Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[heart_attack_man]

The judge also ruled that the Feds had already given lance info on how they calculate damages and they do not need to produce anything else. This may seem minor but it is larger then it seems. I have not seen any of these documents but I know from talking to experts in these type of cases how damages are calculated. Lance has tried hard in all of his filings and interviews to say that USPS received benefit from their sponsorship. He must know that this has ZERO to do with how damages are calculated. Damages are calculated by how much the Government would have paid if they knew the team was doping. The answer is simple, zero. Lance, and his lawyers, must know this......but continue to try to twist it publicly.

Just on this point, I assume that considering that one of the arguments that LA's side is putting forth is that USPS knew (or must have known) that doping was happening, so therefore this argument is invalid. i.e. They ARE prepared to pay more than zero.

So I can see where his legal team is going with this line at least. Not that I agree, but still...

 

[Race Radio]

Just on this point, I assume that considering that one of the arguments that LA's side is putting forth is that USPS knew (or must have known) that doping was happening, so therefore this argument is invalid. i.e. They ARE prepared to pay more than zero.

So I can see where his legal team is going with this line at least. Not that I agree, but still...

So far they have provided zero evidence USPS knew. They are hoping the find something during the discovery process. All of the articles they provided were a great representation of how far they were willing to suppress the truth.

 

[frenchfry]

Just on this point, I assume that considering that one of the arguments that LA's side is putting forth is that USPS knew (or must have known) that doping was happening, so therefore this argument is invalid. i.e. They ARE prepared to pay more than zero.

So I can see where his legal team is going with this line at least. Not that I agree, but still...

Armstrong and his paid thugs could argue that USPS should have known, however this is not the same thing as they must have known.

I tend to agree that anyone with half a brain should have known.

 

[Granville57]

Armstrong and his paid thugs could argue that USPS should have known, however this is not the same thing as they must have known.

I tend to agree that anyone with half a brain should have known.

If the prosecution is clever, they should dig up all records of the extent that Lance & Co. went to to protect the myth. Every TV commercial, every book, every printed interview, every denial. All of it.

How much time, money and effort went into perpetuating The Myth? Armstrong's team (and his supporters) want to talk about how much "value" they brought to USPS? Well, I'd love to see all those ad metrics applied to continued lies and deception on the part of Team Lance.


Print.
Podcasts.
Television.
Web.

All of it. Add it up. How much money did Nike alone invest in protecting the myth?

USPS "should've" known?
They could make a good argument for the contrary based on Lance & Co.'s massive PR campaign to prove otherwise.

Armstrong wants to have it both ways. Sorry, that doesn't fly.

 

[thehog]

Just on this point, I assume that considering that one of the arguments that LA's side is putting forth is that USPS knew (or must have known) that doping was happening, so therefore this argument is invalid. i.e. They ARE prepared to pay more than zero.

So I can see where his legal team is going with this line at least. Not that I agree, but still...

This should assist...


http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...ay-run-2016-uci-asked-provide-evidence_348718

It may be more than a year before Lance Armstrong and the United States Department of Justice square off in earnest, if ever.

If the DOJ and Armstrong don’t settle the looming whistleblower lawsuit hanging over the former Tour de France winner, the court proceedings could run well into 2016.

A ruling issued by United States District Court judge Christopher R. Cooper on October 3 sets the timeline for the proceedings between the parties, and indicates the court expects lengthy and thorough litigation on both sides.

The scheduling order doesn’t tilt the scales toward settlement or more court proceedings but underscores just how much material could come to light. The court and both sides seem to anticipate extensive discovery and a flurry of depositions.

Just how many? A court rule normally limits each side to 10 depositions; in this case, the judge will allow for 70 per side.

“Scheduling orders in routine cases usually have a discovery cutoff of 120-180 days; this order gives the parties almost a year. Given that Armstrong’s resources are not unlimited (as theoretically the government’s are), the extensive discovery could cause Armstrong to consider settlement to avoid the costs of taking and defending discovery,” Mark Stichel, a Baltimore-based attorney who has litigated civil cases in state and federal courts throughout the U.S., told VeloNews in an email. “But, whether it is worthwhile for him to settle to save litigation costs depends on how much money the government would demand for a settlement.”

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...d-provide-evidence_348718#JDs4Vf0wbuOrwa4Z.99

Armstrong’s lawyers also responded to a request from the government to see material from the UCI, some of which may concern therapeutic use exemptions.

The filing indicates that if the UCI does produce materials, then the defense wants the opportunity to see them within three business days of receipt “and before he leaks them to the national media so that Armstrong may have an opportunity to designate as confidential …” the filing reads.

“Given all that is known about Armstrong and his medical condition, I am curious as to what he thinks may be in the UCI records that would be confidential,” Stichel said.

 

[gooner]

Two firms that paid Lance Armstrong $500,000 in prize money for winning the Tour de France in 1999 sued the cyclist Tuesday seeking to recover the amount in light of his admission to cheating during the race.

