posts are buried some place under the heap of moderating activism and trolling.

Found the thread.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18337

 

[Kender]

He is a banned athlete from all IOC affiliated sports, including triathlon.

But there must be an opening for him in the pro wrestling circus

If Armstrong was to enter pro wrestling, what woud his name be?

The Cancernator. da dum dum da dum

 

[LauraLyn]

An interesting discussion today from Anna Zimmerman on the aftermath of the Lance Armstrong case: http://150wattsofawesome.blogspot.de/2012/09/lance-armstrong-aftermath.html

 

[Benotti69]

The Cancernator. da dum dum da dum

Chapeau

 

[the big ring]

The Cancernator. da dum dum da dum

I like it. I can see the tag lines now...



Banninated from all things IOC. Tanninated, like never before.

For all you fanninators out there, he's back!

The Cancernator!!

 

[LauraLyn]

A hard-hitting and heavy dismissal of Lance (and his cancer foundation):

http://www.caribbeannewsnow.com/headline-Commentary:-Doper-Lance-Armstrong-stripped...-12483.html

Frankly, the evidence against him is such that Lance Armstrong insisting he’s no doper is rather like O.J. Simpson insisting he’s no murderer. In any event, this development makes Armstrong easily the most notorious cheater in sports history. And I suppose calling it a “fall from grace” mistakenly assumes he had grace in the first place….

The islanders tell it like it is.

 

[LauraLyn]

It's a question of momentum, it took a long time building up and now has swung irreversibly to the side of the truth. . . . .

Yes, but is the momentum enough. If it stalls out with Lance, then it will not have done enough. I think the UCI thread here is important. There should also be a USA Cycling thread. And there should be a thread discussing the impact of this on young cyclists. These are much more important than the cyclists of the "dark era."