Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Spawn of e]

Re: busy

.........so as my 1st post.......nike are too busy counting their $'s..........which will

satisfy shareholders

interestingly nike do extend their hopes of good ethical practice to producers...

can't be seen to have their expensive gear made in sweatshops...bad for

business............

Mark L

Funny how we are now trying to square ethical 'you had to know' issues with capitalism in board room America, on a profitable entity that had never tested positive and was an inspirational story, regardless of how much of a sham that drug testing was.

The Clinic is not the conscious or ethical flow chart of corporate America. "Good ethical practice", like supporting athletes that don't test positive and are popular, ie profitable?

Shams and lies are foisted on the American public daily and they eat it up, case in point is the current GOP presidential contenders that lie every time they open their mouth. Shareholders giving a ***? Give me a break, and if you as a corporation do not take advantage of the real rube infested landscape then you will not be as profitable as you could be.

Nike: We "think" LA is dirty so no go, ergo they lose 100's of millions of $ that goes to some other company that doesn't have that hangup. Game, set, match. That is ethics 101 in business.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

good replies.............however is the nike pledge to conduct business with integrity and a commitment

to the highest possibles standards a promise wider than how the nike company should conduct it's

business?...............sure if a nike endorsed athlete dopes they are dropped but should/ can nike

ensure that these athletes never dope?

Mark L

Hi Mark,

It is a good question. Or, rather, a good two questions.

1. "is the nike pledge ... a promise wider than how the nike company should conduct it's business?"

On the first question, that is up to them - to some degree. This is the standard that they have set and said that they are committed to.

Note that the SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission) requires a Code of Conduct or an explanation of why the company does not have one. ("Disclose whether the registrant has adopted a code of ethics that applies to the registrant's principal executive officer, principal financial officer, principal accounting officer or controller, or persons performing similar function...").

The NYSE - where Nike is traded - also requires a Code of Conduct, and their requirements are such that the scope is broader than that of the SEC, as it is mandatory and must apply to directors and employees as well as the senior officers. ("Listed companies must adopt and disclose a code of business conduct and ethics for directors, officers and employees, and promptly disclose any waivers of the code for directors or executive officers.")

Thus, Nike minimally has securities and stock exchange requirements to satisfy. Going above and beyond that with a commitment to the "highest ethical standards" is at the company's discretion.

2. "can nike ensure that these athletes never dope?"

On the second question, can Nike ensure that sponsored athletes never dope? Probably not. And, this does not necessarily flow from the first question. Nike may have a code of conduct, but that doesn't mean they can, should or will apply it to their value chain (suppliers, distributors, retailers, sponsored athletes, etc.).

Note that some industries/companies, have leveraged ISO 14000 (i.e. the international environmental management standard) to require that suppliers also comply. Thus, it is possible that Nike could apply its Code of Standards to its sponsored athletes.

Given that Nike aspires to and espouses the "highest ethical standard", it would be logical that they impose their standards on their sponsored athletes. But, it is clear - or at least it is clear in the case of Lance Armstrong - that they not (universally) have applied this practice.

To get Nike to apply its Code to its sponsored athletes, etc. would almost certainly require some sort of pressure from their shareholders. If the shareholders don't care, then Nike won't either.

Dave.

Nike terminated LA's contract pretty quickly after the reasoned decision (and/or his confession), no?
Therefore, there must have been a clause in his contract that could be activated by Nike for instant termination on the basis of the PEDs usage bust/admission...

I could be wrong, as I'm taking a punt on the exact details of nike's dumping of LA once he admitted it

 

[D-Queued]

Re: Re:

...

Nike terminated LA's contract pretty quickly after the reasoned decision (and/or his confession), no?
Therefore, there must have been a clause in his contract that could be activated by Nike for instant termination on the basis of the PEDs usage bust/admission...

I could be wrong, as I'm taking a punt on the exact details of nike's dumping of LA once he admitted it

Perhaps we need to define 'pretty quickly'. And/or whether the Reasoned Decision or Lance's 'confession' is more material.

