Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Benotti69]

I didn't say I'd let him return - I said 5 years before he's allowed to even ask to return. It's pretty arrogant to already be asking to be allowed to compete. How long has he been sanctioned for - 3 or 4 months so far? When he told Oprah that he "deserved" to be able to compete really made me mad.

After 5 years of working aid stations and standing with an orange flag at road intersections at crits, I'd pull a Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown and say "sorry - come back in another 5 years and ask again."

And I would continue to pull 'a Lucy' till he finally stopped asking and realised he was never gonna be allowed to compete again.

Why? To serve as a reminder to how he cheated to win and used that power to destroy people.

What this guy has done deserves a lifetime ban and then some.

 

[ElChingon]

The Conclusion:

1) Oprah got some rating and advertising dollars, heck she flew to Austin! That said it all to me. When has someone wanted to confess and lay out the rules?
2) Lance is mentioned in the general news for the next week.
3) Its business as usual at UCI central, forget the past, move on to the future.

Anyone expecting more should go call the tooth fairy for another hit.

 

[cineteq]

Frankie Speaks

"When I heard Lance’s voice on the phone I really didn’t know what he was calling for. It's been seven years since I last spoke with him on the phone. That's a long time, and this was a different sounding Lance on the phone. He sounded sincere. That tone of defiance and arrogance wasn't there. During the call he took responsibility for much that had happened to Betsy and me, and he did apologize. He sounded like the old Lance. He may not have come across that way on Oprah but perhaps that will take time as he realizes the impact he had on many people’s lives."

http://www.bicycling.com/news/pro-cycling/frankie-speaks#.UPsSEXiDpO0.twitter

 

[skidmark]

I'm curious as to what the end game is going to be (curious enough that I wanted to start a new thread discussing it, but as I cringe when I see new Armstrong threads I'm compelled to ask the question here).

This confession was, if not a disaster (which, the immediate reaction suggests it is), a pretty pathetic first step. Those of us who have been following this story for years can probably safely conclude Armstrong's motives, and primary amongst those is to be able to compete again. I think that's really what's most important to him, even more than the secondary goal of money (and perhaps having a positive reputation, but I believe he sees that only as a means to the goal of money).

If he keeps on his current half-hearted confession track, he gets nothing from USADA. Money-wise, he can Pete Rose himself into old age if he wants; there will be no shortage of scum that wish to write about his story and somehow capitalize on it. Competition-wise, he's going to have to go a lot further. I can't tell if the 'confession' interview was holding back because he's not physically ready to take responsibility for things, or if he was testing the waters to see whether he could get away with not naming names. He clearly can't.

I think that, given that it took only about two months between arrogant yellow jersey tweeting and semi-humble confession, it won't be long before he's willing to talk about Ferrari, Brunyeel, Verbruggen et al. He just needs to justify to himself that he's making the choice and coming at it from a position of power. But it seems to me that the writing is on the wall, and given Armstrong's character and burning desire to return to competition, that's what is inevitably going to happen. Tygart's not going to bend or be bought, and whether LA admits it or not, Tygart DOES hold the keys to his redemption, at least on the sporting front. And as everyone can see what lies he's still telling, I don't think he'll be let off easy.

Anyway, I predict that within 6 months he's naming names and the lid blows off the whole thing, maybe in time for McQuaid to lose the UCI election and not get tossed out while still at the head. But it's going to happen, in my mind. It will be very interesting to see who LA chooses to talk to next in the media, as they all seem ready to crucify him, and now that the prestige of getting the exclusive confession is over, the race is on to be the first one to exorciate him.

What do y'all think?

 

[Fatclimber]

armstrong gained 8k twitter followers followers yesterday, down from 16k on the previous day.

 

[FellOff]

Even if he was allowed to "compete", what is the point. Win or lose, no one sensible would respect the validity of his performance, or place any value upon it. He doesn't get this yet. Lifting his ban would damage any event he entered: it's a dumb dream.

Making a self-serving, half-arsed confession to an agony aunt after repeatedly lying to the proper authorities was cowardly and despicable. He came across as someone still bitter about his childhood and ready to fight the whole world by any means necessary. Cunning, but not too bright, he desperately needs a good adviser to guide him into doing the right thing. Oprah tried.

 

[Jethro_A]

Even if he was allowed to "compete", what is the point. Win or lose, no one sensible would respect the validity of his performance, or place any value upon it. He doesn't get this yet. Lifting his ban would damage any event he entered: it's a dumb dream.

Very true. Plus, if he returned and won it would be assumed (or at least hinted at...) he's up to his old tricks. If he returned and didn't win people would point and say "see, it was the doping". No win situation.

