Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[LauraLyn]

. . . .http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...ng-Tyler-Hamilton-book.html?ito=feeds-newsxml . . . .

"Armstrong's representatives were not immediately available for comment about the book's claims."

I think Lance's "representatives" are waiting for the sun to come up in California.

 

[frenchfry]

Here is the press release by California Senator Michael J. Rubio:

http://sd16.senate.ca.gov/newsroom/...legislators-urge-us-anti-doping-agency-review

And here is the letter from the 23 California State Senators to their two US Congress Senators:

http://sd16.senate.ca.gov/sites/sd16.senate.ca.gov/files/USADA Letter to Boxer-Feinstein.pdf

Have fun, guys.

These elected officials demonstrate an embarrassing level of ignorance. They are also guilty of cronyism, as this letter is obviously drafted by Armstrong's paid liars, with most of the talking points.

They also appear unknowing of the ruling of the federal judge who deemed the USADA process legitimate. In any case, the arbitration process has existed for many years (and in many countries) and hundreds of athletes have been through it - why the special treatment for Armstrong? Money? Political influence?

The signatories also don't appear to have much understanding of the facts of the case. Doping positives that have been covered up by the governing body (UCI) should not be discounted. Do these senators actually know what evidence USADA has? Certainly not, but they are willing to parody the lies and should eventually be brought to task for being so blatantly partial in a disciplinary procedure that doesn't even concern them.

In any case, a review of USADA would likely be a positive thing, as it would demonstrate that the due process procedures are indeed robust and provide ample protection for athletes. Hopefully the USADA also proves to be tamper-proof from meddling and corrupt politicians.

 

[LauraLyn]

Anti-doping Day

These elected officials demonstrate an embarrassing level of ignorance. . . . .and should eventually be brought to task for being so blatantly partial in a disciplinary procedure that doesn't even concern them.

. . . .

"Il vient une heure où protester ne suffit plus : après la philosophie, il faut l’action." Les Misérables

A suggestion:

August 23: Anti-doping Day.

Every year the 23rd of August should be celebrated as anti-doping day. We should mark the day Lance quit with an international day against doping in cycling and in sports. Or it could just be called "Sports Integrity Day."

We could propose this from The Clinic to USADA and WADA.

 

[Maxiton]

It's all well and good to complain here in the Clinic about how these state senators are embarrassing themselves and so on; but don't lose site of the fact we're talking about 23 state senators. Twenty-three of them putting their signatures on a piece of paper, in a fashion reminiscent of the country's founding documents, that is intended to set the stage for the complete gutting of USADA - and along with it no doubt, the overturning of its decision regarding LA.

Alongside this we see the endorsement of LA by the Navy Seals triathlon coming up, in which he will apparently participate. This might seem a minor thing, but it isn't.

EDIT: And doesn't anyone find it curious that all this takes place in California - home of much military-industrial concern, as well as Amgen - instead of, say, Texas or even Colorado?

And where is Race Radio? He needs to continue posting here.

 

[HL2037]

I guess all that Livestrong money that went into lobbying for Lance was well spend then

 

[HL2037]

It's all well and good to complain here in the Clinic about how these state senators are embarrassing themselves and so on; but don't lose site of the fact we're talking about 23 state senators. Twenty-three of them putting their signatures on a piece of paper, in a fashion reminiscent of the country's founding documents, that is intended to set the stage for the complete gutting of USADA - and along with it no doubt, the overturning of its decision regarding LA.

Alongside this we see the endorsement of LA by the Navy Seals triathlon coming up, in which he will apparently participate. This might seem a minor thing, but it isn't.

They are embarassing not only themselves but their country too. Cycling is an international sport and in many countries one of the biggest. Many people are paying attention to cycling. How does this make the USA look in their eyes?

 

[thehog]

It's all well and good to complain here in the Clinic about how these state senators are embarrassing themselves and so on; but don't lose site of the fact we're talking about 23 state senators. Twenty-three of them putting their signatures on a piece of paper, in a fashion reminiscent of the country's founding documents, that is intended to set the stage for the complete gutting of USADA - and along with it no doubt, the overturning of its decision regarding LA.

Alongside this we see the endorsement of LA by the Navy Seals triathlon coming up, in which he will apparently participate. This might seem a minor thing, but it isn't.

EDIT: And doesn't anyone find it curious that all this takes place in California - home of much military-industrial concern, as well as Amgen - instead of, say, Texas or even Colorado?

And where is Race Radio? He needs to continue posting here.

These types of letters are written all the time demanding a review by congress. What they’re asking for is a review of the process within USADA. The 23 senators can’t simply pass a motion and shut down USADA or change a decision that has already been made. I hope they get their review. I hope they open the books on the case and find out that it didn’t even go to arbitration and I hope all of the evidence comes out with this review.

