Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[mewmewmew13]

That is more evidence of Hincapie's independence since Lance and Carmichael have not been on speaking terms for quite awhile now.

Good old independent George! I for one can't wait for his book and I sure hope he feels more talkative soon…I would like to hear him explain how the Lemonds are behind the Andreu's pesky campaign.

"more moderator sensible people…"

 

[Race Radio]

moderator sensible people

Like those weirdos who sign up 300+ usernames to post nonsense on message boards?

 

[International Observer]

Because he's lying, that's why. Hincapie was doping as a junior. I've said this a million times. And Armstrong was the leading catalyst in the doping rings at both at Motorola and Postal/Disco. You must have missed that part, and the testimony of all the others..

That's a spin. He wasn't doping with EPO as a junior. What makes you think he is lying about seeing an older more experienced rider show him how to use EPO? It rings completely true to me.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I think we should ask Phil Liggett what his take is on all this is.

Let's get some clear sensible people making comments.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

But he already talked about it at least six months ago in the Armstrong lie. He's only been allowed to talk openly about this stuff for a year. Its relevant to Betsy's local newspaper which is why they asked him about it.

Yet you said in the version you saw that George didn't say anything about Frankie teaching him?

 

[International Observer]

Yet you said in the version you saw that George didn't say anything about Frankie teaching him?

Yeah, I couldn't remember it. Turns out it was a brief couple of seconds two thirds into it.

Noone else who saw it seemed to have remembered it either until just a few days ago and the conspiracy smear got whipped up. Nobody mentioned it after seeing it. It's been completely manufactured.

 

[International Observer]

Strange, this post went missing.....

These "why now?" comments.

Hincapie has only been allowed to talk openly about doping for about a year. His short remarks on Frankie in The Armstrong Lie were probably filmed almost a year ago themselves, or at least a good six months. In other words, Hincapie has merely finally been able to tell the truth of his experience, that's "why now". And nobody from the era is rushing out to say he was wrong, which I think is rather telling.

I feel sorry for Hincapie. Why don't we look at it from his point of view? It must have been very frustrating to see Betsy waging this bitter campaign against them when they knew Frankie himself was one of the boys. Must be liberating for him to finally be able to mention it.

I hope Hincapie and others go on being able to tell the truth, free from the hatchet mob who want to silence anybody who doesn't toe the line. I think we're really seeing a split now between the more stalkerish agenda driven people and those who loathed the doping but want to be honest about the culture and context. It's becoming clearer everyday. Betsy's campaign at the moment is to ensure Lance loses further millions to SCA, and that is probably going to happen. Then she will be cheering on the ridiculous whilster blower suit which nobody has the courage to openly defend. That's her agenda, and RR's too. Good for them. But as serious people we need to be honest about the history of the sport and not merely see it all as a opportunity to ruin one guy.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Strange, this post went missing.....

These "why now?" comments.

Hincapie has only been allowed to talk openly about doping for about a year. His short remarks on Frankie in The Armstrong Lie were probably filmed almost a year ago themselves, or at least a good six months. In other words, Hincapie has merely finally been able to tell the truth of his experience, that's "why now". And nobody from the era is rushing out to say he was wrong, which I think is rather telling.

I feel sorry for Hincapie. Why don't we look at it from his point of view? It must have been very frustrating to see Betsy waging this bitter campaign against them when they knew Frankie himself was one of the boys. Must be liberating for him to finally be able to mention it.

I hope Hincapie and others go on being able to tell the truth, free from the hatchet mob who want to silence anybody who doesn't toe the line. I think we're really seeing a split now between the more stalkerish agenda driven people and those who loathed the doping but want to be honest about the culture and context. It's becoming clearer everyday. Betsy's campaign at the moment is to ensure Lance loses further millions to SCA, and that is probably going to happen. Then she will be cheering on the ridiculous whilster blower suit which nobody has the courage to openly defend. That's her agenda, and RR's too. Good for them. But as serious people we need to be honest about the history of the sport and not merely see it all as a opportunity to ruin one guy.

……………….

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yeah, I couldn't remember it. Turns out it was a brief couple of seconds two thirds into it.

Noone else who saw it seemed to have remembered it either until just a few days ago and the conspiracy smear got whipped up. Nobody mentioned it after seeing it. It's been completely manufactured.

So, the smear that Frankie taught George was indeed in the Armstrong Lie movie that you saw - thank you.

 

[International Observer]

So, the smear that Frankie taught George was indeed in the Armstrong Lie movie that you saw - thank you.

