Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

That's right. And wasn't Armstrong at that ASO meeting as well, or had meetings with them of his own?

Edit: And I believe there was a woman at ASO (or maybe she was at AFLD?) who was fired along with Clerc. Anybody remember her name?

I have never seen it reported that Armstrong was at the meeting between the ASO and McQuaid, but there are reports that Armstrong, along with Bruyneel, did meet with the ASO before definitively announcing his return to the race.

The ASO staff member sacked along with Patrice Clerc was Gilbert Ysern, who had been Clerc's 'right hand man'.

 

[86TDFWinner]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Two more articles on Wonderboy: 1 involving the Qui tam case(ruling of sorts today), and one involving him trashing TT @ a college:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2016/03/07/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-lawsuit-cooper-ruling/81439814/

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-criticizes-usada-travis-tygart-2016-3

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

That's right. And wasn't Armstrong at that ASO meeting as well, or had meetings with them of his own?

Edit: And I believe there was a woman at ASO (or maybe she was at AFLD?) who was fired along with Clerc. Anybody remember her name?

I have never seen it reported that Armstrong was at the meeting between the ASO and McQuaid, but there are reports that Armstrong, along with Bruyneel, did meet with the ASO before definitively announcing his return to the race.

The ASO staff member sacked along with Patrice Clerc was Gilbert Ysern, who had been Clerc's 'right hand man'.

Thanks for that. There was definitely a female involved, too, and I'm 90% certain she left with Clerc, so I think she worked for him.

 

[Pazuzu]

Re: Re:

I hear what you're saying. Hearing Armstrong complain that USADA is ineffective is like hearing Al Capone complain that the police are corrupt. While USADA may in fact be ineffective, they caught him, so they're good for something.

Thing is, the reason they can't catch more dopers is because they haven't been given the tools to do so. I haven't heard Armstrong say that they should be given greater power in order to be more effective. In fact, he was working behind the scenes to get USADA's funding cut. Really, it's a minor miracle that they were able to catch Armstrong. Had the aborted federal investigation not compelled the witnesses to testify under oath, which testimony the witnesses then repeated to USADA in the presence of a federal agent, USADA would have had f*ck all to work with. Also, Tygert's determination in the face of serious pressure (in the form of death threats and members of Congress threatening to cut off USADA's funds) got the job done. Most people in Tygert's position would have said 'f#ck it" and been content to collect a salary without the hassel. Tygert deserves a ton of credit for not rolling over.

In order to truly combat doping in sport, it would need to be made a criminal offense, and the government would need to prosecute it aggressively with sting operation and the like. I don't see that happening. The public simply doesn't think this is important enough of an issue.* Ergo - we will have doping in sport from now until the end of time.


* It's odd, If someone were to rob a bank of $10,000 the public would call on law enforcement to come down like a ton of bricks. Yet, fraud in sport due to doping is costing clean athletes far more money, not to mention their athletic achievements being overshadowed by doped athletes

 

[Spawn of e]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Two more articles on Wonderboy: 1 involving the Qui tam case(ruling of sorts today), and one involving him trashing TT @ a college:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2016/03/07/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-lawsuit-cooper-ruling/81439814/

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-criticizes-usada-travis-tygart-2016-3

GL fanboy coping mechanism on display.

 

[Night Rider]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Two more articles on Wonderboy: 1 involving the Qui tam case(ruling of sorts today), and one involving him trashing TT @ a college:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2016/03/07/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-lawsuit-cooper-ruling/81439814/

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-criticizes-usada-travis-tygart-2016-3

Gee Armstrong's on a roll, Feds are in disarray. Armstrong will be suing the Feds and Flandis for vexatious litigation soon.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Two more articles on Wonderboy: 1 involving the Qui tam case(ruling of sorts today), and one involving him trashing TT @ a college:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2016/03/07/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-lawsuit-cooper-ruling/81439814/

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-criticizes-usada-travis-tygart-2016-3

Gee Armstrong's on a roll, Feds are in disarray. Armstrong will be suing the Feds and Flandis for vexatious litigation soon.

