Official lance armstrong thread, part 2 (from september 2012)

[red_flanders]

Several off-topic posts have been removed. Also merging into the Lance thread, no new enough content here.

If you have issues with a thread, please just report it instead of flaming it.

 

[ustabe]

Wow - the acclaimation of fail on this forum!

Can any experts on here tell me the extent of Lance's liabilities on here? Isn't what it's all about ultimately?

No, it's not about Lance's liabilities. It's about preventing a known unrepentant cheater from ever participating in or influencing the sport again. And it's not about retribution, either. It's about enforcing consequences on an athlete who decided he'd do better in the court of public opinion than by answering the charges directly to the sport's governing body.

This is not difficult to understand.

 

[mewmewmew13]

If by "haters" you mean "people who called for the truth about Armstrong to be exposed even when an ignorant public defended someone who was, to any person with a basic knowledge of physiology and a modicum of logic, obviously doped to the gills, then yes, we are "haters."

BTW, you lost the war. Deal with it.

A couple of spot on posts there !

 

[Microchip]

Nothing yet?

Still hoping for a link to the interview with TT.

 

[Carols]

Still hoping for a link to the interview with TT.

No link yet.

But Showtime was free this weekend and I saw it

It's a shame it has such a limited audience has it was great. Started with Floyd flashbacks, Tyler was interviewed as was Scott Mercier. Travis was articulate and compelling. Covered intimidating witnesses, the congressional pressure put on USADA, 'donations' to the UCI and offered to USADA and death threats against Travis. He said that if USADA wasn't allowed to do their job by pursing LA then 'Shut Us Down' because that was their job; to investigate the reports. Told the Dave Z story; said that is Why he fights for clean sport, him and guys like Scott M.

Pretty amazing guy IMO. Not a hint of venom, wants LA to reveal all so he can go after the other culprits. Makes a real statement about 'Only doing my job' and 'working for clean sport'.

 

[mountainrman]

No link yet.

But Showtime was free this weekend and I saw it

It's a shame it has such a limited audience has it was great. Started with Floyd flashbacks, Tyler was interviewed as was Scott Mercier. Travis was articulate and compelling. Covered intimidating witnesses, the congressional pressure put on USADA, 'donations' to the UCI and offered to USADA and death threats against Travis. He said that if USADA wasn't allowed to do their job by pursing LA then 'Shut Us Down' because that was their job; to investigate the reports. Told the Dave Z story; said that is Why he fights for clean sport, him and guys like Scott M.

Pretty amazing guy IMO. Not a hint of venom, wants LA to reveal all so he can go after the other culprits. Makes a real statement about 'Only doing my job' and 'working for clean sport'.

Could not get on to showtime or the other CBS news affiliates in the UK

I would love to have seen it.

What i still question is why - if LA being part of the solution mattered to Tygart why He gave it no time for diplomacy. I think it mattered. I think it would have been massivlely better to have LA as part of the solution, and I think Tygart did his best to frustrate it.

It is a matter of fact that the first dialogue took place between attorneys for USADA and LA on a wednesday night 6th of june whilst LA was out of the country, and the charging letter was released only 3 working days later, dated 13th june less than 2 woriking days later allowing for preparation of it when Lance according to the transcripts was not even in the US at the time..

So if it mattered why did he give it no time, and why did he not offer an unconditional "off the record discussion" to explain what they had, what lance could expect with and without the confession at a time when Lance was back in the USA?. All plea bargains arise out of "off the record" discussions. So why not this?

Tygart did not do that. The ONLY premise on which he would meet is without explanation of evidence they had, and conditional only if Lance made a full and total confession on the record in that first meeting and only if that was immediate. Considering the thing had dragged on for a decade why did Tygart not give it a week for LA to return? Why no attempt at further diplomacy when the first attempt failed?

In my view he should have given it several attempts spaced over several weeks and several off the record discussions before calling no dice. At which point he could then say truthfully "lance was given an opportunity". I do not think he can at present.

Read the transcripts and dates. I think Tygart is as responsible for letting the opportunity pass as LA. I don't think he seriously wanted Lance to confess or he would have handled it very differently. I think he had to be seen to make the offer, which was done in the call to attorneys, but done in a way in which it could not be accepted.

Whilst LA is clearly guilty as charged on most of what has been stated, I doubt very much whether he had anything to do with the "death threats". That attempt to use congressmen to bully uSADA is more his style. There are nutters everywhere. With most murders they get a dozen or so people "confess" -so I think the death threats were probably nutters.

 

[Carols]

Hope you're not replying to me mountainm; I have you on ignore, so don't expect a response

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Could not get on to showtime or the other CBS news affiliates in the UK

I would love to have seen it.

What i still question is why - if LA being part of the solution mattered to Tygart why He gave it no time for diplomacy. I think it mattered. I think it would have been massivlely better to have LA as part of the solution, and I think Tygart did his best to frustrate it.

