Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

[International Observer]

Substantive, in your posts?
No.

As I said, I will happily correct you every time, just like I did with GH in the movie you saw.

You answered my question, you didn't correct me. It turns out the answer goes against RR's conspiracy.

You're transparently trolling now. Which is fine, I don't want to see you banned for this.

 

[International Observer]

Agreed, Carmichael, Wenzel and Fraser were not doing EPO in 90 with Gentleman George. By the Worlds of 91 some riders were using EPO and soigneurs and others were working out where to get it from and how to use it. By 92 and Barcelona, usage was more widespread but not near universal. The whole "we started using it in '95" story is a simple firebreak. It stands out a mile, just like big George transposes the Strock accusation by two years to 92 - "I was being injected but I did not know what it was".

There are a multitude of benefits of transposing the start point to 95, not least the point you are trying to make and the need to have Lance as a "clean" World Champion in a fantasy pre EPO era so that the "we only leveled the playing field" argument still has some merit with those that still have fond memories riding the hills with their yellow wrist bands on.

We must remember, doping is not all about learning how to use a needle. Only a rider can tell you the best way to get the best out of the drug, how it works for them, how it builds up in the system. George's real point is merely that Frankie was one of the guys who knew more about EPO than him in those early days.

It must have been very frustrating how things panned out.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Okay, Maserati, please don't go all accusatorial--vortex on me. I have some questions here that you might help with and I respect your knowledge.

When George goes to the pro ranks, it's 1995. This is the dawning of the EPO era. It's not likely George did any EPO in the USA (or is it?). EPO is tricky stuff. Do it right and your blood becomes magic; do it wrong and you're dead. If you don't have a Conconi or a Ferrari, you're lost and at a crossroads. Somebody has to show you how to use EPO. Why not a teammate and friend?

I'm not suggesting that George didn't dope before 1995. I'm sure that he did. What I am suggesting is that George hadn't doped with EPO before and he needed somebody to show him how. Why couldn't that person have been his friend, Frankie.

I'm not suggesting that this is a true scenario, but can it be ruled out by the facts that we now know?

To answer the highlighted question - nothing, nor indeed would it be surprise.

But in GHs affidavit he says he injected 2000 IU subcutaneously the same we he did with his 'vitamin' injections.

 

[International Observer]

Gonna **** Lance off that George is doing a Grand Fondo with Carmichael.

Lance won't follow anyone who uses his training centre.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Good old independent George! I for one can't wait for his book and I sure hope he feels more talkative soon…I would like to hear him explain how the Lemonds are behind the Andreu's pesky campaign.

WTH? You are mixing your story lines in BroDeal's telenovela.
.
The story starts with the Lemonds as some kind of mafia boss orchestrating USADA, American cycling(???) and such. Betsy the willing and compliant assistant is introduced into the telenovela that way. The audience liked the character so much, she got her own story line as a manipulator.

There are more layers to it because the intricacy is very exciting. I see a dramatic sequence in a couple of seasons where Betsy and Lemond are battling for cabal supremecy. Later though.

 

[BroDeal]

I eagerly await RR vociferously denouncing the LeMonds for claiming Andreu was a pusher since both of them testified in the SCA arbitration that Armstrong panicked when he ran of out EPO so he turned to Andreu. Maybe he can denounce Swart for testifying that Andreu was on a program.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Who intimidates him? What is used as leverage? Please be specific.

Please identify possible candidates for the title of "hatchet people." I'm anxiously awaiting your reply.

I know I live in daily fear of Betsy. All those lawyers she's deployed to personally threaten and coerce me, some anonymous joker in some forum. Her coersion is the only reason I don't reveal the truth behind the cabal running the Qui Tam.

WTH is going on with these ridiculous stories?

Silly question, BPC is back, emboldened by a lack of mods and a seeming new ally in Brodeal, he is back with a vengeance and posting up a storm from an undisclosed location in his mother's basement.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Gonna **** Lance off that George is doing a Grand Fondo with Carmichael.

Lance won't follow anyone who uses his training centre.

