Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[aphronesis]

Besides the good people who read the Detroit Free Press, and us here - what traction has this story got? None.

The preference would be National or even cycling press. Those avenues are gone.


Yet he did - he was quoted in the article, on the record statements. In itself that wouldn't be remarkable, but getting his old buddie to do his first on the record article. That is quite good.

Now, if you wish to make an argument that Mr Armstrong would never engage in such actions, be my guest.

The traction would have been expotentially less had/were those here....

Sorry Rigs, one has to leapfrog psychology here and go straight to psychoanalysis.

 

[gooner]

Attorneys representing Lance Armstrong are trying to convince a Dallas County judge not to let an arbitration panel revisit a 2006 agreement that paid the now-disgraced Plano-born cyclist millions for three of his seven Tour De France victories. A hearing is scheduled Friday on that request Friday in advance of an April 7 trial during which Judge Tonya Parker will decide whether Armstrong must repay Dallas-based sports insurer around $12 million in prize money.

In court documents filed Wednesday morning, SCA’s attorney fired back at Armstrong and Tailwind Sports, which owned the U.S. Postal Service team for which Armstrong raced. Jeff Tillotson writes that the three arbitrators have no choice but to revisit the agreement in light of the cyclist’s admission last year that he doped his way through the record books.

“The triggering event for the request to reconvene was not SCA’s outside communication and unilateral influence” over the panel, writes Tillotson. “Rather, the triggering event was the revocation of Armstrong’s Tour de France titles and Armstrong’s own public admission that he blatantly and repeatedly lied to this arbitration panel and made a mockery of the arbitration process.”

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...-millions-in-prize-money.html/?nclick_check=1

 

[gooner]

The SCA response:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/207997705/SCA-Promotions-Response-to-Lance-Armstrong

 

[Race Radio]

http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/...-millions-in-prize-money.html/?nclick_check=1

Friday is the big day......Settlement Friday morning or right before he goes under oath?

Note that even though it is obvious that the case has merit the Arb paid by Lance sticks up for him. How nice

Here is SCA's filing

http://www.scribd.com/doc/208065187/SCA-Promotions-Response-to-Lance-Armstrong

 

[mewmewmew13]

Friday is the big day......Settlement Friday morning or right before he goes under oath?

Note that even though it is obvious that the case has merit the Arb paid by Lance sticks up for him. How nice

He will never go under oath will he?

there must be too many that would go under with him…so the money that he needs to cough up is not an issue compared to the oath of truth..

 

[Ramesses II]

Shame on me for being away for so long. Please tell me that I haven't missed any posts this good in all the time I've been away. Also, I'm begging that you don't tell my evil overlords the LeMonds that I'm here. They haven't assigned me to this post yet.
Also, I thought JV was pretty standoffish at dinner when I was in Boulder. No way was it because I was rubbing my hand on his plaid pants. Phew! Glad to know it's because he really hated me.
On another note, it curious that Lance had no idea that George was talking to the Detroit Free Press isn't it?

Jokes aside, it's not difficult to see why people in cycling didn't particularly trust you both after that. It's not that you were "hated", or these other words that people are injecting, it's just that you weren't the sort of people that they wanted around. Now it's all out in the open, I'm sure you get along fine with people like JV who is himself has an image to maintain and wants be on the right public relations team.

Lance hasn't been able to force George to do a lot of things for many years now. It seems unlikely to me that his remarks were part of a devilish plot. Would you even deny that Frankie used EPO before George?

 

[Race Radio]

It is so cute to see how Betsy drives the groupies nuts.....she owns them

 

[mewmewmew13]

Jokes aside, it's not difficult to see why people in cycling didn't particularly trust you both after that. It's not that you were "hated", or these other words that people are injecting, it's just that you weren't the sort of people that they wanted around. Now it's all out in the open, I'm sure you get along fine with people like JV who is himself has an image to maintain and wants be on the right public relations team.

Lance hasn't been able to force George to do a lot of things for many years now. It seems unlikely to me that his remarks were part of a devilish plot. Would you even deny that Frankie used EPO before George?

Very interesting claims ..welcome to the forum.
You must really be in the know if you are privy to the relationship of George and Lance..

what 'other words' that "People are injecting"?

 

[elizab]

Jokes aside, it's not difficult to see why people in cycling didn't particularly trust you both after that. It's not that you were "hated", or these other words that people are injecting, it's just that you weren't the sort of people that they wanted around. Now it's all out in the open, I'm sure you get along fine with people like JV who is himself has an image to maintain and wants be on the right public relations team.

Lance hasn't been able to force George to do a lot of things for many years now. It seems unlikely to me that his remarks were part of a devilish plot. Would you even deny that Frankie used EPO before George?

Yep Ram, I deny it. I don't know exactly when George started his route on the roads to peds which defined his career. Was it when Chris Carmichael was injecting him when he (George) was a junior? http://velonews.competitor.com/2000/12/news/strock-speaks_79 I know Frankie started, raced the majority of his career and ended it clean. Compare his affidavit to the other 10 guys. So, I believe George started doping years before Frankie. Maybe lance can get one of you guys to negate this?
Thank God that we were the sort of people they didn't want to be around. I'd rather be seen hanging out with Travis instead of being seen hanging out with Lance. Now that would be damaging to my reputation.

