Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Scott SoCal]

She would be wise as he has been to give the appearance of owning little and nothing of tangibility than can be sold.

No doubt both have taken a good deal of advice on the matter. You don't sit around waiting for the Feds to send the removal trucks in. You prepare.

I'm sure the Feds via the NSA have taps on all electronic communication and movements of money/assets.

If own 50m then it's worth paying someone 3m to preserve 30m.

Let's see. Using Enron or Lehmans as an example; it took so long for the government to get some of its money it ended agreeing to reduced settlements.

The Feds still have to win the case. Assuming they do there will be a judgement with penalty. One of the methods the court can award a penalty is based on the gravity of the offense. This could get really tricky as Monkeyface probably has a reasonable argument: did USPS enjoy benefits greater than the harm caused?

We'll see. Popcorn at the ready.

 

[Race Radio]

People haven't got a notion on here - they read a few legal documents and they think they do.

True. This stuff about the NSA tracking Wonderboy is comical but has little basis in reality. Somebody has been watching to many movies.

 

[Benotti69]

Clawbacks are a beach..... What are the time limits on them these days for personal bankruptcy? For most business Chap 11's it is 3 years. If it is 5 years wonderboy is screwed.

If Kristen is hiding his money she is doing it well, she had to sell her house last year and do a major downsizing.

As for Weisel, he is not completely off the hook, he is on pause. If/when the depositions expose his knowledge then he certainly can be pulled into this directly

I dont see why Weisel and those involved in this dont settle rather than have it all unravel in public. Better to lose a little now than a lot later!!

I want to see Weisel, Stapleton as well as Armstrong get screwed for the lie.

 

[aphronesis]

It would be nice if you wrote a post that actually made sense

I forgot that even though English is arguably your first language you can only deal with single clauses.

The last line of the post (yours) that I responded to is irrelevant to the preceding ones. Just as the intro deviates from the claims it wants to make. Specifically those about LA's legal/civil suits in this country as having anything to do with "the sport".

LA's problems are not about the sport at an internal level.

At a greater symptomatic level as a spectacle of late capitalism? Sure. But you're not equipped or inclined to have that discussion. Nor are any of the usual and most consistent respondents to this topic.

 

[Benotti69]

The Feds still have to win the case. Assuming they do there will be a judgement with penalty. One of the methods the court can award a penalty is based on the gravity of the offense. This could get really tricky as Monkeyface probably has a reasonable argument: did USPS enjoy benefits greater than the harm caused?

We'll see. Popcorn at the ready.

It will be hard to show USPS enjoyed benefits if they made losses in the years after sponsorship.

 

[thehog]

The Feds still have to win the case. Assuming they do there will be a judgement with penalty. One of the methods the court can award a penalty is based on the gravity of the offense. This could get really tricky as Monkeyface probably has a reasonable argument: did USPS enjoy benefits greater than the harm caused?

We'll see. Popcorn at the ready.

Yes a long time to run. A very long time.

 

[Race Radio]

I dont see why Weisel and those involved in this dont settle rather than have it all unravel in public. Better to lose a little now than a lot later!!

I want to see Weisel, Stapleton as well as Armstrong get screwed for the lie.

Weisel has been working the plausible deniability angle very well so far so there is no reason for him to settle yet, better to play stupid.

Lance has lost touch with reality. He missed his chance to settle for a reasonable amount and is now stuck taking this to the end.

 

[Scott SoCal]

I forgot that even though English is arguably your first language you can only deal with single clauses.

The last line of the post (yours) that I responded to is irrelevant to the preceding ones. Just as the intro deviates from the claims it wants to make. Specifically those about LA's legal/civil suits in this country as having anything to do with "the sport".

LA's problems are not about the sport at an internal level.

At a greater symptomatic level as a spectacle of late capitalism? Sure. But you're not equipped or inclined to have that discussion. Nor are any of the usual and most consistent respondents to this topic.

Goddam, we should all be blessed with you superior intellect

LAs problems arose from the sport on an internal level.

Late capitalism? FFS. It's far more base than that.

Criticize for the sake of being critical. It's your trademark.

 

[Benotti69]

Weisel has been working the plausible deniability angle very well so far so there is no reason for him to settle yet, better to play stupid.

Weisel is obviously a smart guy and probably has a good handle on where everyhing is at in relation to him at present, but this could tumble like a house of cards when it is on.

Lance has lost touch with reality. He missed his chance to settle for a reasonable amount and is now stuck taking this to the end.