Here is the timeline:

24 Aug 2012 - USADA announces charges against Lance
24 Aug 2012 - Nike stands behind Lance. Nike: “Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance...”

Then, same thing in October:

10 Oct 2012 – Reasoned Decision released
11 Oct 2012 – Nike: “Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance...”

Finally, after a few days to 'think it over' apparently there is a crack in the armor:

17 Oct 2012 – Nike cancels contract. Nike: “Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him…”

The repeated reasoning that they were supporting Lance because he denied the charges seems a petty thin justification. The ongoing support of Lance for a number of days post the Reasoned Decision remains seemingly out of touch with reality, especially after the August foreshadowing.

Sure looks more like they were waiting to gauge what the reaction would be, before they threw in the towel. Hard to reconcile that with their corporate stance. Shouldn't the "highest ethical standards" demand a bit quicker decision that couldn't be tainted by a time lag?

And, what is with the great sadness?

The dude misled us for a decade, but we are saddened that he can't do that for another decade?

Puhlease!

Dave.

 

[MarkvW]

They were sad because they could see the value of all that Livestrong stuff diminishing by the moment. Nike morality extends no further than the bottom line.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

...

Nike terminated LA's contract pretty quickly after the reasoned decision (and/or his confession), no?
Therefore, there must have been a clause in his contract that could be activated by Nike for instant termination on the basis of the PEDs usage bust/admission...

I could be wrong, as I'm taking a punt on the exact details of nike's dumping of LA once he admitted it

Perhaps we need to define 'pretty quickly'. And/or whether the Reasoned Decision or Lance's 'confession' is more material.

Here is the timeline:

24 Aug 2012 - USADA announces charges against Lance
24 Aug 2012 - Nike stands behind Lance. Nike: “Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance...”

Then, same thing in October:

10 Oct 2012 – Reasoned Decision released
11 Oct 2012 – Nike: “Lance has stated his innocence and has been unwavering on this position. Nike plans to continue to support Lance...”

Finally, after a few days to 'think it over' apparently there is a crack in the armor:

17 Oct 2012 – Nike cancels contract. Nike: “Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade, it is with great sadness that we have terminated our contract with him…”

The repeated reasoning that they were supporting Lance because he denied the charges seems a petty thin justification. The ongoing support of Lance for a number of days post the Reasoned Decision remains seemingly out of touch with reality, especially after the August foreshadowing.

Sure looks more like they were waiting to gauge what the reaction would be, before they threw in the towel. Hard to reconcile that with their corporate stance. Shouldn't the "highest ethical standards" demand a bit quicker decision that couldn't be tainted by a time lag?

And, what is with the great sadness?

The dude misled us for a decade, but we are saddened that he can't do that for another decade?

Puhlease!

Dave.

I'd suggest that the Nike timeline may have gone something like this;

Oct 11 - statement of support, while back at the office it was; "quick, have Legal look through this for an out for us"... "and draft some options/sweeteners for him to go quietly"
Oct 13-14 - weekend
Oct 15-16 - "Found it!", followed by discussion with LA, and after some bargaining on "damage controls" and keeping it all on the Q T. Later; "get PR to draft up a suitable media release"...
Oct 17 - press conference and announcement by Nike

 

[thehog]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

How awesome is Ferrari? He's now taking on Hollywood!

ROME (AP) — Lance Armstrong‘s former physician has reportedly filed a lawsuit aiming to halt distribution in Italy of a movie about the disgraced cyclist.

The ANSA news agency reports that lawyers for Dr. Michele Ferrari have requested that the ”The Program” – due to be released in Italy on Thursday – be sequestered from distributor Videa and are seeking damages.

Lawyers say Ferrari never administered EPO to Armstrong.

Ferrari’s lawyer Dario Bolognesi did not immediately answer calls from The Associated Press.

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/10/07/lance-armstrong-the-program-movie-michele-ferrari-tour-de-france-cycling/

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

...Lawyers say Ferrari never administered EPO to Armstrong.

Ferrari’s lawyer Dario Bolognesi did not immediately answer calls from The Associated Press.

So Ferrari has a lawyer whose name is "of baloney?" Can you say, "apropos"?