 

[Ramesses II]

Now you are using RR's favorite ploy, twisting words to meet preconceived expectations that support existing biases. People don't like to hear the Armstrong affair is more sordid and complex on the part of all sides instead of the Manichaeistic narrative promoted here. It is a simple view of the world favored by Americans. Systemic problems are blamed on individuals. Befuddlement ensues after the evildoer is removed and the the next in line, a product of the same environment, proves to be no different.

Everything Armstrong did has been recast to buttress the tale of a master manipulator. Take, for example, discussions at Motorola about EPO use. While Armstrong's position was solid evidence of his own drug use, it is a contortion to portray this as Armstrong pushing people into drug use. The talk at Motorola was not remarkable. As EPO use transitioned from a few individuals to entire teams, the same conversations that took place between Motorola riders happened at every team. The decisions to use EPO were not made by each rider cloistered with his only his own thoughts to guide him. They were made with input from teammates, staff, and friends in the peloton, all concerned for their jobs.

Armstrong is a realist. There were riders he used to be able knuckle down in the saddle and drop at will on small hills. As EPO spread, the same riders could cause him to red line on false flat as he struggled to hold their wheels. Since the drug was undetectable and the UCI had never shown an inclination to fight doping anyway, he instinctively knew this was the future. There was no stopping it.

The riders at Motorolo collectively decided to use EPO. More than just Armstrong argued for the realist view, and no one could make a convincing argument for how the team could survive without its use. In fact, one of the primary motivations that underlay the group decision for everyone to use during the 1995 Tour was quite mundane. Motorola was a comfortable, English speaking oasis in a European sport. Riders liked it there and were not enthused about moving to teams with a different culture if Motorola folded because of a lack of results. Armstrong himself was confident in his own ability to succeed if he was using the same tools as everyone else, but he wanted the team to stay together because of loyalty to his teammates even though by that time he considered himself a seasoned European pro and would likely be seeking a bigger contract from another team.

Great analysis. As you state, ot was effectively dope or go home anyway, as anyone who understands the era knows. The evidence presented by USADA is specifically the case against Lance Armstrong so obviously will only be about what Lance Armstrong said. Nobody is asked what they or others said. We should be honest about that. Lance was a cocky young man so I'm sure there are lots of quotes from him out there, but the idea that EPO use wasn't a hot topic amongst all the riders is disingenuous at best.

Whatever will think of Armstrong as an individual, people should be allowed to discuss the truth about this era in cycling without being the subject of the classic smear techniques pack ridicule and conspiracy. Armstrong has lost his tours, and will have to pay many millions of dollars to people like insurance companies. If Betsy wants to be proud about that and can't understand why Lance is so unwilling to throw cancer doctors under the bus to prove her little point, that's great. Good for her. But at some point we do have to get away from her deeply personal battles and look at the truth of cycling at the time, which was a lot broader than one rider. As the death of Pantani reminds us, the game was already fully on before Lance.

 

[BYOP88]

Very interesting claims ..welcome to the forum.
You must really be in the know if you are privy to the relationship of George and Lance..

what 'other words' that "People are injecting"?

I liked how he/she used the word 'injecting'.

 

[elizab]

yadda yadda yadda
blah blah blah If Betsy wants to be proud about that and can't understand why Lance is so unwilling to throw [his CORRUPT] cancer doctors under the bus to prove her little point, that's great. WARNING: As the death of Pantani reminds us, the game was already fully on before Lance.

Pantani biographer: Coverage of his death anniversary "self-indulgent and profit-oriented, and not entirely honest." http://ow.ly/tEcNw

Keep it up sycophants, you're making wonderboy even more of a laughing stock

 

[DirtyWorks]

Whatever will think of Armstrong as an individual, people should be allowed to discuss the truth about this era in cycling...

Please, fill us in! I'm no expert, so if you were directly involved in elite cycling at the time, then help us out. Plenty of threads with missing information.

...can't understand why Lance is so unwilling to throw cancer doctors under the bus to prove her little point,

Ooooohhhh!!!! This is a new twist on the cancer shield and like the cancer shield tactic is a fail and needs to stop. And the unsubtle personal attacks need to stop. Other than that, welcome!

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Great analysis. As you state, ot was effectively dope or go home anyway, as anyone who understands the era knows. The evidence presented by USADA is specifically the case against Lance Armstrong so obviously will only be about what Lance Armstrong said. Nobody is asked what they or others said. We should be honest about that. Lance was a cocky young man so I'm sure there are lots of quotes from him out there, but the idea that EPO use wasn't a hot topic amongst all the riders is disingenuous at best.

Whatever will think of Armstrong as an individual, people should be allowed to discuss the truth about this era in cycling without being the subject of the classic smear techniques pack ridicule and conspiracy. Armstrong has lost his tours, and will have to pay many millions of dollars to people like insurance companies. If Betsy wants to be proud about that and can't understand why Lance is so unwilling to throw cancer doctors under the bus to prove her little point, that's great. Good for her. But at some point we do have to get away from her deeply personal battles and look at the truth of cycling at the time, which was a lot broader than one rider. As the death of Pantani reminds us, the game was already fully on before Lance.