Makes you wonder whether the feds had a valid reason for dropping the criminal case, doesn't it.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Two more articles on Wonderboy: 1 involving the Qui tam case(ruling of sorts today), and one involving him trashing TT @ a college:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2016/03/07/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-lawsuit-cooper-ruling/81439814/

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-criticizes-usada-travis-tygart-2016-3

Gee Armstrong's on a roll, Feds are in disarray. Armstrong will be suing the Feds and Flandis for vexatious litigation soon.

Makes you wonder whether the feds had a valid reason for dropping the criminal case, doesn't it.

Not really. The judge's decision in the civil, qui tam case has no bearing whatsoever on any legal statute that Armstrong might have been prosecuted under.

For the government, “it would be much easier to force Armstrong to have to justify why he should not have to pay back everything as an `obligation’ based upon his breach,” said Anikeeff of the firm Williams Mullen.

The government no longer has this luxury after (judge) Cooper’s decision, Anikeeff said. Instead, the government faces the more complicated prospect of having to prove it was defrauded and suffered damages that exceeded what it received from the sponsorship.

Cooper (said) the government was overreaching on reverse false claims and instead should stick to what the sponsorship contract did or didn’t provide.

“The Sponsorship Agreement imposed no obligation on Tailwind to tender money or property to the Government in the event of a breach,” Cooper wrote.

In fact, maybe a successful qui tam was all along contingent on criminal conviction. I forget where I read it, but at one time I heard that the decision not to pursue the criminal case came directly from Obama. He is reported to have said, "We don't crucify our heroes." If so, Obama showed a lot of wisdom in looking at the larger picture. But it's generally easier to secure damages from a convicted criminal than from a stricken hero.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Two more articles on Wonderboy: 1 involving the Qui tam case(ruling of sorts today), and one involving him trashing TT @ a college:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2016/03/07/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-lawsuit-cooper-ruling/81439814/

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-criticizes-usada-travis-tygart-2016-3

Gee Armstrong's on a roll, Feds are in disarray. Armstrong will be suing the Feds and Flandis for vexatious litigation soon.

Good luck suing Landis, i cant imagine he has any money and is hoping for the Qui Tam payday.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Two more articles on Wonderboy: 1 involving the Qui tam case(ruling of sorts today), and one involving him trashing TT @ a college:


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2016/03/07/lance-armstrong-false-claims-act-lawsuit-cooper-ruling/81439814/

http://www.businessinsider.com/lance-armstrong-criticizes-usada-travis-tygart-2016-3

GL fanboy coping mechanism on display.

Yeah you see that also? Whatever you do don't say that about them in the Lemond thread that is now closed.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Good luck suing Landis, i cant imagine he has any money and is hoping for the Qui Tam payday.

Nope. Floyd is convinced he will not get anything from the suit. All this stuff floating around the web that Floyd is sitting back, expecting to get rich off LA is false.

When I asked whether he thinks he should have confessed, giving Tygart what he was looking for, the response was, "F---, no. I never would have said a word knowing what I know. I've got far more respect for Lance than for Tygart. Lance is a bad@ss. Tygart is a weasel."

Now this is a guy who still really really hates Lance, so it's an indication of how much of a weasel Tygart really is.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Good luck suing Landis, i cant imagine he has any money and is hoping for the Qui Tam payday.

Nope. Floyd is convinced he will not get anything from the suit. All this stuff floating around the web that Floyd is sitting back, expecting to get rich off LA is false.

When I asked whether he thinks he should have confessed, giving Tygart what he was looking for, the response was, "F---, no. I never would have said a word knowing what I know. I've got far more respect for Lance than for Tygart. Lance is a bad@ss. Tygart is a weasel."

Now this is a guy who still really really hates Lance, so it's an indication of how much of a weasel Tygart really is.

That is not going to fall into the plot here. Hope the duct tape holds.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

It was much the same story with Patrice Clerc when he was president of the ASO.