 

[MacRoadie]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

...Lawyers say Ferrari never administered EPO to Armstrong.

Ferrari’s lawyer Dario Bolognesi did not immediately answer calls from The Associated Press.

So Ferrari has a lawyer whose name is "of baloney?" Can you say, "apropos"?

Full name Dario Pieno di Bolognesi?

 

[Archibald]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

How awesome is Ferrari? He's now taking on Hollywood!

ROME (AP) — Lance Armstrong‘s former physician has reportedly filed a lawsuit aiming to halt distribution in Italy of a movie about the disgraced cyclist.

The ANSA news agency reports that lawyers for Dr. Michele Ferrari have requested that the ”The Program” – due to be released in Italy on Thursday – be sequestered from distributor Videa and are seeking damages.

Lawyers say Ferrari never administered EPO to Armstrong.

Ferrari’s lawyer Dario Bolognesi did not immediately answer calls from The Associated Press.

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/10/07/lance-armstrong-the-program-movie-michele-ferrari-tour-de-france-cycling/

discussed it with him, advised him on it, showed him how to, told what to do with it, supplied it, monitored it, but never administered it...
very Clinton-esque of him to use the "I did not have sexual relations with..." Defense

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

How awesome is Ferrari? He's now taking on Hollywood!

ROME (AP) — Lance Armstrong‘s former physician has reportedly filed a lawsuit aiming to halt distribution in Italy of a movie about the disgraced cyclist.

The ANSA news agency reports that lawyers for Dr. Michele Ferrari have requested that the ”The Program” – due to be released in Italy on Thursday – be sequestered from distributor Videa and are seeking damages.

Lawyers say Ferrari never administered EPO to Armstrong.

Ferrari’s lawyer Dario Bolognesi did not immediately answer calls from The Associated Press.

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/10/07/lance-armstrong-the-program-movie-michele-ferrari-tour-de-france-cycling/

discussed it with him, advised him on it, showed him how to, told what to do with it, supplied it, monitored it, but never administered it...
very Clinton-esque of him to use the "I did not have sexual relations with..." Defense

That's how I read it. Ferrari is clever. I am amazed how he has consistently spit in they eye of the Italian authorities.

 

[Archibald]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

How awesome is Ferrari? He's now taking on Hollywood!

ROME (AP) — Lance Armstrong‘s former physician has reportedly filed a lawsuit aiming to halt distribution in Italy of a movie about the disgraced cyclist.

The ANSA news agency reports that lawyers for Dr. Michele Ferrari have requested that the ”The Program” – due to be released in Italy on Thursday – be sequestered from distributor Videa and are seeking damages.

Lawyers say Ferrari never administered EPO to Armstrong.

Ferrari’s lawyer Dario Bolognesi did not immediately answer calls from The Associated Press.

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/10/07/lance-armstrong-the-program-movie-michele-ferrari-tour-de-france-cycling/

discussed it with him, advised him on it, showed him how to, told what to do with it, supplied it, monitored it, but never administered it...
very Clinton-esque of him to use the "I did not have sexual relations with..." Defense

That's how I read it. Ferrari is clever. I am amazed how he has consistently spit in they eye of the Italian authorities.

clever he is.
"I only gave Lance some orange juice when he visited me"

 

[thehog]

Re:

so epo is no more dangerous than orange juice...........try drinking a pint of epo...

ferrari.........sues...typical lance tactic..............not so awesome................

Mark L

Your quote doesn't make a whole lot of sense as you wouldn't intravenously inject orange juice just as you wouldn't drink EPO.

Ferrari's quote referred to the moderation of EPO. That it would be no more dangerous than orange juice. EPO is a lifesaving medical drug. Orange juice is not. For the most part is he is right. Except EPO is illegal in sport, not in medical practice.

"EPO is not dangerous, it's the abuse that is. It's also dangerous to drink 10 liters of orange juice".

.

 

[thehog]

Re:

........of course my quote was tongue in cheek......i notice you add 'for the most part he is right'........LOL

Mark L

He is right. EPO is a safe drug which saves lives. It's the abuse of the drug which makes people sick or die.