Fascinating. Tell me some more. Details please! And I'm still waiting for the answers to my previous questions.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

We must remember, doping is not all about learning how to use a needle. Only a rider can tell you the best way to get the best out of the drug, how it works for them, how it builds up in the system. George's real point is merely that Frankie was one of the guys who knew more about EPO than him in those early days.

It must have been very frustrating how things panned out.

Georges real point?
Did you get this from the same movie where you wrote earlier
the "way it was painted, it sounded like there was this big scene where Hincapie explains how he was taught how to dope. Turns out it was a few seconds in a 90 plus minute documentary, blink and you'd miss it"

(Which you did.)

 

[Fatclimber]

Going round and round in an armstrong thread with a WUMer whose join date is today. Come on people, thought you could figure this out by now.

 

[MarkvW]

Max Testa had already shown them how. The riders had been pushing him for information about EPO. He says he was concerned about their safety and gave them information about how to use it and safe doses. He even gave them pamphlets from the manufacture.

George says very clearly that the first time he saw dope was due to Frankie. I think we can all agree that is absurd.

I just looked at 'From Lance to Landis.' It does appear that George is most likely not telling the truth when he says that Frankie "taught him how to use EPO." Testa has said that he was open about the usage of the drug when advising his patients--which included Frankie and George. Extremely unlikely that George would go to Frankie Andreu for EPO dosage advice when he had a doctor available to him.

 

[DirtyWorks]

when he ran of out EPO so he turned to Andreu.

I love how a guy with some PED's becomes the doping godfather merely because he might have had some.

It doesn't work in your telenovela. Frankie's got to be the disciplinarian, ruthless boss, not some doper with a stash.

If you really want to punch it up, have Betsy running the drugs, like that pot dealing Mom cable show a few years ago.

 

[mewmewmew13]

Going round and round in an armstrong thread with a WUMer whose join date is today. Come on people, thought you could figure this out by now.

Pretty sure most figured it out on the first post

I am excited for the book that George is going to write but the movie/telenovela is going to be even better!

 

[DirtyWorks]

I just looked at 'From Lance to Landis.' It does appear that George is most likely not telling the truth when he says that Frankie "taught him how to use EPO." Testa has said that he was open about the usage of the drug when advising his patients--which included Frankie and George. Extremely unlikely that Frankie would go to George Hincapie for EPO dosage advice when he had a doctor available to him.

Shhh!! Don't let corroborating facts get in the way!

 

[BroDeal]

I love how a guy with some PED's becomes the doping godfather merely because he might have had some.

Sorry, you have me mixed up with RR. He is the one using charged language like "pusher" to describe teammates sharing drugs that can can be easily bought from nearby pharmacies. If someone shared their bottle of Walmart bought DHEA, RR would be calling them a pusher also.

 

[mewmewmew13]

I just looked at 'From Lance to Landis.' It does appear that George is most likely not telling the truth when he says that Frankie "taught him how to use EPO." Testa has said that he was open about the usage of the drug when advising his patients--which included Frankie and George. Extremely unlikely that Frankie would go to George Hincapie for EPO dosage advice when he had a doctor available to him.

Most people here agree with you.

 

[Race Radio]

I just looked at 'From Lance to Landis.' It does appear that George is most likely not telling the truth when he says that Frankie "taught him how to use EPO." Testa has said that he was open about the usage of the drug when advising his patients--which included Frankie and George. Extremely unlikely that Frankie would go to George Hincapie for EPO dosage advice when he had a doctor available to him.

Yup, it only makes George's agenda more obvious when he makes claims like that.

I doubt George is happy with how this smear campaign is going, it makes him look foolish. I expect he will back his way out of it with grace and an apology.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I eagerly await RR vociferously denouncing the LeMonds for claiming Andreu was a pusher since both of them testified in the SCA arbitration that Armstrong panicked when he ran of out EPO so he turned to Andreu. Maybe he can denounce Swart for testifying that Andreu was on a program.

Your obsession with RR aside - why would he do that?
The LeMonds testified truthfully, Swart also - they did not pull a story out of thin air, that is the difference .

 

[MarkvW]

Most people here agree with you.

Thanks for taking the time to conduct a poll.