It’s a pointless futile act with the letter released on the same day as Tyler’s book.

What will become more worrying for the public at large in the coming days as more evidence comes to light is why has it been so easy to influence the judiciary and senators in the state of California for all things Lance Armstrong?

 

[HL2037]

"Il vient une heure où protester ne suffit plus : après la philosophie, il faut l’action." Les Misérables

A suggestion:

August 23: Anti-doping Day.

Every year the 23rd of August should be celebrated as anti-doping day. We should mark the day Lance quit with an international day against doping in cycling and in sports. Or it could just be called "Sports Integrity Day."

We could propose this from The Clinic to USADA and WADA.

Yeah, and we could all wear anti-doping bracelets. Or not.

 

[LauraLyn]

. . . . that is intended to set the stage for the complete gutting of USADA - and along with it no doubt, the overturning of its decision regarding LA.

Alongside this we see the endorsement of LA by the Navy Seals triathlon coming up, in which he will apparently participate. This might seem a minor thing, but it isn't.

EDIT: And doesn't anyone find it curious that all this takes place in California - home of much military-industrial concern, as well as Amgen - instead of, say, Texas or even Colorado? . . . .

Maxiton: you are more and more convincing on this. I see what you are pointing at in the backdrop. If Lance is really that connected, then we are all being played - could be the case.

I still don't see this getting onto the floor of Congress. And I think the USADA can wade out the storm. Indeed, it could even help USADA.

 

[frenchfry]

They are embarassing not only themselves but their country too. Cycling is an international sport and in many countries one of the biggest. Many people are paying attention to cycling. How does this make the USA look in their eyes?

Not very good.

I thought France was corrupt, but after the Birotte pirouette and now this I am beginning to realise that the USA, super constitution or not, is right up there with the worst of them.

If there is any good that can come from this, it is that a review of the USADA process will in fact validate it and demonstrate that it is indeed Armstrong that wanted his own rules and wanted to suppress the airing of any the evidence that USADA has.

In any case it will be like closing the barn door after the horses are already out - Armstrong has now been proven to be a serial doper and world class pr!ck and his image and brand have been done irreparable harm. Who cares if there are still a few idiots that for some reason continue to believe in the myth.

 

[Maxiton]

They are embarassing not only themselves but their country too. Cycling is an international sport and in many countries one of the biggest. Many people are paying attention to cycling. How does this make the USA look in their eyes?

If I'm not mistaken much worse has been done in recent years to embarrass the entire country in the eyes of the world. Why stop now?

These types of letters are written all the time demanding a reviews by congress. What they’re asking for is a review of the process within USADA. The 23 senators can’t simply pass a motion and shut down USADA or change a decision that has already been made. I hope they get their review. I hope they open the books on the case and find out that it didn’t even go to arbitration and I hope all of the evidence comes out with this review.

It’s a pointless futile act with the letter released on the same day as Tyler’s book.

What will become more worrying for the public at large in the coming days as more evidence comes to light is why has it been so easy to influence the judiciary and senators in the state of California for all things Lance Armstrong?

Yes, I'm aware that they're not asking outright to have it shut down, nor do they have the power to. If you read their letter, though, what they do ask for is new rules, whereby the athlete is afforded "protections guaranteed by the constitution, and where the prosecutor cannot act as judge and jury." They are essentially calling USADA un-American, which is tantamount to demanding it be shut down.

The problem is this: the content of their letter is immaterial. From a political standpoint what really matters is that there is a seeming groundswell of political might behind Armstrong, much of it coming from the powerful interests behind these state senators. The letter will be read, but what will be seen and understood is this.

 

[Maxiton]

Maxiton: you are more and more convincing on this. I see what you are pointing at in the backdrop. If Lance is really that connected, then we are all being played - could be the case.

I still don't see this getting onto the floor of Congress. And I think the USADA can wade out the storm. Indeed, it could even help USADA.

It actually might help USADA, you're right. Like the time that state representative got slapped down by McCain. But what we're seeing now is a demonstration of considerably more political muscle than a single state rep (who was from a minor state, as I recall).

This is not LA's political juice, this is someone else's. Or, more likely, several someone else's. But it is juice and it is being put to use in his favor, and in the end that's what counts.

 

[Microchip]

Yes, I'm aware that they're not asking outright to have it shut down, nor do they have the power to. If you read their letter, though, what they do ask for is new rules, whereby the athlete is afforded "protections guaranteed by the constitution, and where the prosecutor cannot act as judge and jury." They are essentially calling USADA un-American, which is tantamount to demanding it be shut down.