I never thought Armstrong had much touch with reality, if he did he would've settled at 5 TdFs and started on the other races......

 

[thehog]

True. This stuff about the NSA tracking Wonderboy is comical but has little basis in reality. Somebody has been watching to many movies.

The NSA tracks and records all US citizens electronic communication. It's been established by law. You don't have the option of opting out.

You didn't know this?

 

[thehog]

Lance has lost touch with reality. He missed his chance to settle for a reasonable amount and is now stuck taking this to the end.

Think you've not read this correctly.

Armstrong had already offered a settlement figure. Maybe you missed that?

 

[Race Radio]

It will be hard to show USPS enjoyed benefits if they made losses in the years after sponsorship.

Lance has been pushing this angle since the start but I am not sure how much gravity it still has.

With Floyd's original filing I think lance had a shot. The Feds recognized this and when they joined the case they submitted an amended filing that focused on "Unjust enrichment". They are basically saying that Tailwind signed an agreement promising not to dope, but did so anyway in order to be unjustly enriched.

If they are able to pull the thread that USPS received a benefit the Feds can also use Tailwind's own methodology against them. Yes, there was plenty of positive media about Lance/USPS when he was winning, just as there has been plenty of negative media about his giant fraud.

The USPS brand will be forever associated with bags of blood, cheating, and fraud......exactly what USPS were trying to avoid when they signed their agreement with Tailwind.

 

[Scott SoCal]

It will be hard to show USPS enjoyed benefits if they made losses in the years after sponsorship.

To that end I don't know that USPS has ever been profitable

It's purely a guess but I think the case will be fairly straight forward. The determination of penalty will be much more complicated.

 

[aphronesis]

Goddam, we should all be blessed with you superior intellect

LAs problems arose from the sport on an internal level.

Late capitalism? FFS. It's far more base than that.

Criticize for the sake of being critical. It's your trademark.

Oh, look, RR's little cheerleader from the SoCal hood. Mommy help you put your pants on today?

Nothing to do with intellect sparky, it's where you choose to invest your emotions.

On topic. Someone criticized the tenor of this thread, not the content--note the difference--and RR put him down using at least two different arguments disguised as one. LA's problems are obvious, there's no point in being dishonest about them at this stage.

FFS, there's nothing more base than late capitalism.

Crit/crit. Had a new idea in the last few years?

 

[Race Radio]

The NSA tracks and records all US citizens electronic communication. It's been established by law. You don't have the option of opting out.

You didn't know this?

If you think the Feds can use NSA gathered info in a US civil case you clearly do not understand what has been "Established by Law"......or just trying to disrupt the discussion by intentionally posting nonsense again.

 

[thehog]

If you think the Feds can use NSA gathered info in a US civil case you clearly do not understand what has been "Established by Law"......or just trying to disrupt the discussion by intentionally posting nonsense again.

I was responding to another poster to which you've interrupted, yes? I'm not seeing that as disruption I see that as you interrupting to bait. Truth be told you appear uneasy with anyone other than yourself providing information on the topic.

Also you clearly didn't read what I wrote. I've said nothing about the Feds using the NSA in a civil case. Perhaps you could point me to myself making this statement?

Or do you just make up stiuff about posters, then report them so the thread can only be what you post?

Let's not go down that hedge fund route again when you looked mighty foolish and embarrassed.

Allow the views of many to be presented. It's a discussion forum after all.

 

[Scott SoCal]

Oh, look, RR's little cheerleader from the SoCal hood. Mommy help you put your pants on today?

Nothing to do with intellect sparky, it's where you choose to invest your emotions.

On topic. Someone criticized the tenor of this thread, not the content--note the difference--and RR put him down using at least two different arguments disguised as one. LA's problems are obvious, there's no point in being dishonest about them at this stage.

FFS, there's nothing more base than late capitalism.

Crit/crit. Had a new idea in the last few years?

Oh gee, I hit a nerve.

If you want to contribute then feel free. "LA's problems are obvious".... that was real deep. You stay up all night coming to that conclusion?

 

[aphronesis]

Oh gee, I hit a nerve.

If you want to contribute then feel free. "LA's problems are obvious".... that was real deep. You stay up all night coming to that conclusion?

So we'll take that as a "yes she did." I got to leave home without the diapers and slave collar too.

Good job.

What were you saying? Oooh, Feds can follow a money trail. Good extrapolation of some life's work you've got going there.

