Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[BroDeal]

If we wish to discuss what GH says, or the why nows, fine - but doing what you did (even if I was not included) will only bring the convo away from discussing the actual issue.

It is too late for that. The issue has become, "ZOMG! Hincapie smeared the Andreus with the truth." Armstrong probably felt the same way about the Andreus.

 

[Race Radio]

And I quote:

“I know Frankie was part of the whole system as well,” Hincapie says of doping in the sport. “Once he left cycling, he was very opinionated...

Not a mention of USPS in there. No mention of being equal to Lance and George. None. That section of the article is about how Hincapie could not understand how Andrue could dope then attack the sport and hurt his friends. It is the same opinion he expressed to Andreu ten years ago.

It appears you missed the part where George says Frankie was "Demanding" drugs or Lance says Frankie doped " like all of us".....The title of the story was "Armstrong, Hincapie say there is more to the Andreus' story"

This is nothing more then an attempt to paint Frankie as an equal participant, the same as Lance and George. Most can see this is nonsense.

 

[thehog]

Did you miss this?

I am not saying it is mandatory he apologizes to Betsy......but smearing her is a bad move. Equating her to the wife brought drugs for riders and transported EPO in a baby carriage is not the best move. Intentionally obfuscating the facts to smear Travis is not a smart move......but you are entitled to your own view

I think this is a case of less emotion and more practical analysis of the entire situation at 10,000 feet.

He has a $100 million law suit with the Government sitting on his doorstep. All of his actions are lead from dealing with getting this very large malignant and tumorous cancer removed with the minimal impact (financially) as possible. All his actions are about that fact.

If he apologizes to Emily O'Reily that's because it means little to his resultant monetary situation.

Acknowledging hospital rooms cannot happen for that fact. Additionally he cannot speak to the A's as they are witnesses. He cannot have a conversation with either of them beyond what has occurred. You can certainly understand his fear of being recorded.

Trust me. Lance is only thinking about his bank balance right now. Somewhere in his house there is a whiteboard on what he can give up, spend and not afford to lose.

In terms of the smearing and interviews. Everyone has said a few words in the press. Crow, B, Lance and Hincapie.

They're all just giving their shade of grey. Impartiality would help.

 

[Race Radio]

I wonder how long it will be before GH starts dishing on Zabriskie. Then I'll know it's about the book.

I expect the opposite. George will backtrack. This mess has opened his eyes

 

[the sceptic]

It appears you missed the part where George says Frankie was "Demanding" drugs or Lance says Frankie doped " like all of us".....The title of the story was "Armstrong, Hincapie say there is more to the Andreus' story"

This is nothing more then an attempt to paint Frankie as an equal participant, the same as Lance and George. Most can see this is nonsense.

You said you knew Lance had been shopping the story around for months hoping someone would bite. How do you know that? Or was it just your opinion?

 

[Race Radio]

I think this is a case of less emotion and more practical analysis of the entire situation at 10,000 feet.

He has a $100 million law suit with the Government sitting on his doorstep. All of his actions are lead from dealing with getting this very large malignant and tumorous cancer removed with the minimal impact (financially) as possible. All his actions are about that fact.

If he apologizes to Emily O'Reily that's because it means little to his resultant monetary situation.

Acknowledging hospital rooms cannot happen for that fact. Additionally he cannot speak to the A's as they are witnesses. He cannot have a conversation with either of them beyond what has occurred. You can certainly understand his fear of being recorded.

Trust me. Lance is only thinking about his bank balance right now. Somewhere in his house there is a whiteboard on what he can give up, spend and not afford to lose.

In terms of the smearing and interviews. Everyone has said a few words in the press. Crow, B, Lance and Hincapie.

They're all just giving their shade of grey. Impartiality would help.

Do you actually read what I write before you respond?

This is not about an apology. I made no mention of the hospital room. He does not need to talk to either of them. My point is clear. Smearing Travis, Betsy, Frankie, etc is the wrong move. It will not help, it will only hurt.

No wonder so many of his co-conspirators have walked from him. His grasp on reality is tenuous at best

 

[RownhamHill]

Very interesting thread. This post nails it. The likes of Hincapie should be allowed to talk about how they saw it without people using underhand tactics against them. He only said what we all presumed to be true anyway, didn't he? Without Betsy, Frankie would have stayed in the team and on the program. Who doesn't believe that? The case against Armstrong is good enough without all these smear tactics and conspiracy theories about people who tell the truth about the wider situation.