Silly billy, I openly said I couldn't remember seeing it. I asked if there is another version. RR said something about the scene being inserted late just before the premier. Why did RR not complain about it before? Why did nobody else complain?

At least I am honest. RR dug up the quote of Betsy saying Frankie couldn't recall certain things and said he didn't know what was in the products, like you don't know what's in a cup of coffee. You never acknowledged it. Now you're gone into full playing games for RR mode.

 

[International Observer]

Like those weirdos who sign up 300+ usernames to post nonsense on message boards?

If you're so convinced that the truth is on your side, why do you see your role as to silence and smear people? You're all about trying to close down debate, add some quip about your opponents being crazy nut jobs.

What's that about?

And seriously, why pretend BroDeal is being paid or is in direct contact with Lance? He has a ten thousand post history of hating on Lance when it mattered. You do look very silly. I sincerely mean that.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Silly billy, I openly said I couldn't remember seeing it. I asked if there is another version. RR said something about the scene being inserted late just before the premier. Why did RR not complain about it before? Why did nobody else complain?

And you went on to say another version was unlikely.

RR did mention it before. It turns out that you were not the only one not to have remembered that scene.

At least I am honest. RR dug up the quote of Betsy saying Frankie couldn't recall certain things and said he didn't know what was in the products, like you don't know what's in a cup of coffee. You never acknowledged it. Now you're gone into full playing games for RR mode.

So, you are back (how many times now?) on about Betsy (& RR) deliberatley making stuff up.
If we were to give that a term, I think we can all agree it would be a smear.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Silly billy, I openly said I couldn't remember seeing it. I asked if there is another version. RR said something about the scene being inserted late just before the premier. Why did RR not complain about it before? Why did nobody else complain?

At least I am honest. RR dug up the quote of Betsy saying Frankie couldn't recall certain things and said he didn't know what was in the products, like you don't know what's in a cup of coffee. You never acknowledged it. Now you're gone into full playing games for RR mode.

Glad to see you're not here to 'smear people'

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If you're so convinced that the truth is on your side, why do you see your role as to silence and smear people? You're all about trying to close down debate, add some quip about your opponents being crazy nut jobs.

What's that about?

And seriously, why pretend BroDeal is being paid or is in direct contact with Lance? He has a ten thousands post history of hating on Lance when it mattered. You do look very silly. I sincerely mean that.

As I have said, repeatedly.
I have no problem with you posting your drivel here - as I will happily correct you, every time.

What gets you in trouble is that you branch out, your obsession with RR is well, nuts, I sincerely mean that.

 

[Race Radio]

Glad to see you're not here to 'smear people'

Seems odd that after a year of hiding they have suddenly climbed out of their caves.

 

[International Observer]

And you went on to say another version was unlikely.

RR did mention it before. It turns out that you were not the only one not to have remembered that scene.

So, you are back (how many times now?) on about Betsy (& RR) deliberatley making stuff up.
If we were to give that a term, I think we can all agree it would be a smear.

They way it was painted, it sounded like there was this big scene where Hincapie explains how he was taught how to dope. Turns out it was a few seconds in a 90 plus minute documentary, blink and you'd miss it. Not surprising that I couldn't remember it and asked a genuine question. Hincapie's frustration with Frankie is already on record back in 04 or 05 when he sent that email to Frankie. It's in the USADA report. I thought we already knew about all that? It's only now that it's been turned into something.

It must be a relief for Georege that he can now talk about this openly. Having said it in the Armstrong lie at least six months ago goes against the idea that this is part of some new smear.

I doubt he's going to be intimidated into shutting up.

 

[MarkvW]

So, the smear that Frankie taught George was indeed in the Armstrong Lie movie that you saw - thank you.

Okay, Maserati, please don't go all accusatorial--vortex on me. I have some questions here that you might help with and I respect your knowledge.

When George goes to the pro ranks, it's 1995. This is the dawning of the EPO era. It's not likely George did any EPO in the USA (or is it?). EPO is tricky stuff. Do it right and your blood becomes magic; do it wrong and you're dead. If you don't have a Conconi or a Ferrari, you're lost and at a crossroads. Somebody has to show you how to use EPO. Why not a teammate and friend?

I'm not suggesting that George didn't dope before 1995. I'm sure that he did. What I am suggesting is that George hadn't doped with EPO before and he needed somebody to show him how. Why couldn't that person have been his friend, Frankie.

I'm not suggesting that this is a true scenario, but can it be ruled out by the facts that we now know?

 

[International Observer]

As I have said, repeatedly.
I have no problem with you posting your drivel here - as I will happily correct you, every time.