I am speecless at this. Good thing I can type!!!

Is he STILL fighting to keep these 7 wins!!!?? So much for "no one needs to cry for me." (I knew that statement wasn't true anyway.)

Someone in his inner circle has to sit this guy down and tell him how delusional he is and that he needs help. Right.Away. Before he has a meltdown.

 

[LauraLyn]

. . . . Yes, I'm aware that they're not asking outright to have it shut down, nor do they have the power to. If you read their letter, though, what they do ask for is new rules, whereby the athlete is afforded "protections guaranteed by the constitution, and where the prosecutor cannot act as judge and jury." They are essentially calling USADA un-American, which is tantamount to demanding it be shut down.

The problem is this: the content of their letter is immaterial. From a political standpoint what really matters is that there is a seeming groundswell of political might behind Armstrong, much of it coming from the powerful interests behind these state senators. The letter will be read, but what will be seen and understood is this.

I agree that the letter enters into this discourse the LA PR suits developed about shutting down the USADA. But there are some things to keep in mind:

1. The USADA case is pretty tight. We saw that in the Fed case in Austin.

2. There is absolutely no "constitutional issue" here unless one wants to challenge the whole of the arbitration process in the US. And no way does Congress want to go there.

3. There are "State Senators." Sure they have power, but California is a bit far from DC. Also, Lance & Co. raised 18 million dollars for California's Proposition 29: Tobacco Tax for Cancer Research Act. So he may have some good relationships with some of the State Senators.

I would say the content of the letter is material. It shows how much they have been influenced by Lance and Lance alone.

I would guess Weisel (from San Francisco) is the "powerful interest" behind this, along with Lance's reputation in the cancer community. I started thread on the Lance Armstrong Foundation and cycling. People here may not want to discuss that, but it is key to getting things sorted out with Lance and cycling.

 

[Microchip]

I am speecless at this. Good thing I can type!!!

Is he STILL fighting to keep these 7 wins!!!?? So much for "no one needs to cry for me." (I knew that statement wasn't true anyway.)

Someone in his inner circle has to sit this guy down and tell him how delusional he is and that he needs help. Right.Away. Before he has a meltdown.

IThis is not LA's political juice, this is someone else's. Or, more likely, several someone else's. But it is juice and it is being put to use in his favor, and in the end that's what counts.

I see! Okay, didn't think about that.

 

[LauraLyn]

I am speecless at this. Good thing I can type!!!

Is he STILL fighting to keep these 7 wins!!!?? . . . .

Someone in his inner circle has to sit this guy down and tell him how delusional he is and that he needs help. Right.Away. Before he has a meltdown.

Are you really surprised. His lawyers wrote they were still fighting the same evening Armstrong said he was quitting. I don't think it's time to start believing what Armstrong says.

 

[Microchip]

Ohmyword! I almost replied to myself again. LOL!!

Back to the original thoughts perhaps, it looks like Lance is involved.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18458

 

[LauraLyn]

It actually might help USADA, you're right. Like the time that state representative got slapped down by McCain. But what we're seeing now is a demonstration of considerably more political muscle than a single state rep (who was from a minor state, as I recall).

This is not LA's political juice, this is someone else's. Or, more likely, several someone else's. But it is juice and it is being put to use in his favor, and in the end that's what counts.

Sennserbrenner is a member of the US Congress (a bit bigger than a State Senator).

"Not Lance's political juice." Agree. It is why I said this shows a much deeper cover-up.

Lance & Co. are fishing. They are looking for some new momentum. I don't think this is it.

 

[Maxiton]

I agree that the letter enters into this discourse the LA PR suits developed about shutting down the USADA. But there are some things to keep in mind:

1. The USADA case is pretty tight. We saw that in the Fed case in Austin.

2. There is absolutely no "constitutional issue" here unless one wants to challenge the whole of the arbitration process in the US. And no way does Congress want to go there.

That's exactly what they're challenging. And why wouldn't they want to go there?

3. There are "State Senators." Sure they have power, but California is a bit far from DC. Also, Lance & Co. raised 18 million dollars for California's Proposition 29: Tobacco Tax for Cancer Research Act. So he may have some good relationships with some of the State Senators.

I would say the content of the letter is material. Is shows how much they have been influenced by Lance and Lance alone.

I would guess Weisel (from San Francisco) is the "powerful interest" behind this, along with Lance's reputation in the cancer community. I started thread on the Lance Armstrong Foundation and cycling. People here may not want to discuss that, but it is key to getting things sorted out with Lance and cycling.

