Official Lance Armstrong Thread: Part 3 (Post-Confession)

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86TDFWinner

86TDFWinner

Aug 11, 2012
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Lance's word cannot be relied upon.
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LOL, I agree. Anyone that would take any word he says at being even remotely truthful, should seek some kind of help.


It was extremely likely (IMHO 100%) EPO was stealing podiums by 93, and very likely in 92. See Indurain and Chiappucci... By 1994, it's a given the peloton was using EPO.
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Notice the years you've mentioned, that's Big Miggy timeframe. I've brought it up before about our dear friend Miggy, and the very likely chances he was doping, and caught all kinds of hell for it. Nice to see a fellow poster not believing ther hype/myth that Miggy won "clean". Just MO.

Frankie and Scotts denial, still has no more proof than the original accusation itself.
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Well let's see, Frankie and Scott BOTH denied it, Becky has denied it took place as well, that's 3 people's opinions I believe. Yeah, I'll give you "it could've happened" still as you point out, but very very unlikely.
 
W

WinterRider

Jan 29, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
My guess is Lance and I don't think I'm the first one to suggest it.
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My guess too, but since it's out there now, I think Juliet Macur should tell us the source. If it is LA, then I'll happily ignore it.

Why does it matter when a single rider started using EPO? There are much bigger unknowns.
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LA still clings to every shred of sporting credibility he can find. Presuming he has none (ie started doping as a teenaged triathlete is my guess), I would like to see the full extent of his cheating outed.

LA claims he was on "low octane" stuff in 93. I presume this is a lie and I for one would like to see that presumption confirmed if confirmation is available.

Lance's word cannot be relied upon.
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My point exactly! :)

It was extremely likely (IMHO 100%) EPO was stealing podiums by 93, and very likely in 92. See Indurain and Chiappucci... By 1994, it's a given the peloton was using EPO.
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So if it's a given the peloton was on EPO in 94, how did LA stay in contention at LBL?

And at least some of them were using in 93 worlds. I didn't watch them as cycling might as well have not existed in Canada back then, but how did he steal that one from the big time dopers?

Our entire basis for beleiving LA only started using EPO in 95 is his own word. He is known to lie excessively, and he has incentive to lie in order to protect the credibility of his earlier sporting career.

He apparently had one of the peloton's preeminent doping soigners from 92, so how could he not have been using EPO? It does not seem credible that he wasn't.
 
S

skidmark

Mar 13, 2009
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TexPat said:
That is correct, and needs repeating often.
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Yeah, for sure. It's easy to lose sight of that as we've moved firmly into an era where Lance is outed and he's not the all-powerful Empire - when people aren't united against a huge injustice, the quibbling and infighting over smaller details starts to come more into focus. But the bottom line is that everything that has definitively come out from that era shows us enough that it doesn't really matter if Frankie was in on the $50k bribe, or even if he introduced GH to dope (which seems clearly false) - even if true, those small details are nothing more than to satisfy people in a game of 'gotcha'. The point remains that livelihoods were ruined by an uneven playing field, by a whole different drug-arms race going on under the surface of the bike racing world, and Armstrong rode the crest of that wave to drown everyone who pointed out how unfair it was. It's obvious that his fall from grace in the public eye was more because he was an ******* than because he cheated, and it's obvious that he is never going to understand that in a real way.
 
86TDFWinner

86TDFWinner

Aug 11, 2012
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mewmewmew13 said:
quote: 86TDFWinner
"Well let's see, Frankie and Scott BOTH denied it, Becky has denied it took place as well"

"Becky" ^^^^^ :D
i smell autocorrect
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Becky herself somewhere here said she didn't believe it happened even before mentioning that about Frankie and Scott, so i was right to mention her.:p:D
 
N

Nicko.

Jul 15, 2012
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Merckx index said:
So he was taking EPO at least four years before cancer. I'm not surprised, but this deepens the mystery of how he became such a good climber, and a better TTer, after cancer. RR and some others think he was a high responder, and it does appear he has a naturally low HT that would have allowed him to get a larger benefit from EPO than many other riders. But why did the benefit not really become apparent until after cancer? If being a high responder is what enabled him to win all those Tours, why could he do nothing in GC in four tries before cancer? Other alleged high responders, like Ulle and Pantani, seemed to reach their GC potential much sooner. Even Riis was a better climber than Armstrong at that time.

Was it Ferrari? Maybe, but I find it hard to believe that Ferrari + EPO maPde a bigger difference in his GC performance over EPO alone than EPO alone did over no EPO. All EPO seemingly did for him is make him a much better one day racer. For four years. Then boom, suddenly he can climb, not just better, but he goes from a total non-climber to the best in the world. Was Ferrari's program really that good?
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My hypothesisis has long been that the twit had A WEAK MIND that was fueled and driven by anger, insecurity and DRUGS, like a stereotype roid rage bodybuilder.
That "fuel" is good for a day or three, hence the single day race results and the embarrassing 3 week showings... wimp.

The making of a true GT contender (clean era or not...) is a mix of talent, mind, grit and luck... and a volume of accumulated training that is life defining.
He had none of that...