 

[Scott SoCal]

So we'll take that as a "yes she did." I got to leave home without the diapers and slave collar too.

Good job.

What were you saying? Oooh, Feds can follow a money trail. Good extrapolation of some life's work you've got going there.

Cool story, bro.

"LA's problems are obvious"... Blistering analysis.

Want to contribute now? Anytime you are ready.

Will the Feds win, how will the penalty be determined and what will the size of the penalty be?

Take a stab.

 

[aphronesis]

Cool story, bro.

"LA's problems are obvious"... Blistering analysis.

Want to contribute now? Anytime you are ready.

I don't do bonfires Beaver. Who cares? The relevant questions--if there are any--aren't your what, if and how, but the significance of the outcomes at a macro level.

But you're not hardwired for those questions. It's ok. Chuck on the chin and all that.

 

[Digger]

If you think the Feds can use NSA gathered info in a US civil case you clearly do not understand what has been "Established by Law"......or just trying to disrupt the discussion by intentionally posting nonsense again.

You're the one who brought up he NSA line - you are like most on here, speculating on the result.

 

[thehog]

You're the one who brought up he NSA line - you are like most on here, speculating on the result.

It's a bit disappointing the thread has become a one way micro-blog.

I agree with you. There are very few who are close to what is really going on and they are not posting ad nauseum on this thread.

 

[Merckx index]

I read quite sometime ago the feds were after $21 million approx to settle, is that no longer the case?

Any ideas or estimates on LA's net worth right now?

I think what was reported was that LA offered $5 million (?) to settle, and it was refused. Now that you mention it, I do recall something about the Feds wanting $20 million, but I think that might have been speculation, not something actually attributable to the Feds.

No one seems to know for sure, but various media have in the past reported LA's worth around $125 million. If the Feds win and LA has to pay all of the treble damages, I assume it would take just about everything he has. But what about the other defendants, Bruyneel, et al? Is it assumed they can contribute an insignificant amount?

Also, am I correct in assuming LA could keep that house he bought in Austin a couple of years ago? Of course, if he was really wiped out financially, he might not be able to afford to pay taxes, etc.

Another question: What does this do to the SCA case? Will they be under pressure to settle, otherwise they could be left with nothing to collect from a penniless LA? We discussed this before, but I’ve forgotten what was said.

In this case the judge appears to have found either the claim does not disclose a cause of action or that there is not a sufficient factual basis alleged in the claim that Weisel knew there was doping (I have not read the judgment, so I am not sure) This may answer your question to some degree.

If I find time to read the decision and it turns out I am not correct, I will post you.

From my skimming of this, I’d say you’ve got it right. Hope you do find the time, though it will take a lot. It’s almost a freaking book. Judge really earned his pay, I’d say.

Clawbacks are a beach..... What are the time limits on them these days for personal bankruptcy? For most business Chap 11's it is 3 years. If it is 5 years wonderboy is screwed.

Three vs. five years seems to be critical. Five years ago was pre-Landis confession, LA would have had no reason to worry about the vulnerability of his assets. Three years ago the GJ had been convened. But I guess it also depends on the date from which one tolls back.

The Feds still have to win the case.

A timely reminder. It’s easy to get caught up in the news and assume LA will lose completely.

I dont see why Weisel and those involved in this dont settle rather than have it all unravel in public. Better to lose a little now than a lot later!!

I want to see Weisel, Stapleton as well as Armstrong get screwed for the lie.

There has been speculation that Weisel did settle, or at least talked to the Feds. As far as I can tell, everything in this ruling about Weisel relates to Floyd's claims, not those of the Feds.

 

[Race Radio]

Also you clearly didn't read what I wrote. I've said nothing about the Feds using the NSA in a civil case. Perhaps you could point me to myself making this statement?

Dude, you gotta stop. You are being to obvious

I'm sure the Feds via the NSA have taps on all electronic communication and movements of money/assets.

 

[thehog]

Dude, you gotta stop. You are being to obvious

For the use in a civil case?

Retrieving money is enforcement. Nothing to do with evidence presented in a civil case.

Do you actually read anything on this thread or just 'stream' post everything? and get upset if it doesn't fit your agenda? (That is too obvious )

Allow people to discuss and if you don't like what they post then you can choose to ignore and not interrupt.

Again it just ends up like the last discussion when you went on and on on a topic you knew very little about. Let's not go down the hedge fund route again. No one needs that, yes?