Lance, is that you?

 

[gooner]

Not this sh!t again. Hincapie never said Andreu doped to the same level as himself and LA. He acknowledged that Andreu stopped before he did. He only said that Andreu was part of the doping system in cycling (true) and Andreu has not let on to full extend of his doping (something that pretty much everyone here suspects).

Can't we deal with what Hincapie actually said? You guys are so wrapped up in why he said it and the timing that there has been scant effort devoted to whether what he said is true.

With hindsight it now appears some of what Armstrong said about Walsh, Tygart, and Betsy is true, and you guys cannot deal with it. The truth it turns out is a lot more complicated than Armstrong doped and is a blue ribbon winning a-hole. Some of the good guys are not looking so good anymore.

You don't honestly believe that tripe from Lance that Walsh is similar as him and have a lot in common.

 

[RownhamHill]

Hi Lance.



That's pretty good. You stay up all night thinking it up?



Obvious to whom? Which of his comments were obvious?

Beaten to the punch!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

That's funny.

That 'you guys' was to the trolls - and I have no hesitation in naming them, but it will lead to a flame war.

Which is exactly what shouldn't happen on this thread.

It is too late for that. The issue has become, "ZOMG! Hincapie smeared the Andreus with the truth." Armstrong probably felt the same way about the Andreus.

No, its not. If you have a problem with RR address RR. If you have a problem with someone else address them.

I agree with you that GH comments were not particularly controversial, new or untruthful. But I also think the timing is most curious and shows that it is just done for effect of others involved in the Qui Tam case.

 

[Netserk]

That 'you guys' was to the trolls - and I have no hesitation in naming them, but it will lead to a flame war.

Which is exactly what shouldn't happen on this thread.

Why not do it in the same thread as your post then? There isn't exactly happening a whole lot lately.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

A large problem here recently is putting people in groups to dismiss them - quite frankly I expect better from you. If we wish to discuss what GH says, or the why nows, fine - but doing what you did (even if I was not included) will only bring the convo away from discussing the actual issue.

That's funny.

If you guys are so convinced in your argument, how does using underhand tactics help that?

 

[thehog]

Do you actually read what I write before you respond?

This is not about an apology. I made no mention of the hospital room. He does not need to talk to either of them. My point is clear. Smearing Travis, Betsy, Frankie, etc is the wrong move. It will not help, it will only hurt.

No wonder so many of his co-conspirators have walked from him. His grasp on reality is tenuous at best

Your point is clear but I'm not sure what it means and as explained his only move now is to hold on to what he got.

Btw what what happened to JV on the smear list?

Lance just got a lifetime ban and is ruined for life. How do you think he's dealing with them apples? He's blaming people and himself. Of course he's p1ssed with the world and USADA. Is he verbalising this? Yes to whomever will bother to listen.

Did he deserve it? Of course he did but the recent comments in the Detroit Free Press is mere commentary. Little more.

But I think with less emotion you may see the bigger picture.

I know you know more and can't say but I think you're trying to drum up some support for your friends rather than take a practical look at the events.

I mean with all respect as well. I'm not deliberately trying to be difficult or distort what you write. It's just the view I currently hold.

I'm the big picture guy

 

[DirtyWorks]

It is too late for that. The issue has become, "ZOMG! Hincapie smeared the Andreus with the truth." Armstrong probably felt the same way about the Andreus.

I don't think so.

Maybe it's as non-controversial as the editor approving a salacious title. Who dredged up Hincapie for an interview?
Maybe it's as controversial as a packaged story, with some kind of salacious working title. Who dredged-up George?
Maybe it's some other chain of events. Why interview George now?

How media content works in 2014 is PR people pitch stories. This story got pitched. How do I know? How many writers are going to ring up Hincapie years later, much less care who he is outside of sport-specific publications?

Maybe there is no dark motive. It's possible. Fine. I'll own mine as another crackpot theory.

 

[86TDFWinner]

How many years later? With that story title? Was George just itching to generate doubts about Frankie all these years and couldn't find ANYBODY ELSE to run an interview at any other time?

Good post! that was my point earlier, why now? why wait till AFTER the fact to start bringing this all up? Why didn't he bring this stuff out/up w/USADA, or BEFORE Wonderboy "admitted" on Doprah, what he did. You got what i was saying there.

Like i said, it just reeks of GH trying some sort of damage control to minimize him in some way.