Utter tosh. Anyone who knows that story knows that it was the Widow Amaury who was suing for peace having seen the damage Clerc was doing to ASO with his talks of secession. She brought back Alain Krzentowski who used his former ASO colleague Jean-Claude Killy to get McQuaid dragged kicking and screaming to the talks table. Clerc knew nothing of what was going on until he was shown the exit by Amaury. LA had no part in his dismissal.

 

[MarkvW]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Good luck suing Landis, i cant imagine he has any money and is hoping for the Qui Tam payday.

Nope. Floyd is convinced he will not get anything from the suit. All this stuff floating around the web that Floyd is sitting back, expecting to get rich off LA is false.

When I asked whether he thinks he should have confessed, giving Tygart what he was looking for, the response was, "F---, no. I never would have said a word knowing what I know. I've got far more respect for Lance than for Tygart. Lance is a bad@ss. Tygart is a weasel."

Now this is a guy who still really really hates Lance, so it's an indication of how much of a weasel Tygart really is.

You can write better fiction than that! Tygart delivered everything he possibly could: A lifetime ban. Landis could not possibly be more satisfied.

 

[frenchfry]

Re: Re:

It was much the same story with Patrice Clerc when he was president of the ASO.

Utter tosh. Anyone who knows that story knows that it was the Widow Amaury who was suing for peace having seen the damage Clerc was doing to ASO with his talks of secession. She brought back Alain Krzentowski who used his former ASO colleague Jean-Claude Killy to get McQuaid dragged kicking and screaming to the talks table. Clerc knew nothing of what was going on until he was shown the exit by Amaury. LA had no part in his dismissal.

Jean-Claude Killy was a great skier but has transformed into a sports-politics slùt.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Good luck suing Landis, i cant imagine he has any money and is hoping for the Qui Tam payday.

Nope. Floyd is convinced he will not get anything from the suit. All this stuff floating around the web that Floyd is sitting back, expecting to get rich off LA is false.

When I asked whether he thinks he should have confessed, giving Tygart what he was looking for, the response was, "F---, no. I never would have said a word knowing what I know. I've got far more respect for Lance than for Tygart. Lance is a bad@ss. Tygart is a weasel."

Now this is a guy who still really really hates Lance, so it's an indication of how much of a weasel Tygart really is.

You can write better fiction than that! Tygart delivered everything he possibly could: A lifetime ban. Landis could not possibly be more satisfied.

Typical Clinic. So wrapped up in its own biases that it cannot recognize the truth.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Good luck suing Landis, i cant imagine he has any money and is hoping for the Qui Tam payday.

Nope. Floyd is convinced he will not get anything from the suit. All this stuff floating around the web that Floyd is sitting back, expecting to get rich off LA is false.

When I asked whether he thinks he should have confessed, giving Tygart what he was looking for, the response was, "F---, no. I never would have said a word knowing what I know. I've got far more respect for Lance than for Tygart. Lance is a bad@ss. Tygart is a weasel."

Now this is a guy who still really really hates Lance, so it's an indication of how much of a weasel Tygart really is.

No doubt Tygart is a weasel, him JV and a whole host of others.

If Lance kept his mouth shut after Reasoned Decision, didn't do Oprah etc he may be seen as a badass who played the game harder, tougher and dirtier than everyone else, but nah, guy whinged about death sentence, witch hunts and now USADA.

Hope Landis gets a payday, but i guess his regrets go back trying to fight his positive.

 

[Spawn of e]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

Good luck suing Landis, i cant imagine he has any money and is hoping for the Qui Tam payday.

Nope. Floyd is convinced he will not get anything from the suit. All this stuff floating around the web that Floyd is sitting back, expecting to get rich off LA is false.

When I asked whether he thinks he should have confessed, giving Tygart what he was looking for, the response was, "F---, no. I never would have said a word knowing what I know. I've got far more respect for Lance than for Tygart. Lance is a bad@ss. Tygart is a weasel."

Now this is a guy who still really really hates Lance, so it's an indication of how much of a weasel Tygart really is.

You can write better fiction than that! Tygart delivered everything he possibly could: A lifetime ban. Landis could not possibly be more satisfied.

Typical Clinic. So wrapped up in its own biases that it cannot recognize the truth.