What gets you in trouble is that you branch out, your obsession with RR is well, nuts, I sincerely mean that.

Good luck with that. See it if you can find something substantive. Bet you can't.

 

[International Observer]

Seems odd that after a year of hiding they have suddenly climbed out of their caves.

Yeah, I saw you trying to peddle that one last night. Hincapie, BroDeal and BPC? OMG. Something must be going on....being paid by Lance to come out etc. . You're so good at dropping these things out there that can't be disproved, twisting the minds of people out there. It;s pretty funny to me how you operate.

Look, Lance is busy trying to save his millions and has no time for this petty bullsh8t. The truth is not that much has been going on the last year, so there hasn't been a lot for me to say. BroDeal has been unhappy with the way you've been over doing the simplistic pro Betsy history for awhile now, and we now know Hincapie spoke out in the Armstrong lie almost a year ago. There is no coordinated action, honey. Give it a rest.

Now, if we look at Betsy's facebook page, it turns out her side are still coordinating on everything anti Armstrong.

 

[Race Radio]

Okay, Maserati, please don't go all accusatorial--vortex on me. I have some questions here that you might help with and I respect your knowledge.

When George goes to the pro ranks, it's 1995. This is the dawning of the EPO era. It's not likely George did any EPO in the USA (or is it?). EPO is tricky stuff. Do it right and your blood becomes magic; do it wrong and you're dead. If you don't have a Conconi or a Ferrari, you're lost and at a crossroads. Somebody has to show you how to use EPO. Why not a teammate and friend?

I'm not suggesting that George didn't dope before 1995. I'm sure that he did. What I am suggesting is that George hadn't doped with EPO before and he needed somebody to show him how. Why couldn't that person have been his friend, Frankie.

I'm not suggesting that this is a true scenario, but can it be ruled out by the facts that we now know?

Max Testa had already shown them how. The riders had been pushing him for information about EPO. He says he was concerned about their safety and gave them information about how to use it and safe doses. He even gave them pamphlets from the manufacturer.

George says very clearly that the first time he saw dope was due to Frankie. I think we can all agree that is absurd.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Good luck with that. See it if you can find something substantive. Bet you can't.

You are correct.
I can't find anything substantive in any of your posts.

 

[DirtyWorks]

It must be a relief for Georege that he can now talk about this openly. Having said it in the Armstrong lie at least six months ago goes against the idea that this is part of some new smear.

I doubt he's going to be intimidated into shutting up.

Who intimidates him? What is used as leverage? Please be specific.

Please identify possible candidates for the title of "hatchet people." I'm anxiously awaiting your reply.

I know I live in daily fear of Betsy. All those lawyers she's deployed to personally threaten and coerce me, some anonymous joker in some forum. Her coersion is the only reason I don't reveal the truth behind the cabal running the Qui Tam.

WTH is going on with these ridiculous stories?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Good luck with that. See it if you can find something substantive. Bet you can't.

Substantive, in your posts?
No.

As I said, I will happily correct you every time, just like I did with GH in the movie you saw.

 

[International Observer]

Max Testa had already shown them how. The riders had been pushing him for information about EPO. He says he was concerned about their safety and gave them information about how to use it and safe doses. He even gave them pamphlets from the manufacture.

George says very clearly that the first time he saw dope was due to Frankie. I think we can all agree that is absurd.

You're being too literal. He's merely saying Frankie was one of the older guys already using that helped out a bit. He was one of many. George is not saying that Frankie was the only person to teach him how to dope.

I think you're being unfair. Remember the context of why he would mention Frankie. Betsy has painted an incredibly absurd picture which the majority of people on this forum don't really believe if we asked them.

 

[Freddythefrog]

That's a spin. He wasn't doping with EPO as a junior. What makes you think he is lying about seeing an older more experienced rider show him how to use EPO? It rings completely true to me.

Agreed, Carmichael, Wenzel and Fraser were not doing EPO in 90 with Gentleman George. By the Worlds of 91 some riders were using EPO and soigneurs and others were working out where to get it from and how to use it. By 92 and Barcelona, usage was more widespread but not near universal. The whole "we started using it in '95" story is a simple attempt to construct a firebreak. It stands out a mile, just like big George transposes the Strock accusation by two years to 92 - "I was being injected but I did not know what it was".

There are a multitude of benefits of transposing the start point to 95, not least the point you are trying to make and the need to have Lance as a "clean" World Champion in a fantasy pre EPO era so that the "we only leveled the playing field" argument still has some merit with those that still have fond memories riding the hills with their yellow wrist bands on.