Fireman Fund’s Insurance and the IMA Financial Group both filed suit against Armstrong Tuesday in a Travis County district court. The two companies’ prize money was part of $2 million in bonuses that Armstrong received for winning the 1999 race, the suit said.

Armstrong has been sued by several other companies seeking to recoup bonuses paid for his seven Tour de France wins that were voided after he was found guilty of “blood doping.” Armstrong confessed to cheating during an interview with Oprah Winfrey in January 2013.

Armstrong’s attorney did not immediately return messages seeking comment.

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/local/firms-sue-lance-armstrong-for-500000-over-doping-a/nhdhT/?nmredir=true

 

[Race Radio]

This should assist...


http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...ay-run-2016-uci-asked-provide-evidence_348718



http://velonews.competitor.com/2014...d-provide-evidence_348718#JDs4Vf0wbuOrwa4Z.99

That Mark guy knows his stuff.

here is the schedule
https://www.scribd.com/doc/242237657/Schedule

 

[heart_attack_man]

So far they have provided zero evidence USPS knew. They are hoping the find something during the discovery process. All of the articles they provided were a great representation of how far they were willing to suppress the truth.

Don't disagree at all - just that I assume that will be the line of defence...

 

[ScienceIsCool]

So far they have provided zero evidence USPS knew. They are hoping the find something during the discovery process. All of the articles they provided were a great representation of how far they were willing to suppress the truth.

The best evidence that USPS didn't know was the inclusion of a no-doping clause in their contract. Armstrong would have to go to some pretty extraordinary lengths to show that this was included and signed with both parties knowing it was false.

John Swanson

 

[thehog]

Yes, it would make sense to most omniscient readers that can confirm what he wrote. For the rest of us....

JU got busted for an OOC test for something other than a PED. Ergo that proves he didn't have protection for any AAF during competition. Gotcha.

The UCI 'pusued' JU after he got busted in OP in 2006, 10 years after he turned pro. The UCI does have some public history of protecting other riders, such as AC until that too became public. The sport has a history of avoiding controversy, which AAF's bring. It makes sense to some of us rubes that more was being swept under the rug than LA's doping.

I tend to agree.

Important to note that Jan Ullrich positive from 2002 was not a UCI OOC test. It was part of contracted 5 OOC tests per year mandated by T-Mobile/Telekom and carried out by German Anti-doping commission and reported to the German Cycling Federation.

Jan being caught with amphetamines had nothing to do with the UCI and them chasing him down and not LA.

The UCI appeared to not care about either during that period. Although once his DNA was matched post Puerto and he refused/did a deal with the German authorities they appealed.

Telekom spokesman Olaf Ludwig said that "The problems with his knee did not allow him to train or race, so that performance enhancement can be unambiguously excluded here."

Ludwig said that the team was of course "very concerned" about the news, but they would talk with all involved parties before making further comment.

Out of competition tests in Germany are carried out by the Anti-Doping Commission, who must report it to the German cycling federation. Telekom specify that its team members be tested five times per year out of competition.

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/news/?id=2002/jul02/jul04news2

 

[MacRoadie]

So far they have provided zero evidence USPS knew. They are hoping the find something during the discovery process. All of the articles they provided were a great representation of how far they were willing to suppress the truth.

It's the "We swore to you 50 times that we were clean, then we offered to do it again on a stack of Bibles, then we offered to take a polygraph test and we added a no doping clause to our rider contracts ,so you MUST have known we were lying" defense...

 

[thehog]

And let's not forget that a while back there were stories that LA had refused a settlement on the order of maybe $20 million. As I noted back then, he might have settled all the major cases for $30-40 million. Maybe that's more than he has, or almost as much, but at the rate he's going, he's going to spend millions extra in legal fees. It does seem he would rather fight and go down in flames than submit and live on with maybe enough for a fairly lavish lifestyle.

He didn't refuse settlement but offered $5m.

 

[Weapons of @ss Destruction]

He didn't refuse settlement but offered $5m.

That's effectively a refusal to settle.

 

[Race Radio]

That's effectively a refusal to settle.

Yup, offering 5% on the dollar sends a clear message......That Lance has no intention of dealing with this rationally.

Since this "Offer" it has been mostly downhill for Armstrong. The Feds joining the case only increased the number needed to settle. There have been multiple filing and rulings, most chipping away at lance's case and increasing that settlement number.

These filings have also given the Feds a look at Armstrong's defense. The weakness of this defense has only increase the amount needed to settle. Armstrong's lawyers know that USPS receiving exposure from the sponsorship is completely irrelevant to the case, but they continue to pretend it is a valid defense. Their babble about "Leaks" was shot down by the judge.....but I am sure they will continue with this unrelated tangent.

Armstrong's comical 180 page discovery response, the possibility of 140 depos and a year long discovery process are not good signs. This will be a long, expensive, case. Armstrong's filings contain no smoking gun that might show the USPS had clear knowledge of the teams doping and signed the agreement anyway, in fact they show the exact opposite.