 

[peloton]

I eagerly await RR vociferously denouncing the LeMonds for claiming Andreu was a pusher since both of them testified in the SCA arbitration that Armstrong panicked when he ran of out EPO so he turned to Andreu. Maybe he can denounce Swart for testifying that Andreu was on a program.

Your issue with RR is getting very tiring.

I don't see how anything what Frankie did, no matter how much or not he pushed anyone to dope, has anything to do with the scale Lance did.
Frankie didn't win 7 Tours.
Frankie didn't use cancer as a shield.
Frankie didn't lie to dying cancer patients.
Frankie didn't sue people.
Frankie didn't get millions earned by cheating.

I have no idea why your tone against LA has so drastically changed, but maybe there is a good reason for it.

Lance saying he was treated unfairly, while his rabid fans sent death threats to Tygart??

You have to be kidding me.

 

[Netserk]

snip

Hi Berzin, you're posting in a thread contaminated with BPC (who posted before your post + some of his posts have been deleted, so I think you have noticed it's him), yet you haven't banned him. Why?

Simply mark one of his posts, and use the 'delete as spam' function. That gives you the option to ban him quickly AND to delete all of his posts at once.

Please do that.

 

[aphronesis]

Your issue with RR is getting very tiring.

I don't see how anything what Frankie did, no matter how much or not he pushed anyone to dope, has anything to do with the scale Lance did.
Frankie didn't win 7 Tours.
Frankie didn't use cancer as a shield.
Frankie didn't lie to dying cancer patients.
Frankie didn't sue people.
Frankie didn't get millions earned by cheating.

I have no idea why your tone against LA has so drastically changed, but maybe there is a good reason for it.

Lance saying he was treated unfairly, while his rabid fans sent death threats to Tygart??

You have to be kidding me.

Nice, back to the good german defense.

 

[mewmewmew13]

You're being too literal. He's merely saying Frankie was one of the older guys already using that helped out a bit. He was one of many. George is not saying that Frankie was the only person to teach him how to dope.

I think you're being unfair. Remember the context of why he would mention Frankie. Betsy has painted an incredibly absurd picture which the majority of people on this forum don't really believe if we asked them.

Quote:
MarkvW
"Thanks for taking the time to conduct a poll."

I'm using the International Technique..
you're welcome

 

[International Observer]

I just looked at 'From Lance to Landis.' It does appear that George is most likely not telling the truth when he says that Frankie "taught him how to use EPO." Testa has said that he was open about the usage of the drug when advising his patients--which included Frankie and George. Extremely unlikely that George would go to Frankie Andreu for EPO dosage advice when he had a doctor available to him.

I've already cleared this one up. George's point is not that that Frankie was the first person who showed him how to use a needle. He's merely saying Frankie was one of the more experienced guys on the team who knew how to cycle EPO before he did. There is more to using a drug than learning how to use a needle. George and Landis also shared their knowledge with younger riders and this was in the affidavits. Why would these other riders say this in the affidavits if only the doctors were sought out for advice? Why would they learn things from Hincapie and Landis? There are certain experiences you can get from a rider and friend that you can't get from a doctor. When people cite George's words in this extreme literally sense they are being highly disingenuous. And there is an obvious context to why George would refer to Frankie, because of the myths that are out there.

We also now know George was saying this up to a year ago, so RaceRadio's proposed smear campaign, which also includes paying users of this forum, is bogus. He's lying to you, kids.

 

[International Observer]

Hi Berzin, you're posting in a thread contaminated with BPC (who posted before your post + some of his posts have been deleted, so I think you have noticed it's him), yet you haven't banned him. Why?

Simply mark one of his posts, and use the 'delete as spam' function. That gives you the option to ban him quickly AND to delete all of his posts at once.

Please do that.

Kinda weird. Must be a lot of frustration with how he popped him, censored one post then f*cked off. lol.

Why you guys just love censoring people? You know I'm not breaking the rules. Why can't you take it? To me it shows a weakness in your position.

Some journalists said that the way Armstrong would come down like a ton of bricks on people who asked too many questions only made many smell a rat. They knew there must be something in it.

What do you think it says about you guys that you can't take it? Why the need to silence and smear people who wont toe the line? Is this a discussion forum or a propaganda forum?