 

[Race Radio]

armstrong gained 8k twitter followers followers yesterday, down from 16k on the previous day.

Likely because in his new spirit of openness he unblocked a lot of people

 

[veganrob]

armstrong gained 8k twitter followers followers yesterday, down from 16k on the previous day.

Some people just like a good train wreck I guess

 

[ChrisE]

Where things stand now:

Kathy LeMond: Armstrong embarrassed, not truly sorry

I like how the rage against PEDs is not on the radar if you are a friend (American, that is).

LeMond: They tried to befriend us many times over the next year and a half, and it worked. It made Greg not speak out [about Armstrong's doping] as soon as he would have otherwise.

This was after her and her perceptive husband proclaimed "between themselves" in 98 that LA could not win the tour.

LOL yuck it up with LA and supposedly compartmentalize the PED use by the physically defficient LA because he was a friend. That is until an epiphany occured to shake that friendship when GL learned about Ferrari, coinciding with LA's third win.

This "friend" masking agent is a new one. Apparently winning 3 times is like application of the drug passport.

You people always slam the blind LA supporters who proclaimed he was clean. Most of you are no better on the other side of the coin because you refuse to look critically at the BS flying out of the mouths of LA's enemies.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Where things stand now:

Kathy LeMond: Armstrong embarrassed, not truly sorry

Wow. Poor Kathy...a good insight as to how it must be...
You're dealing with someone who's off their rocker.
The last paragraph is eerie now that it actually was exactly as she predicted.

 

[TheEnoculator]

armstrong gained 8k twitter followers followers yesterday, down from 16k on the previous day.

I wonder how many of these 24k new followers are real cycling fans.

 

[131313]

I like how the rage against PEDs is not on the radar if you are a friend (American, that is).



This was after her and her perceptive husband proclaimed "between themselves" in 98 that LA could not win the tour.

LOL yuck it up with LA and supposedly compartmentalize the PED use by the physically defficient LA because he was a friend. That is until an epiphany occured to shake that friendship when GL learned about Ferrari, coinciding with LA's third win.

This "friend" masking agent is a new one. Apparently winning 3 times is like application of the drug passport.

You people always slam the blind LA supporters who proclaimed he was clean. Most of you are no better on the other side of the coin because you refuse to look critically at the BS flying out of the mouths of LA's enemies.

It's one thing to suspect things, it's another to have nearly incontrovertible proof. I realize that differentiating between the two doesn't fit your narrative that they're "all equally complicit", but whatever...

 

[blackcat]

Likely because in his new spirit of openness he unblocked a lot of people

zing

zing

stutter

 

[ChrisE]

It's one thing to suspect things, it's another to have nearly incontrovertible proof. I realize that differentiating between the two doesn't fit your narrative that they're "all equally complicit", but whatever...

Yes, whatever. She basically claims they knew he couldn't win the tour, then incredibly goes on to say they let that ride because they were friends (though I am trying to intertwine that with everybody's opinion that he was/is an *******), while he was crushing by 7 minutes in the tour. The last straw was the out of the blue (to those under a rock in the sport) Ferrari issue, then all of a sudden we know LA's VO2 numbers to spout off in a phone conversation.

Yeah, I think it is all CYA bull**** to explain the unexplainable, but nice try with your post. GL's actions since 1989 are all over the map, one contradiction after another. It looks like his wife is inflicted with the same problem but they have clinic cover, along with a lazy press.

Methinks some of those previously associated with LA try to hard to CYA, and rationalize it away to provide red meat to the haters who readily suspend critical reasoning skills, and to make them not be critical of themselves. It's a self defense mechanism.

It is actually OK to say "hey, we were for him it was a good story. I got taken into it just like everybody else and didn't want to know the truth" or "yeah, we knew he doped but life was good so I went along with it".

Instead we have anger, rage, and tears, void of a mirror or admitting typical human traits or need for tranquility that sometimes requires one to not be so righteous, real time. There is no dishonor in just admitting that.

But typical MO is after the fact we conveniently state how we always knew and we are some type of justified victims, tossing out BS reasons to explain our actions instead of the obvious ones. The rage, the disgust, the poor me that plays so well in the present when explaining our past actions. How convenient, and effective when used upon people like 131313.

How much better would the sport be if GL would have spoken up in 1999? According to her she knew it was BS then, while her husband was mugging for cameras with LA at the tour.

I will pre-empt the reply I know you will use by stating GL always claims he does what is right. The fearless truthteller, victimized by the evil LA who he knew all along was too good to be true. The ethical gunslinger in clinic lore. Why be scared of LA's wrath in 1999, as opposed to 2001 when he was much more powerful? It's easy to sweep that away by claiming friendship is paper to reality's rock, in contradiction to our present day rep.