It is a matter of fact that the first dialogue took place between attorneys for USADA and LA on a wednesday night 6th of june whilst LA was out of the country, and the charging letter was released only 3 working days later, dated 13th june less than 2 woriking days later allowing for preparation of it when Lance according to the transcripts was not even in the US at the time..

So if it mattered why did he give it no time, and why did he not offer an unconditional "off the record discussion" to explain what they had, what lance could expect with and without the confession at a time when Lance was back in the USA?. All plea bargains arise out of "off the record" discussions. So why not this?

Tygart did not do that. The ONLY premise on which he would meet is without explanation of evidence they had, and conditional only if Lance made a full and total confession on the record in that first meeting and only if that was immediate. Considering the thing had dragged on for a decade why did Tygart not give it a week for LA to return? Why no attempt at further diplomacy when the first attempt failed?

In my view he should have given it several attempts spaced over several weeks and several off the record discussions before calling no dice. At which point he could then say truthfully "lance was given an opportunity". I do not think he can at present.

Read the transcripts and dates. I think Tygart is as responsible for letting the opportunity pass as LA. I don't think he seriously wanted Lance to confess or he would have handled it very differently. I think he had to be seen to make the offer, which was done in the call to attorneys, but done in a way in which it could not be accepted.

Whilst LA is clearly guilty as charged on most of what has been stated, I doubt very much whether he had anything to do with the "death threats". That attempt to use congressmen to bully uSADA is more his style. There are nutters everywhere. With most murders they get a dozen or so people "confess" -so I think the death threats were probably nutters.

Amazing that if the "first dialogue" was on the 6th of June that in their letter to USADA LAs lawyers open with:

"I am writing on behalf of Tim Herman, John Keker, and myself to respond to your letter to Tim Herman of June 4, 2012, and our telephone conversation on Tuesday, June 5th".

And the letter ends with:

This investigation is a disgrace; far from cleaning up cycling or discouraging the use of performance enhancing drugs, your conduct will undermine USADA's legitimacy and sabotage its mission.

We ask that you reconsider your position and agree to meet with us at your earliest convenience. We seek a constructive dialogue, but otherwise categorically reject your demands, your methods, and your conclusions.

So,no need for anymore diplomacy by USADA when LAs representatives make their position clear.

 

[mountainrman]

Amazing that if the "first dialogue" was on the 6th of June that in their letter to USADA LAs lawyers open with:

And the letter ends with:

So,no need for anymore diplomacy by USADA when LAs representatives make their position clear.

Diplomacy takes weeks not days - LA was recorded as not in the country on the few days USADA allowed.

Now read the transcripts instead of replying - see the preconditions USADA demanded for meeting which scuppered it.

Plea bargains are done off the record not on without pre condition for meeting and take several attempts. So no real attempt was made by USADA .Even if it was a working week it was far too short.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Diplomacy takes weeks not days - LA was recorded as not in the country on the few days USADA allowed.

Now read the transcripts instead of replying - see the preconditions USADA demanded for meeting which scuppered it.

Plea bargains are done off the record not on without pre condition for meeting and take several attempts. So no real attempt was made by USADA .Even if it was a working week it was far too short.

This was not a diplomatic event.
It was an anti-doping case, and they asked LA did he wish to co-operate or not, he chose the latter.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So no real attempt was made by USADA .

Proof please. Otherwise, this is more ridiculous junk.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Holy ****ing dog vomit, sh!t just got REAL: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-400_162...may-return-some-taxpayer-money-team-received/

 

[ValleyFlowers]

From the story link that ChewbaccaD just posted.

Winfrey will be on "CBS This Morning" on Tuesday to discuss her interview with Armstrong.


Also;
"Lance Armstrong is in talks to return a portion of the millions of dollars in taxpayer money his former team, U.S. Postal Service, once received, CBS News has learned.

Senior Justice Department officials have recommended that the government join a lawsuit filed by one of Armstrong's former teammates that accuses the disgraced cyclist of defrauding the federal government. Armstrong's U.S. Postal sponsorship prohibited illegal doping."

 

[Carols]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323596204578242250517426858.html

 

[ChewbaccaD]

From the story link that ChewbaccaD just posted.

Winfrey will be on "CBS This Morning" on Tuesday to discuss her interview with Armstrong.


Also;
"Lance Armstrong is in talks to return a portion of the millions of dollars in taxpayer money his former team, U.S. Postal Service, once received, CBS News has learned.

Senior Justice Department officials have recommended that the government join a lawsuit filed by one of Armstrong's former teammates that accuses the disgraced cyclist of defrauding the federal government. Armstrong's U.S. Postal sponsorship prohibited illegal doping."

That last part you quoted, THAT is the nail in the coffin.

