Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[MarkvW]

The game is nearly up for Lance.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...trong-lawsuit-us-government-doping/10999179/?

The government is claiming an exact amount of damages. That may mean prejudgment interest. That would be a huge gash.

 

[Scott SoCal]

The game is nearly up for Lance.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...trong-lawsuit-us-government-doping/10999179/?

Floyd gonna get paid.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Are any of you guys here, familiar with a dude named "Alan D Fleming"? I just found another Wonderboy apologist in this guy. He has to be one og the biggest. Rather than get into a lengthy discussion w/him, I just left the conversation. But the guy claims he's a "very good friend" of Wonderboy, and "has stood by him since day 1"(oh boy)


Who is he?

 

[86TDFWinner]

Floyd gonna get paid.

LOL, Yep. He deserves it too.

 

[Jamie1012]

Floyd gonna get paid.

 

[Herbstrong]

Are any of you guys here, familiar with a dude named "Alan D Fleming"? I just found another Wonderboy apologist in this guy. He has to be one og the biggest. Rather than get into a lengthy discussion w/him, I just left the conversation. But the guy claims he's a "very good friend" of Wonderboy, and "has stood by him since day 1"(oh boy)


Who is he?

What do you want to know?

 

[Pazuzu]

The game is nearly up for Lance.



http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...trong-lawsuit-us-government-doping/10999179/?

Is there anything to prevent Armstrong from immediately selling off all his assets and stuffing the money in a Swiss bank account? Then, assuming he looses the Qui Tam lawsuit, there'll be nothing for the Feds to collect. Lance can then slink off to South America where his stashed fortune will be enough to provide for a comfortable existence?

 

[gooner]

Floyd gonna get paid.

I was reading this article earlier today before it was announced.

U.S. Circuit Judge Robert Wilkins in Washington may rule this week on whether the government suit may move forward, opening the door to a trial.

A refusal by the judge to dismiss the case “would be the equivalent of ‘game over’ on liability for Armstrong because he’s already admitted to the doping,” said Greg Doll, a lawyer with Doll Amir & Eley in Los Angeles who isn’t involved in the Armstrong cases. “The case would then be about damages and penalties.”

http://www.bendbulletin.com/sports/...ing-titles-armstrong-still-faces?entryType=0#

 

[Race Radio]

Here is the Judges ruling

http://www.scribd.com/doc/230513604/Denial-of-Dismissal

 

[MarkvW]

Is there anything to prevent Armstrong from immediately selling off all his assets and stuffing the money in a Swiss bank account? Then, assuming he looses the Qui Tam lawsuit, there'll be nothing for the Feds to collect. Lance can then slink off to South America where his stashed fortune will be enough to provide for a comfortable existence?

Yeah. Creditors have collection tools, and the US has treaties that allow foreign collection of US judgments in many countries. It's also fraudulent to make transfers like that. And Swiss banks are no longer the secret haven they used to be.

 

[Race Radio]

Is there anything to prevent Armstrong from immediately selling off all his assets and stuffing the money in a Swiss bank account? Then, assuming he looses the Qui Tam lawsuit, there'll be nothing for the Feds to collect. Lance can then slink off to South America where his stashed fortune will be enough to provide for a comfortable existence?

Some have postulated about "Off-shoring" but is more the result of watching too many movies and not reality.

Texas has some interesting homestead rules, it is not based on value but acreage. Anything up to 10 acres is protected. There some some places around Austin were land is pretty expensive. Lance can sink a big chunk into some land, do a reverse mortgage, and live pretty comfortably but the government will take everything else.

 

[Race Radio]

The ruling is a spectacular display of legalese, on of the more confusing docs I have read.