And what makes you believable? If you are 'in the know', is FL good with you blabbing this on the forum?

I can buy Tygart/weasel stuff due to all of the reduced sentences for dopers and BS double talk to LA about coming clean, but what context does the "LA is a bad@ss" quote come from? Methinks you are pulling chains, but we are all ears.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Anyone who knows that story knows that it was the Widow Amaury who was suing for peace having seen the damage Clerc was doing to ASO with his talks of secession. She brought back Alain Krzentowski who used his former ASO colleague Jean-Claude Killy to get McQuaid dragged kicking and screaming to the talks table. Clerc knew nothing of what was going on until he was shown the exit by Amaury. LA had no part in his dismissal.

I don't doubt that Marie-Odile Amaury was concerned about the rift between the ASO/ Clerc and the UCI and, as you say, went over his head. However, it remains the case that the rift between the ASO and the UCI was focused on two main things. Firstly, there were the UCI's attempts to grab control of the TV rights to the Tour on the grounds it was a mere component part of its 'Pro Tour' brand.

Secondly, there was Clerc's robust approach to the issue of doping, as with all the hoo-ha about the Clerc trying to stop Astana riding the Tour, with the UCI demanding that they be given a place. The there were Clerc's plans to run testing at the Tour and other ASO races independently of the UCI, his call for McQuaid to step down because of his failure to address the issue of doping, in particular in relation to the UCI ignoring its own rules so as to let Rasmussen ride the Tour, and so on.

I very much doubt that Clerc was sacked for trying to protect the interests of the ASO with regards TV rights. That leaves his intransigence on the issue of doping.

Many commentators in outlets such L'Equipe observed that the dismissal of Clerc signaled nothing less than the end of the ASO's 'hard line' approach to doping. We also know that once Clerc was sacked and the UCI was back in control they went out of their way to 'accommodate' Astana and Armstrong when 'testing' them for doping. Clerc himself has said that it was his unwillingness to compromise on the issue of doping that led to his dismissal. It was also stated in the French media that Clerc's remaining in his post was recognised as being a 'barrier' to Armstrong returning to the race.

Bottom line is that Clerc's dismissal was all about his refusal to abandon his hard-line approach to doping, and the desire of both the ASO and the UCI to make the Tour a welcoming place for Armstrong for his comeback. As such, Armstrong (directly or indirectly) played a central role in the dismissal of Clerc.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Anyone who knows that story knows that it was the Widow Amaury who was suing for peace having seen the damage Clerc was doing to ASO with his talks of secession. She brought back Alain Krzentowski who used his former ASO colleague Jean-Claude Killy to get McQuaid dragged kicking and screaming to the talks table. Clerc knew nothing of what was going on until he was shown the exit by Amaury. LA had no part in his dismissal.

I don't doubt that Marie-Odile Amaury was concerned about the rift between the ASO/ Clerc and the UCI and, as you say, went over his head. However, it remains the case that the rift between the ASO and the UCI was focused on two main things. Firstly, the UCI's attempts to grab control of the TV rights to the Tour on the grounds it was a mere component part of its 'Pro Tour' brand.

Secondly, there was Clerc's robust approach to the issue of doping, as with all the hoo-ha about the Clerc trying to stop Astana riding the Tour, with the UCI demanding that they be given a place. The there were Clerc's plans to run testing at the Tour and other ASO races independently of the UCI, his call for McQuaid to step down because of his failure to address the issue of doping, in particular in relation to the UCI ignoring its own rules so as to let Rasmussen ride the Tour, and so on.

I very much doubt that Clerc was sacked for trying to protect the interests of the ASO with regards TV rights. That leaves his intransigence on the issue of doping.

Many commentators in outlets such L'Equipe observed that the dismissal of Clerc signaled nothing less than the end of the ASO's 'hard line' approach to doping. We also know that once Clerc was sacked and the UCI was back in control they went out of their way to 'accommodate' Astana and Armstrong when 'testing' them for doping. Clerc himself has said that it was his unwillingness to compromise on the issue of doping that led to his dismissal. It was also stated in the French media that Clerc's remaining in his post was recognised as being a 'barrier' to Armstrong returning to the race.