No, it's more than just Weisel. Start with the chart of business interests Dim made some time back. It's Weisel, sure, but it's also Amgen, maybe some folks at Northrup-Grumman, maybe some folks in the Navy and possibly Air Force, maybe . . . . I think we need another chart.

 

[LauraLyn]

That's exactly what they're challenging. 1. And why wouldn't they want to go there?

3. There are "State Senators." Sure they have power, but California is a bit far from DC. Also, Lance & Co. raised 18 million dollars for California's Proposition 29: Tobacco Tax for Cancer Research Act. So he may have some good relationships with some of the State Senators.

I would say the content of the letter is material. Is shows how much they have been influenced by Lance and Lance alone.



No, it's more than just Weisel. Start with the chart of business interests Dim made some time back. 2. It's Weisel, sure, but it's also Amgen, maybe some folks at Northrup-Grumman, maybe some folks in the Navy and possibly Air Force, maybe . . . . I think we need another chart.

1. Because the arbitration process is rather sacred, especially for big business. You see that in every Federal Court ruling. They are not going to take down this process to save Lance. I don't think so.

2. You are more and more convincing. Thanks.

 

[Maxiton]

Ohmyword! I almost replied to myself again. LOL!!

Back to the original thoughts perhaps, it looks like Lance is involved.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18458

Thanks for that, Microchip. Looks like RR is on the case.

 

[Ninety5rpm]

This Lance Thread is more unreadable than before....bloody topics all over the place...CN cocked up.

Yes, and one of the reasons is that disparate threads get thrown in here. I started a thread yesterday asking for links to where Armstrong made statements in support of the WADA code, USADA, etc., and it got thrown in here. I have no idea if anyone even saw it, much less responded to it. Useless.

 

[pleyser]

Jose is with Lance

http://www.vice.com/read/jos-can-say-so--lance-armstrong-steroids-and-why-id-become-a-vampire

This may be a game changer, Lance can count Jose Canseco among his supporters.

In other news, Jose wants to be a vampire.

Posted because it offers a humourous look at how delusional some Lance supporters can be.

 

[Tubeless]

It's all well and good to complain here in the Clinic about how these state senators are embarrassing themselves and so on; but don't lose site of the fact we're talking about 23 state senators. Twenty-three of them putting their signatures on a piece of paper, in a fashion reminiscent of the country's founding documents, that is intended to set the stage for the complete gutting of USADA - and along with it no doubt, the overturning of its decision regarding LA.

Alongside this we see the endorsement of LA by the Navy Seals triathlon coming up, in which he will apparently participate. This might seem a minor thing, but it isn't.

EDIT: And doesn't anyone find it curious that all this takes place in California - home of much military-industrial concern, as well as Amgen - instead of, say, Texas or even Colorado?

And where is Race Radio? He needs to continue posting here.

The letter needs to be put in perspective. While it's 23 (out of 40) California state senators, all they can do is to lobby their own US senators to take the matter up in the US senate. If senators Feinstein or Boxer think it's in their interest to pursue it further, they would then have to try to influence the Office of National Drug Control Policy (ONDCP), an agency managed by the white house which provides the federal funding for USADA. A similar effort by a US congressman Sensenbrenner died after a letter demanding such hearings was sent - and USADA responded welcoming the congressman to be educated on the USADA processes.

The political downside is that Armstrong publically declined to argue his side and this due process was confirmed to be legal and fair by a federal judge. There is also increasing awareness of the background influence play which will make parties that have not been receiving Livestrong money more hesitant to extend their political necks out when the public opinion is clearly shifting against Armstrong. Tyler's book and the pending release of the USADA evidence are both events a savvy senator would wait to see before doing anything. And there's not much they can do in any case. There's very little political upside - and the only reason to act is if you owe someone a favor. The fact the senator McCain has already stepped in to support USADA makes it more visible / risky for another senator to take the opposing side.

The letter proves money can buy influence, but this feels to be too little too late. And it also proves that Armstrong is lacking friends in the white house, ONDCP, the US senate, and the US house of representatives sans Mr. Sensenbrenner.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Sennserbrenner is a member of the US Congress (a bit bigger than a State Senator).

Lance & Co. are fishing. They are looking for some new momentum. I don't think this is it.

Quite a bit bigger than a State Senator. FYI, American House of Representatives can be described as true-er democracy with all the faults that come with it. http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/whyhouseandsenate.htm

His committee assignments are in the areas of greatest interest to Wonderboy, Judiciary and Science and Technology. He's highly ranked in both: http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/biography/committees.htm

I still argue, the point of this is to de-fund USADA so Wonderboy can overwhelm them with more legal resources. Alternatively, I suppose they could try to get key USADA people fired and replaced with more compliant people. Either would be the win Team Wonderboy needs to keep the myth intact.