Found this part to be ineresting

r,

it was not solely the findings of the French investigation that supported the government’s decision to decline further investigation; the members of the cycling team made repeated representations that they were innocent during this same time period. See, e.g., Gov’t Compl. ¶ 63E (In November 2000, Armstrong allegedly met with Postal Service officials to discuss the doping allegations, and he denied them and suggested through words and conduct that they were a “clean team”). There could possibly be documents in the government’s possession suggesting that it had reason to know the cycling team was doping, despite the findings of the investigation by the French authorities, the drug tests the cycling team repeatedly passed, or any other public information tending to confirm the riders’ claims that they never doped. If so, there may be force to the defendants’ argument that the government should have conducted its own investigation sooner, and that if it had undertaken such an investigation, it would have uncovered
doping. But the Court cannot make that determination based on the present record and based solely on the allegations in the complaint, as required when ruling on a motion to dismiss.

Also, it kinda seems like Weisel might walk.....until Lance sues him of course

There are insufficient allegations that Weisel had knowledge of the doping, and without such knowledge, he could not have had knowledge of any obligation to repay the government or have a purpose to conceal, avoid or decrease any such obligation,"

 

[thehog]

Is there anything to prevent Armstrong from immediately selling off all his assets and stuffing the money in a Swiss bank account? Then, assuming he looses the Qui Tam lawsuit, there'll be nothing for the Feds to collect. Lance can then slink off to South America where his stashed fortune will be enough to provide for a comfortable existence?

Immediately?

He has known this has been coming for months. Any asset reassignment has long taken place along with investments into the tech industry.

His ex-wife, current fiancé, children etc. can be taken care of via trusts and the like and legally.

I don't think he'll be leaving the US. That doesn't offer much. He's really got no where to go but face the music and try to make an arrangement which doesn't gut him for life.

 

[Granville57]

The game is nearly up for Lance.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...trong-lawsuit-us-government-doping/10999179/?

In a recent court filing, the government claims an exact amount of damages dating 10 years prior to Landis' original complaint -- $32,321,821.94 for sponsorship payments.

Eagerly waiting for Lance's legal team to argue the specificity of the $0.94

I wonder if it relates to this dude?
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/10/news/economy/cigarette-tax/

Wait a minute! It's all coming together now. Remember these guys?

The following is a statement from the LIVESTRONG Foundation (4:50 p.m. on 10 April):

The LIVESTRONG Foundation applauds President Obama's budget proposal to increase funding for lifesaving cancer research at the National Institutes of Health and the National Cancer Institute.

The Foundation is pleased the President's budget aims to significantly reduce smoking's deadly toll through a 94-cent increase in the federal tax on tobacco products.

Back at the ranch...
Anyone care to comment on this part?

The government previously sought to have Armstrong and others testify in pretrial depositions this month, but those depositions are now on hold indefinitely.

 

[Race Radio]

Anyone care to comment on this part?

The depos are back on.

Also the judge makes it clear that the Government can go back to 1995 so the total they can ask for just went up.

He should give up, but he will not. I expect he is going to fight this to the end

 

[Merckx index]

There are insufficient allegations that Weisel had knowledge of the doping

Emma, Prentice and Greg would all disagree with that, of course.

As always, the guys with the most money are the most immune.

Also the judge makes it clear that the Government can go back to 1995 so the total they can ask for just went up.

Indeed. The ruling says $11 million was paid from 1995-2000, and $31 million from 2000-2004. If I understand this correctly, there is more than $40 million at stake, and with treble claims it could come to more than $120 million.

The relator does not allege that Mr. Weisel had actual knowledge of the riders’ doping. Paragraphs 144 through 154 of the relator’s complaint fall under the subheading “Weisel’s Knowledge,” but the relator never alleges in any of these paragraphs that any of the riders told Mr. Weisel about the doping, nor does he allege some other means by which Mr. Weisel would have obtained direct knowledge.

none identify acts specifically taken by Defendant Weisel that actually facilitated any of the alleged doping activities, nor do they show that they he knew about the doping.

This is where Floyd (the relator) seems to have erred. There was evidence he could have used.

 

[Granville57]

Emma, Prentice and Greg would all disagree with that, of course.

I found the wording of that to be a bit strange. Insufficient "evidence" would be one thing. But insufficient "allegations"?

Maybe there's a legal definition in there that escapes me (being that I'm not a lawyer, and all...)

 

[Race Radio]

Emma, Prentice and Greg would all disagree with that, of course.