 

[ValleyFlowers]

That last part you quoted, THAT is the nail in the coffin.

very LARGE can of whoop-a$$ just opened up there.

The question of Lance indicating he may be willing to testify (now) against others may be moot.

 

[Pazuzu]

Also;
"Lance Armstrong is in talks to return a portion of the millions of dollars in taxpayer money his former team, U.S. Postal Service, once received, CBS News has learned.

Senior Justice Department officials have recommended that the government join a lawsuit filed by one of Armstrong's former teammates that accuses the disgraced cyclist of defrauding the federal government. Armstrong's U.S. Postal sponsorship prohibited illegal doping."

Wow! I wasn't expecting this at all. I figured that with Eric Holder -- a former Clinton advisor (see Fabiani) and the one who recommended pardoning scumbag fugitive Marc Rich -- as AG, the Justice Department wouldn't be joining Landis suite.

I'm feeling slightly less cynical at the moment. It's a good feeling.

 

[86TDFWinner]

That last part you quoted, THAT is the nail in the coffin.

Yep, article claims it could be $100 million......I don't care how much Wonderboy is "worth" thats ALOT of dead presidents to pay out, that would pretty much break him financially, would it not?

 

[ValleyFlowers]

Yep, article claims it could be $100 million......I don't care how much Wonderboy is "worth" thats ALOT of dead presidents to pay out, that would pretty much break him financially, would it not?

I think the article was taking a SWAG at Armstrong's current net worth and not naming 100mil as the amount the Qui Tam is seeking.
Lance won't be 'on the hook' for the full amount all by himself.

 

[Microchip]

that last part you quoted, that is the nail in the coffin.

+ 100% !!!!

 

[ValleyFlowers]

Yep, article claims it could be $100 million......I don't care how much Wonderboy is "worth" thats ALOT of dead presidents to pay out, that would pretty much break him financially, would it not?

I think the article was taking a SWAG at Armstrong's current net worth and not naming 100mil as the amount the Qui Tam is seeking.
Lance won't be 'on the hook' for the full amount all by himself.

OK, I see finally where you're going there; Triple Damages
Under the False Claims Act, if Armstrong and others are found to have violated the act, they could be on the hook for triple the amount of the total paid under the contract. That could mean damages of roughly $100 million.

 

[AussieEdge]

From the story link that ChewbaccaD just posted.

Winfrey will be on "CBS This Morning" on Tuesday to discuss her interview with Armstrong.


Also;
"Lance Armstrong is in talks to return a portion of the millions of dollars in taxpayer money his former team, U.S. Postal Service, once received, CBS News has learned.

Senior Justice Department officials have recommended that the government join a lawsuit filed by one of Armstrong's former teammates that accuses the disgraced cyclist of defrauding the federal government. Armstrong's U.S. Postal sponsorship prohibited illegal doping."

Investigate LieString whilst they are at it..

 

[thehog]

SlowTwitch serves it up cold:

I don't need to say your name but we all know who you are. You have been the topic of endless discussions and merely mentioning your name has turned friends against each other and I actually just wished that would all stop. There has been quite a bit of speculation if you will admit to sins of the past in an upcoming interview, but in all reality it really doesn't matter. You lied to us for a long time, blamed others and threatened some of those who spoke out against you, and I am not sure if the truth you are offering now is the actual truth.

Mostly though I don't want you to return to cycling or triathlon in any shape or form. Sure you can run a bike shop and swim, bike or run as you please, but you should not be able to compete in any of these sports.

I don't have a vendetta against you, nor have I had it out for you for years. I also don't wish for you to be strung up, tortured or sent to prison, and I also don't believe that you should no longer be able to go out in public and pursue a hobby. So go play poker, darts or golf, but in terms of competing in triathlon or cycling You Are Not Welcome Here Anymore.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Opinion/You_Are_Not_Welcome_Here_Anymore_3322.html

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Yep, article claims it could be $100 million......I don't care how much Wonderboy is "worth" thats ALOT of dead presidents to pay out, that would pretty much break him financially, would it not?

It's all a problem of liquidity when the bill comes due.

 

[Oldman]

OK, I see finally where you're going there; Triple Damages
Under the False Claims Act, if Armstrong and others are found to have violated the act, they could be on the hook for triple the amount of the total paid under the contract. That could mean damages of roughly $100 million.

And this is where we find out how much of a lapdog Lance is to his promotional cabal. Upstream of him are several billionaires who actively revelled in the commercial and personal glory that was their creation: Cancer Jesus. Lance can share the pain, particularly if he flips and finds a way to make Landis remember things more, er...conveniently. Sorry Lance. Floyd knows you and the upside of standing his ground. You're going to have to rat out your "friends".
Oh...and Bono wants the cost of several bottles of fine Chateauneuf back. Send cash.