With the cancer treatment came his first true lesson of what 'suffering' can feel like, raw and humbling. Hard lesson. No pain killers.

Post cancer, there was a new level of mind and grit.
Add a perfect cocktail of PEDs (in lieu of talent) and an amazing stretch of luck - voila!
 
N

Nicko.

Jul 15, 2012
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Federations can't help you with crashes, road-rageing motorists, cars, solid objects, cats, injuries or other similar circumstances.
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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Nicko. said:
Federations can't help you with crashes, road-rageing motorists, cars, solid objects, cats, injuries or other similar circumstances.
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How about never testing positive? How about sanctioning riders that leave your team? Let's not forget ASO changing the TdF to better suit Armstrong's preferences. How about calling the head of the federation, to fix things you don't like?

If you learn anything today, it is so much bigger than just Wonderboy doping for a podium. The sport's governing body (national and international) were a fundamental part of the fraud that no other riders seemed to enjoy.
 
N

Nicko.

Jul 15, 2012
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Agreed. And this in no way refutes my hypothesis, which addresses Merckx dilemma.

Edit: his ways with the federations sits squarly in the 'new level of mind (and grit)' cathegory.
 
D-Queued

D-Queued

May 27, 2010
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mewmewmew13 said:
quote: 86TDFWinner
"Well let's see, Frankie and Scott BOTH denied it, Becky has denied it took place as well"

"Becky" ^^^^^ :D
i smell autocorrect
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Autocorrect?

I smell SCA lawyer Jeff Tillotson. Only other person I know to have made that mistake.

We aren't supposed to speculate, but maybe 86TDFWinner is really Tillotson.

Then again, maybe '86 has been spending some time reading Lance's deposition recently.

Dave.
 
Race Radio

Race Radio

Aug 13, 2009
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/cycling/2014/03/04/armstrong-wins-appeal-to-halt-case/6038957/

Lance wins his appeal to temporally pause the SCA case

“The appellate court stayed proceedings while considering their appeal,” said SCA lawyer Jeff Tillotson in an email “This is not terribly unusual. We will file a response with the appellate and are confident that the appeal will be dismissed. More delay and procedural games from Mr. Armstrong. In the end, the result will be the same.”
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mewmewmew13

mewmewmew13

Aug 9, 2010
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D-Queued said:
Autocorrect?

I smell SCA lawyer Jeff Tillotson. Only other person I know to have made that mistake.

We aren't supposed to speculate, but maybe 86TDFWinner is really Tillotson.

Then again, maybe '86 has been spending some time reading Lance's deposition recently.

Dave.
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HA ! if it said 'BeSTY' I would guess it was George
 
86TDFWinner

86TDFWinner

Aug 11, 2012
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D-Queued said:
Autocorrect?

I smell SCA lawyer Jeff Tillotson. Only other person I know to have made that mistake.

We aren't supposed to speculate, but maybe 86TDFWinner is really Tillotson.

Then again, maybe '86 has been spending some time reading Lance's deposition recently.

Dave.
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LOL, no on both......just an average poster, like you.
 
elizab

elizab

Aug 5, 2009
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Granville57 said:
Did they go out of there way to mention Betsy in that article?

Just seemed...unnecessary.


(Unless Betsy controls the Associated Press) :cool:
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Armstrong's Presss has now become Andreu's Press. It took about 10 years, but hey, was Rome built in a year?

Becky (that's Besty to the uneducated)
 
DirtyWorks

DirtyWorks

Feb 10, 2010
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TexPat said:
Hopefully, SCA gets every last cent. Plus a public apology from Herman, Stapleton, Gunderson, et al.
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What?! Right and wrong is measured in dollars to these crooks. Texpat, it's time to find a good lawyer Stateside and
get in there with a case.

Maybe Lionel Hutz is available? Bus bench personal injury lawyer? Be a good Yankee and sue somebody.
 
TexPat

TexPat

May 20, 2010
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DirtyWorks said:
What?! Right and wrong is measured in dollars to these crooks. Texpat, it's time to find a good lawyer Stateside and
get in there with a case.

Maybe Lionel Hutz is available? Bus bench personal injury lawyer? Be a good Yankee and sue somebody.
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As much as I'd like to have some extra dough to send the kids to summer camp, and maybe take a family holiday, I'd rather buck the trend and forego another legal proceeding. Even for sport!
Besides, I'd have to travel back to the US, which is a long way from home.
 
TexPat

TexPat

May 20, 2010
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TexPat said:
As much as I'd like to have some extra dough to send the kids to summer camp, and maybe take a family holiday, I'd rather buck the trend and forego another legal proceeding. Even for sport!
Besides, I'd have to travel back to the US, which is a long way from home.
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Come to think, it would be cool for the aforementioned crooks and criminals to publicly recognise that I was more than a disgruntled employee, and issue an apology to my mother (RIP) who surely rolled over in her grave when they unleashed WWIII on me.
Followed by a large donation to the Suicide Prevention Hotline of my choice.
 
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