Not sure why you would read anything else in to it. And one certainly wouldn't drink EPO like you stated, that wouldn't be possible.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Re:

Here's hoping the Nike emails sink a few more dopers and enablers and tarnish Nike even more.

LOL! I'm with you..Nike is a fraud company. Too bad Jokely isn't involved in this anymore, that'd be a hoot seeing McIllVane squirm about perjuring herself.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

How awesome is Ferrari? He's now taking on Hollywood!

ROME (AP) — Lance Armstrong‘s former physician has reportedly filed a lawsuit aiming to halt distribution in Italy of a movie about the disgraced cyclist.

The ANSA news agency reports that lawyers for Dr. Michele Ferrari have requested that the ”The Program” – due to be released in Italy on Thursday – be sequestered from distributor Videa and are seeking damages.

Lawyers say Ferrari never administered EPO to Armstrong.

Ferrari’s lawyer Dario Bolognesi did not immediately answer calls from The Associated Press.

http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2015/10/07/lance-armstrong-the-program-movie-michele-ferrari-tour-de-france-cycling/

discussed it with him, advised him on it, showed him how to, told what to do with it, supplied it, monitored it, but never administered it...
very Clinton-esque of him to use the "I did not have sexual relations with..." Defense

That's how I read it. Ferrari is clever. I am amazed how he has consistently spit in they eye of the Italian authorities.[/qcould?,
Netflix


Meh. He could do something really bad and talk about doping footballers. The policy makers know this and politely defend him.

The guy is loaded if he's dropping an easy six-figures on PR. Doping pays!!

 

[blackcat]

Re:

so epo is no more dangerous than orange juice...........try drinking a pint of epo...

ferrari.........sues...typical lance tactic..............not so awesome................

Mark L

i see your pint.

i raise you a gallon.

room temperature.

dont believe the hype about thermoses and ice blocks and fridges

real mean drink their edgar room temperature

#3poeslaw

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Re:

so epo is no more dangerous than orange juice...........try drinking a pint of epo...

ferrari.........sues...typical lance tactic..............not so awesome................

Mark L

i see your pint.

i raise you a gallon.

room temperature.

dont believe the hype about thermoses and ice blocks and fridges

real mean drink their edgar room temperature

#3poeslaw

Heck! Real men take their blood and plasma at room temperature! Viva Ricco!!

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

Heck! Real men take their blood and plasma at room temperature! Viva Ricco!!

this was always the problem with Bernhard Kohl and Stefan Matschiner and RyanAir.

they did not appreciate that the coagulated blood in the overhead compartment in RyanAir is good for the O2. It has oxidised, ergo, it must be good.

 

[Miburo]

Someone knows how long it'll take before we can torrent the program? Since it's a not a big movie, torrents might come out quick, not sure

 

[Bosco10]

Re:

Someone knows how long it'll take before we can torrent the program? Since it's a not a big movie, torrents might come out quick, not sure

I just checked IMDb. The Program hasn't even been released in the USA (yet?). But I think foreign releases are subtitled, not dubbed, which is a good thing. However, if this movie is put on the torrents now, it will most likely be a low quality "cam shot" -- unless someone posts a DVD from the studio. My interest in Armstrong has pretty much evaporated, but I'm curious if he's still trying to get his ban reduced. Anyone know? Lance is already 44, and looks 10 years older. I think not being able to compete is tearing this guy apart.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Someone knows how long it'll take before we can torrent the program? Since it's a not a big movie, torrents might come out quick, not sure

How about a free download of Sheryl Crow singing the national anthem tonight?

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2015/10/13/sheryl-crow-democratic-debate-national-anthem-.cnn

 

[veganrob]

Good grief.

 

[86TDFWinner]

. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2015-10-16/lance-armstrong-the-fallen-idol-of-sport

 

[del1962]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/lan...-andreu-doped-for-the-majority-of-his-career/

Lance really has it in for the Andrea's, I would trust what Frankie says over Lance

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

Betsy: "I don't know what drives Lance's obsession with us."

If you poke a pig with a stick, you can hardly be suprised if it turns on you....