Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

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May 26, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
Quite a bit bigger than a State Senator. FYI, American House of Representatives can be described as true-er democracy with all the faults that come with it. http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/whyhouseandsenate.htm

His committee assignments are in the areas of greatest interest to Wonderboy, Judiciary and Science and Technology. He's highly ranked in both: http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/biography/committees.htm

I still argue, the point of this is to de-fund USADA so Wonderboy can overwhelm them with more legal resources. Alternatively, I suppose they could try to get key USADA people fired and replaced with more compliant people. Either would be the win Team Wonderboy needs to keep the myth intact.

The evidence would be released to the media before that would happen so wonderboy would be forever tarnished and i think that WADA are fully aware of the game being played and are leaning the weight back too but are probably less obvious about it.

I doubt IOC wont to see an athlete gain so much influence either as they might suffer a similar fate so i doubt it will be allowed to happen.
 
Benotti69 said:
I doubt IOC wont to see an athlete gain so much influence either as they might suffer a similar fate so i doubt it will be allowed to happen.

Agreed. In this sense Team Armstrong is still fighting waaaaay out of their weight class.

It still makes me wonder what Armstrong and Hein are hiding to the point of possibly getting kicked out of the IOC.
 
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Anonymous

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DirtyWorks said:
Agreed. In this sense Team Armstrong is still fighting waaaaay out of their weight class.

It still makes me wonder what Armstrong and Hein are hiding to the point of possibly getting kicked out of the IOC.

Me too.

One thing is quite clear. The only interest either one of these clowns have in cycling is figuring out how the sport can continue to line their pockets.
 

LauraLyn

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Jul 13, 2012
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Benotti69 said:
The evidence would be released to the media before that would happen so wonderboy would be forever tarnished and i think that WADA are fully aware of the game being played and are leaning the weight back too but are probably less obvious about it.

I doubt IOC wont to see an athlete gain so much influence either as they might suffer a similar fate so i doubt it will be allowed to happen.

Yes, I would think that there is a lot going on in the background regarding IOC and WADA organizations. We saw that with the FCC press release.

But this is not inside US politics and the international side is likely to be as damaging as helpful to USADA - even with the full international support.
 
Feb 3, 2011
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Howard Bryant's editorial on ESPN.com, apologies if this is a re-post.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/...es-doping-overshadow-good-deeds-espn-magazine

On one hand, it's good to see more mainstream journalists finally willing to be critical of the myth. On the other, the comments section is quite staggering. As far as getting Joe Public to believe that USADA's process is unconstitutional and that he's never tested positive, passed 63 million tests, and that he would absolutely fight if it could be fair, Lance's strategy is working. That or Livestrong is paying their interns a lot of overtime this week.

I was going to test the waters in the comments section but I'm tired of fighting. I owe it to my fans and my family to walk away.
 

the big ring

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Jul 28, 2009
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LauraLyn said:
A suggestion:

August 23: Anti-doping Day.

Every year the 23rd of August should be celebrated as anti-doping day. We should mark the day Lance quit with an international day against doping in cycling and in sports. Or it could just be called "Sports Integrity Day."

We could propose this from The Clinic to USADA and WADA.

Don't count me in your "we". You are about as believable as Santa Claus and "we" share nothing in common on this topic.

Here's a hint: every day is anti-doping day. Suggesting we celebrate anything done by that fraudster Lance Armstrong is patently ridiculous.

The obfuscating links you post in the stickied "evidence" thread full of pro-Armstrong opinion and innuendo, plus the little tete-a-tete with Mike Anderson have convinced me you are duplicitous to the extreme.

I look forward to your on-going participation once Lance Armstrong is finally shown to be the complete and utter 71 VO2max doped to the back teeth druggy he really is.
 

the big ring

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Jul 28, 2009
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the big ring said:
..as did an Aussie swimmer...

Oh Libby noooo! Please stop while you're ahead!!!

FFS when will a sportsperson stand up and say "thank christ they are making an effort and catching dopers and, even going after the biggest name in the sport. It doesn't matter who you are, doping is cheating"

And yes big ring, I would like to hear Evans say just that. The silence (lotto lol) is deafening, its still omerta from pretty well everyone including Wiggo. Come on Cadel, come on Wiggo, come on Hesjedal, come on Cav (and any other recent GT winners and world champs), speak up!! now is your one and only and last chance!!!
 

LauraLyn

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Jul 13, 2012
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the big ring said:
Don't count me in your "we". You are about as believable as Santa Claus and "we" share nothing in common on this topic.

Here's a hint: every day is anti-doping day. Suggesting we celebrate anything done by that fraudster Lance Armstrong is patently ridiculous.

The obfuscating links you post in the stickied "evidence" thread full of pro-Armstrong opinion and innuendo, plus the little tete-a-tete with Mike Anderson have convinced me you are duplicitous to the extreme.

