Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[MarkvW]

Here is the issue dear Mark: You came in with a specific legally defined term and told someone they were wrong (without supplying them with the definition you were relying on). Well, there is always an argument, but wouldn't (based on the case you cited: Gaudin) a jury (or judge if no jury was chosen) be the one to make that determination?

All that poster did was refer to the fact that the testimony Lance (your hero) gave was likely perjury because of the proceeding. Have you listened to the testimony in question? Do you know the current cases that testimony might "materially" affect? Are the obviously dishonest responses Lance gave related to the issues in question in those other cases? If they are, it is likely that the testimony Lance gave would fall under the definition of "material" supplied by Kungys? Is there anything in Gaudin that would suggest that, because a jury can determine the mixed question of law and fact related to whether the testimony is material, a jury would not apply the meaning given by Kungys? I realize these are leading questions, but that's because so many times here, you've made legal arguments that were...what't the word I'm looking for?...Wrong, yea, they were wrong. I'm just trying to do you a solid.

BTW, when are Lance's attorneys going to make a motion for Summary Judgment in the SCA case?... Even when you think you're right, you aren't.

BTW#2: Did you ever find the proof that Frankie "helped Lance dope?" Still waiting on that.

And I'm still trying to understand your theory about the application of equitable estoppel to criminal statutes of limitations. To say that was goofy is an understatement.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

And I'm still trying to understand your theory about the application of equitable estoppel to criminal statutes of limitations. To say that was goofy is an understatement.

Thanks for admitting you didn't know what you were talking about here. I appreciate that.

BTW, I don't remember ever making such a claim about SOL's. But lying is your second language, so who is surprised about that?

 

[DanielsDad]

Lemond, US Postal TTT and Top 30

So Lemond made this statement about Lance was a top 30ish rider. Never mind that likely 25 of the top 30 also had a program similar - maybe not as good as Lance's.

Remember that US Postal machine in the TTT vs. the rest of the teams? I remember these other team riders just riding away from their teams having then to wait for them.

USPS was a smooth organized machine almost like a synchronized swimming team (not that I have ever watched that).

I would think even riders not all jacked up that could ride like USPS would turn better times than the other teams that could not ride together.

Just something I thought about how this "top 30" remark made little sense - to me.

 

[D-Queued]

So Lemond made this statement about Lance was a top 30ish rider. Never mind that likely 25 of the top 30 also had a program similar - maybe not as good as Lance's.

Remember that US Postal machine in the TTT vs. the rest of the teams? I remember these other team riders just riding away from their teams having then to wait for them.

USPS was a smooth organized machine almost like a synchronized swimming team (not that I have ever watched that).

I would think even riders not all jacked up that could ride like USPS would turn better times than the other teams that could not ride together.

Just something I thought about how this "top 30" remark made little sense - to me.

Sorry, but I couldn't make any sense of this explanation of how the top 30 remark didn't make any sense for you.

Dave.

 

[RobbieCanuck]

The guy that play's Lance is to fat. Give him some aicar already lol

How about too fat as opposed to also fat

 

[Bosco10]

Sorry, but I couldn't make any sense of this explanation of how the top 30 remark didn't make any sense for you.

Dave.

lol.. I thought I was the only one who couldn't.

 

[DanielsDad]

Sorry, but I couldn't make any sense of this explanation of how the top 30 remark didn't make any sense for you.

Dave.

Oh - I thought suggesting Lance was only a top 30 without PEDs was off the mark by quite a bit.

Based on things like TTTs, preparation in wind tunnels and that most the others were using PEDs as well. I would think he would still be a top 5.

So his comment made sense as to what he was saying - I just don't agree.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

So Lemond made this statement about Lance was a top 30ish rider. Never mind that likely 25 of the top 30 also had a program similar - maybe not as good as Lance's.

Remember that US Postal machine in the TTT vs. the rest of the teams? I remember these other team riders just riding away from their teams having then to wait for them.

USPS was a smooth organized machine almost like a synchronized swimming team (not that I have ever watched that).

I would think even riders not all jacked up that could ride like USPS would turn better times than the other teams that could not ride together.

Just something I thought about how this "top 30" remark made little sense - to me.