Bottom line is that Clerc's dismissal was all about his refusal to abandon his hard-line approach to doping, and the desire of both the ASO and the UCI to make the Tour a welcoming place for Armstrong for his comeback. As such, Armstrong (directly or indirectly) played a central role in the dismissal of Clerc.

Exactly. And I think I said earlier, here and in the Contador thread, that Clerc had turned dope testing at the Tour over to WADA, but in fact, and unless I'm mistaken, it was actually turned over to the French anti-doping agency, AFLD. (It was one of their testers, in fact, who made a surprise visit to Armstrong - who kept the French tester waiting for twenty minutes while he intubated himself in the shower. )

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Re: Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession

...Hope Landis gets a payday, but i guess his regrets go back trying to fight his positive.

I can't imagine he ever had a lower low than the day he stood before the good people of Farmersville to tell them, 'I'm sorry, but I've been lying to all of you. I really am guilty' And deciding to dope by itself wasn't what put him there, it was trying to fight the positive.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Bottom line is that Clerc's dismissal was all about his refusal to abandon his hard-line approach to doping, and the desire of both the ASO and the UCI to make the Tour a welcoming place for Armstrong for his comeback. As such, Armstrong (directly or indirectly) played a central role in the dismissal of Clerc.

That's your reading of it. Many, including Pierre Ballester, see that as utter nonsense, a stupid attempt by those who have to believe that LA, being the root of all evil, is at the centre of everything that happens in cycling

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

Exactly.

Funny, only a few posts ago you had Armstrong actually in the room at that fateful meeting between Amaury and McQuaid, and now you accept that maybe all that really happened is Armstrong's return influenced thinking on both sides a little.

Consistency, it really is overrated.

 

[Maxiton]

Re: Re:

Bottom line is that Clerc's dismissal was all about his refusal to abandon his hard-line approach to doping, and the desire of both the ASO and the UCI to make the Tour a welcoming place for Armstrong for his comeback. As such, Armstrong (directly or indirectly) played a central role in the dismissal of Clerc.

That's your reading of it. Many, including Pierre Ballester, see that as utter nonsense, a stupid attempt by those who have to believe that LA, being the root of all evil, is at the centre of everything that happens in cycling

Exactly.

Funny, only a few posts ago you had Armstrong actually in the room at that fateful meeting between Amaury and McQuaid, and now you accept that maybe all that really happened is Armstrong's return influenced thinking on both sides a little.

Consistency, it really is overrated.

French ex-anti doping chief says President Sarkozy forced him out of job at Lance Armstrong's request

Bordry's [fate was] sealed at a dinner attended by Armstrong at the Elysée Palace in July 2010, hosted by Sarkozy who had made little secret of his admiration for the cyclist.

“Armstrong told me about it himself,” Bordry explained to the Nouvel Observateur, saying “he boasted in front of me of having called for my head from the President. I asked for a denial from the Elysée, even a private one, but never received a reply. I was shocked.”

Instead, two months later, Bordry was told that the AFLD’s budget was being slashed by half . . . Demoralised, he resigned, and the clear implication is that the cut in funding was authorised by Sarkozy in compliance with Armstrong’s wish that Bordry be removed.

Armstrong himself greeted news of Bordry’s departure from the agency in September 2010 with a three-word message on Twitter that read “Au Revoir Pierre.”

In there any reason to believe that Clerc's fate, in the same period, didn't have the same purpose, and the same source? Whether Armstrong was in the room with Amaury and McQuaid, had separate meetings with Amaury and/or McQuaid, or used McQuaid (and Sarkozy) as his stand-in, the net effect was the same.

Logic, it really is overrated.

 

[Semper Fidelis]

I wonder with all this talk about how Lance Armstrong got this lab coat fired.......will Clerc bring a lawsuit for missed wages? It seems to be the thing to do. Maybe he can bring all this info to the lawyers table get Sarkozy on the witness stand here in merikah and take down more of the dolllah dollllah bills.