Am, wasn't the reason that "the evidence presented by USADA is specifically the case against Lance Armstrong" due to the fact the UCI sought it, because USADA had sanctioned the same Mr Armstrong because he would not tell the truth to USADA?

 

[Ramesses II]

Yep Ram, I deny it. I don't know exactly when George started his route on the roads to peds which defined his career. Was it when Chris Carmichael was injecting him when he (George) was a junior? http://velonews.competitor.com/2000/12/news/strock-speaks_79 I know Frankie started, raced the majority of his career and ended it clean. Compare his affidavit to the other 10 guys. So, I believe George started doping years before Frankie. Maybe lance can get one of you guys to negate this?
Thank God that we were the sort of people they didn't want to be around. I'd rather be seen hanging out with Travis instead of being seen hanging out with Lance. Now that would be damaging to my reputation.

You are naturally very protective of Frankie, but to my mind it's probably true. He was a more senior and older rider on the team. And I can't see why Hincapie would talk a lot of crap about it - he's quite an honest straight forward guy, which is why so many people took the USADA report seriously. Hincapie showed he is his own man before this when he didn't jump back in with Lance on the comeback. At this point, when it's the omerta in cycling has changed to being shunned unless you say only good things about you and Frankie, would he make it up? He's just recounting his experience and he should be allowed to do so.

No, it's probably true and you shouldn't be ashamed about it. It's not actually that big a deal. Most riders were doing it at that point and Frankie has already admitted to using. Lets stop trying to demonise people and create these complicated conspiracy theories that don't make much sense.

 

[Ramesses II]

Ooooohhhh!!!! This is a new twist on the cancer shield and like the cancer shield needs to stop. And the unsubtle personal attacks need to stop. Other than that, welcome!

Eh? Betsy has been quite open about the fact she thinks Lance won't admit to the incident for legal reasons (i.e have to give millions of dollars to an insurance company) and because he is protecting people like the doctors and others in the room. She can't for the life of her work out why someone might view that as more important. If you think that's a stain on her character, take that up with her.

Edit: I note Betsy has backed me up in the post before yours. She thinks it was terrible corruption by these cancer doctors and wants to see them taken out. They're bad people.

She sees lying for a cancer patient who was on their death bed and talking about very personal information as a terrible crime. I frankly think her whole priorities throughout this thing has been completely warped, but she has many supporters who think these priorities are great.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Friday is the big day......Settlement Friday morning or right before he goes under oath?

90% chance there's another delay. Which is great, because Wonderboy is charged billable hours.
10% chance he settles on Friday and declares "I'm being victimized by those fancy SCA lawyers. I'm going to play some golf, in Hawaii."

 

[elizab]

And I can't see why Hincapie would talk a lot of crap about it - he's quite an honest straight forward guy, which is why so many people took the USADA report seriously..

So just to be clear, we should now trust what George says?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Eh? Betsy has been quite open about the fact she thinks Lance won't admit to the incident for legal reasons (i.e have to give millions of dollars to an insurance company) and because he is protecting people like the doctors and others in the room. She can't for the life of her work out why someone might view that as more important. If you think that's a stain on her character, take that up with her.

You know what BPC, a while back, that was considered a conspiracy.

 

[Ramesses II]

Pantani biographer: Coverage of his death anniversary "self-indulgent and profit-oriented, and not entirely honest." http://ow.ly/tEcNw

Keep it up sycophants, you're making wonderboy even more of a laughing stock

Yeah, already seen that. I can see why being reminded of Pantani is annoying if you have a simple agenda. We can't change the history, unfortunately. If that history happens to put somebody else in a little context that is fair and just, then so be it.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Interesting how the topic went from "is George telling the truth and why now" to a 'first-time' poster attacking Betsy in every one of his posts…

seems we should maybe start waving goodbye right now

 

[elizab]

Yeah, already seen that. I can see why being reminded of Pantani is annoying if you have a simple agenda. We can't change the history, unfortunately. If that history happens to put somebody else in a little context that is fair and just, then so be it.

Please answer my question: should we believe what George says?

That is so simple, why will you not answer that?

 

[Race Radio]

You know what BPC, a while back, that was considered a conspiracy.

Didn't you hear? Perjury is OK if it is to protect a myth

 

[Ramesses II]

So just to be clear, we should now trust what George says?

I do, yes. People can remember things in different ways. The older more mature rider might not think much of a younger rider seeing something in your fridge has any effect on them. He probably can't even remember it.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Eh? Betsy has been quite open about the fact she thinks Lance won't admit to the incident for legal reasons

I agree. But, that's different than the personal attacks you posted.

and because he is protecting people like the doctors and others in the room.

Protecting them from what exactly? If they had just told the truth, like Ms. Andreau, what protection would be needed?? It's not like Armstrong doping was a secret at the time. You can thank Chris Carmichael for some of the youthful doping.