When you wrote that, were there tissues and lubrication anywhere near you?

 

[D-Queued]

Oh - I thought suggesting Lance was only a top 30 without PEDs was off the mark by quite a bit.

Based on things like TTTs, preparation in wind tunnels and that most the others were using PEDs as well. I would think he would still be a top 5.

So his comment made sense as to what he was saying - I just don't agree.

TTT's?

Sorry, you lost me right there.

An undoped CVV beat a doped Lance in a TT at a training camp.

An undoped Lance would have caused his team to have to wait for him in the TTT.

Dave.

 

[DanielsDad]

TTT's?

The US Postal Team Time Trial was better executed by USPS than the other teams I saw televised. Maybe they just showed the bad teams on TV.
Just looking at it and their smooth transitions. All speed and any PEDs aside - they were just better than everyone else.
Like riding cobbles, TTs, crossing fields to avoid a crash etc., there is more to it than just the PED results.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

That smell, I recognize that smell.

 

[BroDeal]

That smell, I recognize that smell.

This time he tried to glide in under the radar by posting in other forums before turning his attention to the defense of Armstong. Maybe this time he won't threaten your wife.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

Like riding cobbles, TTs, crossing fields to avoid a crash etc., there is more to it than just the PED results.

I bet Lance even pioneered the concept of APM (Advanced Pillow Management) before it fell under the umbrella of marginal gains.

 

[Bosco10]

This time he tried to glide in under the radar by posting in other forums before turning his attention to the defense of Armstong. Maybe this time he won't threaten your wife.

OK now wait a minute.. mountain man in da house?

 

[frenchfry]

Sorry, but I couldn't make any sense of this explanation of how the top 30 remark didn't make any sense for you.

Dave.

Armstrong might have only been top 30 on the bike, but he is #1 at bringing out the trolls/interns. No one else is even close.

 

[MarkvW]

Armstrong might have only been top 30 on the bike, but he is #1 at bringing out the trolls/interns. No one else is even close.

I can see the trolls, but I can't see the interns. If Livestrong uses its people to help Lance now (when promoting him is no longer part of its mission), seems to me that they might really jeopardize their tax exempt status.

 

[Stingray34]

Anyone who defends Armstrong or USPS is a choad.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Oh - I thought suggesting Lance was only a top 30 without PEDs was off the mark by quite a bit.

Based on things like TTTs, preparation in wind tunnels and that most the others were using PEDs as well. I would think he would still be a top 5.

So his comment made sense as to what he was saying - I just don't agree.

MAX top 30 was what LeMond has said.

Without PED u say, well, it is very well known young USA riders were doped without their knowing so how can we be sure what a non - doped Armstrong could do? In 1991 he won the Settimana Ciclistica Lombarda, final GC:
1.º Lance ARMSTRONG (USA) in 29h 58' 28" alla media di 42.57 km/h
2.º Fabio BORDONALI (ITA) a 0h 1' 35"
3.º Wladimir BELLI (ITA) a 0h 2' 30"
4.º Nathan REISS (USA) a 0h 2' 31"
5.º Roman KREUZIGER (TCH) a 0h 2' 43"
6.º Mariano PICCOLI (ITA) a 0h 3' 2"
7.º Massimo ZANOLETTI (ITA) a 0h 3' 13"
8.º Maurizio VANDELLI (ITA) a 0h 3' 31"
9.º Massimo PODENZANA (ITA) a 0h 4' 14"
10.º Marco PANTANI (ITA) a 0h 5' 38"
11.º Oliver PENNEY (SUI) a 0h 5' 49"
12.º Barton BOWEN (USA) a 0h 7' 59"
13.º Silvano LORENZON (ITA) a 0h 11' 18"
14.º Israel Antonio OCHOA PLAZAS (COL) a 0h 12' 1"
15.º Walter MAGNAGO (ITA) a 0h 12' 11"

That is actually pretty good. Undoped? Nah, we cant say that. Tour de l'Avenir results? Non.
This rider:

turning into this rider:

or even this one:

can only be the result of hard work and dedication, and a 'little' PED's.