I look forward to your on-going participation once Lance Armstrong is finally shown to be the complete and utter 71 VO2max doped to the back teeth druggy he really is.

Everyday is also Women's Day, Children's Day, Anti-tobacco Day, and AIDS day. And there are many many more such days. These days represent something that is important in society generally or in a sector of society (e.g., Clinical Trials Day). There is good reason to have these days marked annually on the calendar. They raise awareness to serious problems, they are an inspiration for discussion, and they help us as people to improve.

In a reasonable discussion on evidence on any subject there will be points of view expressed from various positions. Without such a discussion, evidence is nothing more than propaganda and it is not believable.

My support for Mike was clear. I believe some people in The Clinic were less than sympathetic to Mike or his difficult position on that day and did indeed try to manipulate him. I thought that was not correct.

When Lance Armstrong refused to enter into arbitration the case was closed. Frankly even if Lance had won in arbitration I would not have any more respect for him. He has already been shown to have doped, lied, cheated, and defrauded a huge number of people. He is also a womanizer in my mind. Even if the evidence has not been presented, the decision has been made. I think you need not continue to wait to make up your mind.

It is always sad when people stop believing in Santa Claus. They lose something important for a good life.
 

LauraLyn

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Jul 13, 2012
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Tubeless said:
The letter needs to be put in perspective. While it's 23 (out of 40) California state senators, all they can do is to lobby their own US senators to take the matter up in the US senate. . . . . A similar effort by a US congressman Sensenbrenner died after a letter demanding such hearings was sent - and USADA responded welcoming the congressman to be educated on the USADA processes. . . . . The letter proves money can buy influence, but this feels to be too little too late. And it also proves that Armstrong is lacking friends in the white house, ONDCP, the US senate, and the US house of representatives sans Mr. Sensenbrenner.

Great post. Great insights.

See http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...role-after-state-senators-request-review.aspx

Contacted today by VeloNation, USADA insisted that the complaint against it didn’t stack up. “We look forward to answering any question these state representatives have about the Congressionally-mandated process that was approved by athletes, the United States Olympic Committee and all U.S. sport federations,” said its CEO Travis Tygart. “[It] has protected the rights of clean athletes for over a decade, has been used in approximately four hundred cases – twenty percent of which have not involved a traditional positive test -- and which the federal judge, after rejecting Mr. Armstrong's complaints, confirmed provides full Constitutional Due Process to all athletes accused of doping violations."

Really good stuff from USADA. Just as expected.
 

the big ring

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Jul 28, 2009
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sittingbison said:
Oh Libby noooo! Please stop while you're ahead!!!

FFS when will a sportsperson stand up and say "thank christ they are making an effort and catching dopers and, even going after the biggest name in the sport. It doesn't matter who you are, doping is cheating"

And yes big ring, I would like to hear Evans say just that. The silence (lotto lol) is deafening, its still omerta from pretty well everyone including Wiggo. Come on Cadel, come on Wiggo, come on Hesjedal, come on Cav (and any other recent GT winners and world champs), speak up!! now is your one and only and last chance!!!

It's an interesting conundrum, isn't it?

Cadel is hands down my favourite rider, but mainly because I've ridden in a bunch with him and seen him stick to his prescribed power output for the day while most of the rest of us hammered the climb. He had no ego, or it was firmly in check.

Why aren't they talking?

I honestly believe Cadel has hinted at things, but that's as likely to be me projecting as anything else.

And the more I think about it, the more I wonder why we want them to talk. To prove (?) they are clean themselves? Justifying our faith in them? Our fandom?

I think that's part of it for me. But I already believe Cadel, so if he said something (like: I am clean, or this is good for the sport) it would just reinforce my belief - which is what happens for Lance's fans when he trots out the same message. But I have already convicted Lance in my head.

I (perhaps deludedly) think I understand Cadel and where he's coming from. And he does not feel it is his place to say anything. Regardless of what we think his place is. And that's what he said. That's what I would prefer they say than Libby's tweet. Or worse yet Brad's support of a 71 VO2 max doping wannabe.

In the scheme of things, it goes

UCI
Team management
Riders

and we're disappointed in the riders for not saying something. Meanwhile the team managers for the most part are hiding things, denying things, and the UCI are entirely corrupt and conducting coverups and suing reporters for repeating what riders have written.

The more I have thought about this, the more I think the riders should be caning their managers, managing up if you will, to cane the living crap out of the UCI. Coz that's where the rot starts.

As much as the riders are rock stars, I still think they are employees (I am trying to empathise here) - which is why LA was an anomaly, coz he owned part of the team and was the team, the boss, in effect. No other rider can really make that claim.

Interesting.
 