 

[thehog]

Good post! that was my point earlier, why now? why wait till AFTER the fact to start bringing this all up? Why didn't he bring this stuff out/up w/USADA, or BEFORE Wonderboy "admitted" on Doprah, what he did. You got what i was saying there.

Like i said, it just reeks of GH trying some sort of damage control to minimize him in some way.

Yes George should have brought t up during the 2004 Tour. Or maybe the 2005 when he won a stage.

He did bring this up with USADA and he repeated it in the Gibney movie and this is the 3rd time he's told the same story.

Did you not see all this?

 

[86TDFWinner]

How many years later? With that story title? Was George just itching to generate doubts about Frankie all these years and couldn't find ANYBODY ELSE to run an interview at any other time?

Good post! that was my point earlier, why now? why wait till AFTER the fact to start bringing this all up, or push it further? Why didn't he bring this stuff out/up w/USADA, or BEFORE Wonderboy "admitted" on Doprah, what he did. You got what i was saying there.

Like i said, it just reeks of GH trying some sort of damage control to minimize his involvement in some way.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why not do it in the same thread as your post then? There isn't exactly happening a whole lot lately.

You know what, I have no idea what you mean. I respond to people posts wherever they post them. Its up to the mods to mod.

I prefer to discuss what GH said, as it is indeed relevant to this the LA thread - if you wish to discuss me and/or explain what you mean then I will respond, up to you.

That's funny.

Whats funny is you don't actually understand the difference.

I wish to discuss GH, what he actually said, now if someone wishes to do as you do and distort what is said, and attempt to put my views along with someone else's I will respond in kind.

Unlike you, Bro has a good argument, and he is capable of articulating it without having a meltdown if someone disagrees with him.

 

[Netserk]

You know what, I have no idea what you mean. I respond to people posts wherever they post them. Its up to the mods to mod.

I prefer to discuss what GH said, as it is indeed relevant to this the LA thread - if you wish to discuss me and/or explain what you mean then I will respond, up to you.

I get why this thread shouldn't be flooded. But the post of yours that I quoted was from the Sky thread. I didn't suggest that you should name names in this thread, but in the Sky thread.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Your point is clear but I'm not sure what it means and as explained his only move now is to hold on to what he got.

Btw what what happened to JV on the smear list?

Lance just got a lifetime ban and is ruined for life. How do you think he's dealing with them apples? He's blaming people and himself. Of course he's p1ssed with the world and USADA. Is he verbalising this? Yes to whomever will bother to listen.

Did he deserve it? Of course he did but the recent comments in the Detroit Free Press is mere commentary. Little more.

But I think with less emotion you may see the bigger picture.

I know you know more and can't say but I think you're trying to drum up some support for your friends rather than take a practical look at the events.

I mean with all respect as well. I'm not deliberately trying to be difficult or distort what you write. It's just the view I currently hold.

I'm the big picture guy

I agree with most of what you write - but again the issue is why LA with GH is talking now, to a publication in the Andreus backyard?

For me, it is not so much an attempt to smear the Andreus, but a warning to others who may be called up for the Qui Tam that this can happen to them too.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Yes George should have brought t up during the 2004 Tour. Or maybe the 2005 when he won a stage.

He did bring this up with USADA and he repeated it in the Gibney movie and this is the 3rd time he's told the same story.

Did you not see all this?

I don't think there's anyone left arguing the affidavit, Gibney, and interview aren't consistent. I know I'm not and I was wrong doing so earlier.

Hincapie is the opposite of a significant actor in the story. Why in the world would he of all people get an interview? How in the world did the interview happen? Why the salacious, utterly misleading, the title?

 

[sittingbison]

OK, although its fun reading.... On a car crash level.... And more fun reading the ripostes, dark Knight is outta here.

And I will remind you all, it's about Lance, and what George said. Not attacking other forum members

Cheers
Bison

 

[Race Radio]

He did bring this up with USADA

Really? Could you point out the part in George's affidavit where he says Frankie demanded drugs and seeing EPO in Frankie's fridge had such an impact on him?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Why the salacious, utterly misleading, the title?

Page views.

 

[Granville57]

Awesome.

So the thread gets locked down with a statement that it will be reopened with some new rules for going forward.

Some posts are deleted (at least one of mine was).

The thread is reopened (with no new rules that I can spot, or the reason for the lock down).

The EXACT same arguments over which arguments should argued are then presented in the same argumentative fashion.

And the only thing "new" that seems to have occurred is the following (perhaps in a slightly different order).

Glad we had to wait for that.