EPO Lance of 1995 could only become 36 at the Tour. Pack fodder in the high mountains.
http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1992/08/26/pagina-34/1262979/pdf.html#&mode=fullScreen

Dead last in his pro - debut at San Sebastian, 2 weeks later on the podium at Zurich? Hell of an improvement.

Your TTT story is funny though.

You should read the Sports International story on him, especially the part were it handles 'elevated' testosterone values of a certain rider.

 

[Benotti69]

I can see the trolls, but I can't see the interns. If Livestrong uses its people to help Lance now (when promoting him is no longer part of its mission), seems to me that they might really jeopardize their tax exempt status.

raceradio alluded to it a few pages ago. RR was bang on the money about Armstrong so i guess he will be bang on about the minions in liestrong hq trolling the interweb on behalf of their leader.

 

[IndianCyclist]

1.º Lance ARMSTRONG (USA) in 29h 58' 28" alla media di 42.57 km/h
2.º Fabio BORDONALI (ITA) a 0h 1' 35"
3.º Wladimir BELLI (ITA) a 0h 2' 30"
4.º Nathan REISS (USA) a 0h 2' 31"
5.º Roman KREUZIGER (TCH) a 0h 2' 43"
6.º Mariano PICCOLI (ITA) a 0h 3' 2"
7.º Massimo ZANOLETTI (ITA) a 0h 3' 13"
8.º Maurizio VANDELLI (ITA) a 0h 3' 31"
9.º Massimo PODENZANA (ITA) a 0h 4' 14"
10.º Marco PANTANI (ITA) a 0h 5' 38"
11.º Oliver PENNEY (SUI) a 0h 5' 49"
12.º Barton BOWEN (USA) a 0h 7' 59"
13.º Silvano LORENZON (ITA) a 0h 11' 18"
14.º Israel Antonio OCHOA PLAZAS (COL) a 0h 12' 1"
15.º Walter MAGNAGO (ITA) a 0h 12' 11"

The same name of a rider after 22 years, what the odds of that happening?

 

[MarkvW]

raceradio alluded to it a few pages ago. RR was bang on the money about Armstrong so i guess he will be bang on about the minions in liestrong hq trolling the interweb on behalf of their leader.

I gots no faith in allusions.

 

[Benotti69]

I gots no faith in allusions.

Considering Armstrong spent millions of liestrong dollars on lobbying to try and sink Tygart from DC why not have interns troll the comments sections and forums. Aint no allusion. Par for the course of Armstrong.

 

[MarkvW]

Considering Armstrong spent millions of liestrong dollars on lobbying to try and sink Tygart from DC why not have interns troll the comments sections and forums. Aint no allusion. Par for the course of Armstrong.

You're assuming that Armstrong is still using Livestrong like his tool. That might be true, but I've seen no evidence of it. Any evidence of a continued Armstrong association would be a death-blow for Livestrong. I have a hard time imagining that it would risk it (note that Armstrong will likely be deposed on the Livestrong relationship). But I've seen stupider things in pro cycling...

Just seems to me that the days of the paid trolling is over for Lance because (a) he can't afford it; and (b) his reputation is so deep in the toilet that it wouldn't help.

 

[thehog]

You're assuming that Armstrong is still using Livestrong like his tool. That might be true, but I've seen no evidence of it. Any evidence of a continued Armstrong association would be a death-blow for Livestrong. I have a hard time imagining that it would risk it (note that Armstrong will likely be deposed on the Livestrong relationship). But I've seen stupider things in pro cycling...

Just seems to me that the days of the paid trolling is over for Lance because (a) he can't afford it; and (b) his reputation is so deep in the toilet that it wouldn't help.

Livestrong still exists?

I think they are life support mode these days looking for a new angle. Or a new angel.

 

[Benotti69]

You're assuming that Armstrong is still using Livestrong like his tool. That might be true, but I've seen no evidence of it. Any evidence of a continued Armstrong association would be a death-blow for Livestrong. I have a hard time imagining that it would risk it (note that Armstrong will likely be deposed on the Livestrong relationship). But I've seen stupider things in pro cycling...

Just seems to me that the days of the paid trolling is over for Lance because (a) he can't afford it; and (b) his reputation is so deep in the toilet that it wouldn't help.

I was talking in the past tense reread.