As always, the guys with the most money are the most immune.



Indeed. The ruling says $11 million was paid from 1995-2000, and $31 million from 2000-2004. If I understand this correctly, there is more than $40 million at stake, and with treble claims it could come to more than $120 million.

Weisel can still be a target.....by Lance. Once the Government wins its case lance can then go sue Thom and others for $$$

 

[Race Radio]

investments into the tech industry.

Easy asset to seize.......also hard to liquidate due to lockups. Too bad he can't pay legal fees with Uber shares

 

[Scott SoCal]

Some have postulated about "Off-shoring" but is more the result of watching too many movies and not reality.

Texas has some interesting homestead rules, it is not based on value but acreage. Anything up to 10 acres is protected. There some some places around Austin were land is pretty expensive. Lance can sink a big chunk into some land, do a reverse mortgage, and live pretty comfortably but the government will take everything else.

Primary residence and he has to be 62.

In civil court, everything is on the table except tax qualified money. He could do a 72t annuity if he has tax qualified money (and I'll bet that is extremely limited) but, at his age, he won't see a lot of income.

He's going to lose much.... everything or very nearly everything, IMO.

 

[Race Radio]

Primary residence and he has to be 62.
.

As I understand it 62 (Now 65) is just for the tax related benefits homesteading provides in Texas. It does not apply to the credit and collections part

 

[Merckx index]

So Floyd issued eight counts. Three were dismissed for all defendants, while five were upheld for everyone except Weisel. None of the seven of the Feds counts was dismissed. Whether this affects how much money Floyd gets out of this I have no idea.

 

[MarkvW]

If Lance is going to sue Weasel, Lance either (a) has to have money; or (b) has to find a lawyer willing to take his lawsuit on a contingent basis.

(a) Is unlikely because the feds will make sure that Lance doesn't have any cash to spend on things like lawsuits;
(b) Is unlikely because (1) a lawsuit against a very rich guy like Weasel would cost a lot of money for a lawyer to front on a contingency; and (2) would be extremely speculative because (a) Lance has a garbage reputation for truthfulness; (b) Lance has a huge financial motivation to lie; and (3) recovery would seem to depend exclusively upon the jury believing the uncorroborated testimony of liar Lance.

It should be noted that the Feds chose not to go after Weasel (although Floyd did). That tends to indicate that there are some problems with a case against him.

 

[thehog]

Easy asset to seize.......also hard to liquidate due to lockups. Too bad he can't pay legal fees with Uber shares

Not sure what you mean or if you even know what you're talking about.

Any who.

He's allowed to live a reasonable and moderate life. This will be a part of negotiation upon at least one lump sum payment.

MarkW is right. He won't really be in a position to be suing Weisel. But nothing wrong with filing and and at least trying to get to discovery.

Crying shame the whole mess

 

[Merckx index]

If Lance is going to sue Weasel, Lance either (a) has to have money; or (b) has to find a lawyer willing to take his lawsuit on a contingent basis.

(a) Is unlikely because the feds will make sure that Lance doesn't have any cash to spend on things like lawsuits;
(b) Is unlikely because (1) a lawsuit against a very rich guy like Weasel would cost a lot of money for a lawyer to front on a contingency; and (2) would be extremely speculative because (a) Lance has a garbage reputation for truthfulness; (b) Lance has a huge financial motivation to lie; and (3) recovery would seem to depend exclusively upon the jury believing the uncorroborated testimony of liar Lance.

OTOH, LA's potential situation after the Feds get through with him can't be worse than Floyd's was back in 2010. If Weisel doesn't want to be LA to LA's Floyd, maybe he should offer LA a job on his "team".

It should be noted that the Feds chose not to go after Weasel (although Floyd did). That tends to indicate that there are some problems with a case against him.

I think the problems are highlighted in the judge's dismissal of most of the claims against Weisel. As I said before, though, there was evidence that could have been used. Emma's testimony that he was there when the backdated TUE was concocted would have been crucial. But all the other counts were dismissed, too, so clearly he would be very hard to get.