Armstrong appears intent on going down in flames. His legal team have shown they are very willing to help him.......while burning through what money he has left.

 

[blackcat]

hope Gorski or Och have well hidden his francs at UBS in Zurich

whichever of Gorski or Och went to work for Thomas Weisel Partners in Bay Area and run money for high net worth person plural

 

[Benotti69]

....snip.....

Armstrong appears intent on going down in flames. His legal team have shown they are very willing to help him.......while burning through what money he has left.

Lets hope he takes others with him.

 

[thehog]

That's effectively a refusal to settle.

Well, not really.

It was so early on in the piece it hardly mattered. He was probably just dipping his toes in the water to see how serious the government was. Additionally down the line when actual judgements are being decided, courts like to see that a defendant has at least made some attempt to avoid an actual hearing and settle out of court. But $5m was a paltry offer considering the numbers that have been thrown around.

Like I said before, he probably has a white board down in his basement with the numbers and how much he can afford to spend before it he starts going under water. If he spends $10m to save $20m it might be worth it. Right now he might be on the hook for anything up to $60m. And of course if you’re going to go down in flames you might as well try and take the government to the brink, spend a lot of their money as well in the hope they might reduce their settlement goals over time. And you might just want to get a lot of other information out into the ether because you’re angry. You can also try and drag it out and bank on the upcoming election with a change in party/personnel and perhaps a new viewpoint from people in power.

Either way, he has little choice but to defend, he can’t settle now as the government is not going to accept anything less than their top price. He’s in an awful position and no wonder drinking all those lovely bottles of wine!

 

[Race Radio]

Lets hope he takes others with him.

Agreed. It is ridiculous that he should be on the hook for all of it. Lots of depos and discovery to come over the next year, hopefully the name Weisel will pop up a few times

 

[86TDFWinner]

Armstrong appears intent on going down in flames. His legal team have shown they are very willing to help him.......while burning through what money he has left.

I've said this before(as have others). He's apparently intent on blowing through as much $$$ as he can. The thought of Floyd getting a dime of his $$ must be the main driving force for Wonderboy to use this tactic.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Agreed. It is ridiculous that he should be on the hook for all of it. Lots of depos and discovery to come over the next year, hopefully the name Weisel will pop up a few times

IMO: Trek/Nike/Jokely/Georgie & a few others should be paying out something too. Throw in: Och/Gorski/Ferrari and Comical too.

 

[thehog]

IMO: Trek/Nike/Jokely/Georgie & a few others should be paying out something too. Throw in: Och/Gorski/Ferrari and Comical too.

Anyone else you think should be giving money to the government?

NIKE? They could onshore their factories and start paying a decent amount of tax and that might do it, but that's another matter entirely.

Besides, the money which the government might collect from Armstrong is effectively what those companies paid him with full knowledge of his doping. So they do recover indirectly.

 

[Benotti69]

Agreed. It is ridiculous that he should be on the hook for all of it. Lots of depos and discovery to come over the next year, hopefully the name Weisel will pop up a few times

Not just Weisel, but Stapleton, Carmichael et al.......

 

[Race Radio]

Not just Weisel, but Stapleton, Carmichael et al.......

The good news is Stapleton, Knaggs and Johan are named in the suit. Johan is never coming to America again.....wonder which one of the other two are going to flip first? My money is on Stapleton

 

[gooner]

Travis still wants him to come clean under oath.

http://www.sportsfan.com.au/anti-doping-chief-hopes-armstrong-talks/tabid/91/newsid/145406/default.aspx

 

[thehog]

Sounds like a 6 month ban is just around the corner for Armstrong

Although is Tygart aware Armstrong is not coming back to race?

Tygart suggested there is some way to go if the 43-year-old is to return to competitive cycling

And Tygart, speaking at the Leaders in Sport conference in London, said: “I absolutely hope he (Armstrong) comes forward. Everyone deserves a second chance.

“We’re happy if it’s true that he did come forward and we hope that can help UCI and its review of what happened in that generation.”

However, Tygart suggested there is some way to go if the 43-year-old is to return to competitive cycling.

Tygart called for Armstrong to help the sport more fully — as the 1993 world champion promised in his interview with Winfrey — after continually rejecting USADA’s requests to cooperate.

“The rules have to be enforced. There’s a lifetime ban that is in place; there is some discretion to reduce it,” he added.

“At the end of last year we gave an opportunity — and what we told him was our final opportunity — which he rejected and decided not to come in.

“I hope for everyone who goes through something like this, made the choices that he made, that they find the opportunity, not just lip-service, to redeem themselves but take action in order to truly help clean up the sport.

“It was the most frustrating day of the investigation back in June 2012 when he refused to come in.

“We thought at that point, with the momentum that was built along with his 11 former teammates that this would have been just a cascade for the benefit of clean athletes.

“We’re slowly plugging along to get to that point where the sport truly changes, we obviously hope he’s a part of that at some point.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/more-sp...085842300?nk=f438af6fed7608f9a898cf3e18293a37