LauraLyn

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Jul 13, 2012
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gooner said:
Landis also talks briefly about the 2004 incident when Armstrong went to the UCI about Hamilton.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/m...w-lance-amstrong-activities-article-1.1152899

Landis' quote there says it all, also about the ongoing amerta:

“To me, there was a set of unspoken rules we all played by,” Landis said. “We had a set of written rules, but nobody was following those.”

What it still interesting to know is if the Feds interviewed Sheryl Crow only as a witness against Armstrong but also as a suspected suspect in the doping/fraud conspiracy.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Tubeless said:
The letter needs to be put in perspective. While it's 23 (out of 40) California state senators, all they can do is to lobby their own US senators to take the matter up in the US senate. If senators Feinstein or Boxer think it's in their interest to pursue it further, they would then have to try to influence the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), an agency managed by the white house which provides the federal funding for USADA. A similar effort by a US congressman Sensenbrenner died after a letter demanding such hearings was sent - and USADA responded welcoming the congressman to be educated on the USADA processes.

Please educate me here, as I am someone with no US connections and limited knowledge of the intricacies of the US system. How slowly or quickly do these things move? What is the time frame we are looking at before this could actually be tabled on a Senate agenda if they pushed it through to the table anyway?
 

LauraLyn

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Jul 13, 2012
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dadane said:
Please educate me here, as I am someone with no US connections and limited knowledge of the intricacies of the US system. How slowly or quickly do these things move? What is the time frame we are looking at before this could actually be tabled on a Senate agenda if they pushed it through to the table anyway?

The 23 California State Senators need their two (or just one) US Senator to buy into it. (A good chance that is already the case. But it needs to be official.)

One of the Californian US Senators would then probably raise the issue in one of the US Senate Committees and it would be debated there. They would like debate 1. if there is a real issue, 2. what do do about it. If they got to 2. it would like be an investigation of one sort or another, likely an investigation by one or another US audit agency or (but this is a long run) a Senate Committee investigation. So we are talking a lot of time, no matter what before anything happens.

In the meantime there are the USADA other arbitration processes going on, there is the UCI game, and there will be a lot more Floyds and Tylers talking. Finally, there is the US election in November. And this is an issue that cuts across party lines on both sides, so it is likely not something that can possibly get much pay there. It is controversial, but it will never be a Democrats vs. Republican issue. It ain't that big and it ain't that real as an issue.

So probably it is a storm in a teacup. Read the Velonation article. It is a good summary of what this means.
 
Jun 27, 2009
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the big ring said:
A marketing TV show does an episode on Lance Armstrong and his PR / positioning / social media etc. Well worth the watch. Not sure if it's geo-restricted.

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/25882

Dam... I was going to post this, interesting the two senior panel members considered his move not to fight the charges clever, the deft switch from the cyclist to cancer crusader, to heck with the Tour wins, he's going to become a evangelist and CEO Livestrong .org/.com legend and make some real money out of this.. what was the number in dollars bandied about $120 million he's going to make, or is worth.. And the panel is right, as long as he stays on song, his doping charges will become a conspiracy like UFO's and the CIA killing Kennedy, lost in the mists of time.. He may make U.S. president yet...
 
Jul 29, 2012
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LauraLyn said:
So probably it is a storm in a teacup.

Thanks.

So, by the time the time any of this really hits the 'serious' discussion level every TV channel under the sun, like, er... Discovery:D, will have made documentaries (because they will soon feel free of the threat of litigation, if they don't already) and the world will be wiser anyway.

I feel happier now.
 
Jul 29, 2012
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Sorry if that last comment was bit simplistic, but I am trying to compare the consitutional process with ones that I am familiar with and I see an agenda that would take an absolute minimum of a year (only if fast-tracked), but probably two, to get through all the the committee phases and reviews. In this time USADA should be home a dry.
 

LauraLyn

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Jul 13, 2012
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dadane said:
Sorry if that last comment was bit simplistic, but I am trying to compare the consitutional process with ones that I am familiar with and I see an agenda that would take an absolute minimum of a year (only if fast-tracked), but probably two, to get through all the the committee phases and reviews. In this time USADA should be home a dry.

Not simplistic. Probably my response was.

I don't think it would be so different in any other country. Politicians always have their favorite rock stars, but getting them on the political agenda is another case.

Still we only see the noise that escapes into the corridor. We don't see what is going on inside the negotiating rooms.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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dadane said:
It is geo-restricted:(
I just watched it. It's call Gruen Planet Series 2. Episode 3 on ABC Iview. The Lance doping bit goes from about 3min to 23min mark. A good 20 minutes without commercials and includes plenty of Lance video footage doing commercials and lying through his teeth. At least all 4 journalists do not dispute his guilt. They talk a lot about the cancer shield and they pay out on Lance with plenty of humor about his doping ways. Is there a way we that non Australians can view this video ? definitely worth a watch.
 

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