Yes, whatever is right 131313.

Speaking of that, I love the recent Eddy Merckx comments as well. CYA spreads like crabs at summer camp. Saw the assclown Rick Reilly on TV the other day outraged because LA lied to him. What a ***. Yes, that is all journalism is nowadays; stenograhers with no critical analysis. Rick Reilly got rich by being a regurgitating idiot. Actually, that was pretty smart. Nobody is held to account anymore accept LA, right 131313?

Unfortunately, LA hasn't been mean to Merckx or Reilly so we get to all make fun of their BS, instead of readily digesting it.

Whatever, directed at the whole lot of them. You pick and choose in your little world of reality, 131313.

 

[thehog]

2002 was a great year.

 

[northstar]

Here's one more analysis of the interview, this time a legal take on it.

http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8859684/lance-armstrong-chose-words-carefully-oprah-interview-avoid-legal-pitfalls

Everything Armstrong said was carefully worded with key words that could be used in future lawsuits. He is setting up the defense.

 

[TheEnoculator]

Here's one more analysis of the interview, this time a legal take on it.

http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8859684/lance-armstrong-chose-words-carefully-oprah-interview-avoid-legal-pitfalls

Everything Armstrong said was carefully worded with key words that could be used in future lawsuits. He is setting up the defense.

Oh God, I hope not. Any restoration of his ill gotten empire will be absolute injustice. This guy should have been in jail if not for the SOL.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Oh God, I hope not. Any restoration of his ill gotten empire will be absolute injustice. This guy should have been in jail if not for the SOL.

That's the goal and he'll get as close as he can. That means doping for age-grade wins with the Nike swoosh everywhere. The guy hasn't changed a bit. It's all about him and having the last word. Did you know he's great? He knows, and is constantly testing it.

Look at it another way, he couldn't stay away for 6 months. Not even 6 months!

I'm surprised anyone thinks there was any spontaneous anything. What can be talked about is approved with Doprah's production people. Given Wonderboy's control requirments, the order and exact questions were probably approved and White Goodman's answers planned and rehearsed to great precision.

As posted somewhere, not one mention of Lemond. Did Landis get a mention? Has that sycophant Wilcockson posted some ridiculous tripe rationalizing it so Wonderboy is still the greatest?

 

[auscyclefan94]

At a Library in Sydney.

 

[frenchfry]

Mike Anderson speaks out. Similar message as Kathy Lemond and the Andreaus. It is difficult to imagine how they survived against Armstrong and his paid thugs.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130117/mike-anderson-lance-armstrong/

From the comments, wise words for the victims:

There is never any justice for folks who are victims of people of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

 

[Fatclimber]

Here's one more analysis of the interview, this time a legal take on it.

http://espn.go.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/8859684/lance-armstrong-chose-words-carefully-oprah-interview-avoid-legal-pitfalls

Everything Armstrong said was carefully worded with key words that could be used in future lawsuits. He is setting up the defense.

Oh man I was hoping this would lead to armstrong's plunge into obscurity but it may not be so. He's going to try to revitalize his spot in the limelight. Maybe something like the "lance armstrong Cancer Surviroship Don't Take A Moment Of Life For Granted Praise Life And Praise Me Endurance Event Series" or some such nonsense to make money off of. Something that his participation would enhance revenues for.

Please no. At least I feel confident TT won't erase his ban.

 

[Surfdelux]

In her cbs morning promo interview before the airing, Oprah said that everyone in the room was "mezmerised" by Armstrongs confession.
Yeah, mezmerised by how little he actually said and how insincere he was, mezmerised by what a lightweight journo Oprah actually is.
A great match for each other. Legends with no substance and no character.
Spellbindingly shallow and dissapointing stuff.

 

[Joachim]

Mike Anderson speaks out. Similar message as Kathy Lemond and the Andreaus. It is difficult to imagine how they survived against Armstrong and his paid thugs.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130117/mike-anderson-lance-armstrong/

From the comments, wise words for the victims:

There is never any justice for folks who are victims of people of Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Now that article should be required reading for anyone wishing to utter any view of Armstrong. Really focuses the mind on what a huge cycnical machine Armstrong had working for him. No reason to think anything has changed.

 

[blackcat]

In her cbs morning promo interview before the airing, Oprah said that everyone in the room was "mezmerised" by Armstrongs confession.
Yeah, mezmerised by how little he actually said and how insincere he was, mezmerised by what a lightweight journo Oprah actually is.
A great match for each other. Legends with no substance and no character.
Spellbindingly shallow and dissapointing stuff.

Oprah, in the grand tradition of boxing and having 55 divisions, is indeed a lightweight heavyweigh obese journalist